US Attack on Pakistani Outpost - What Really Happened

[BATMAN]

US Attack on Pakistani Outpost - What Really Happened

11/27/2011

Bismillah ar-rahman ar-raheem.

Midnight, on the 26th of November, a Pakistan Army post, manned by soldiers from the Azad Kashmir Regiment, detected movement in a valley below and adjacent to their check-post. The checkpoint is 2 km inside Pakistani territory and located on high ground. After identifying the movement as armed individuals via night vision devices, spot light and flares, the soldiers opened fire. Shortly, they came under attack of an AH-64 Apache helicopter, resulting in the loss of 19 lives.

Gleaning from the ISAF press release, it seems that these unidentified individuals were US soldiers infiltrating well into Pakistani territory, without any prior notice to Pakistani counterparts. Furthermore, there is no official operation indicated by the occupation forces, so this was likely a classified operation. The Pakistanis have given coordinates of all Pakistani posts / bases in the region and, given the GPS and other navigation devices available to NATO, it is impossible that the occupation forces did not know that they were: 1) inside Pakistani territory and 2) where this base was located.

This leads to the conclusion that at some point in the past, the US military has received permission to expand the war into Pakistan and to "increase the heat temperature" so to speak.

Continuing with our narrative, the attacked troops called regional command for help, and a quick reaction force was send to aid them. These were then attacked by A-10s of the occupation forces. The battle lasted for at least an hour and resulted in the death of not only the Pakistani forces engaged but also those asleep in the compound. Total death toll stands at 24-28.

Given that the battle lasted that long and that US forces have both coordinates and high tech equipment to note their position, and being aware of the location of the Pakistani base 2km inside Pakistani territory, the attack is obviously deliberate. Given both that the A-10s, which are USAF assets and AH-64s (Army / Marine) assets were involved, this was a predetermined operation aimed, coldly calculated to have specific objects.

An educated guess of those objectives are as follows. The United States want to destabilize Pakistan or to directly confront her. Their supply is well stocked for the winter and they have developed alternative routes to Afghanistan. They now wish to create political space to go into Pakistan. A destabilized Pakistan would allow them this opportunity.

At present, the mood within the Pakistan Army, particularly junior / mid-tier officer ranks would lend credence to the possibility that the US may have achieved its objective. What the rank and file want is a punitive punishment of the US. Kayani cannot accomplish this without losing military procurements and showing that the political establishment has no effective power. On the other hand, if he does not react appropriately, he loses face with his men who are on the verge of a mutiny. This is thus a lose-lose situation for Pakistan and a win-win scenario for the US.

Any Pakistanis reading this would be sincerely advised to calm down, there will be enough time to return the favor to the Americans, insh'Allah. Do not act in haste, do not lose your discipline. Actions should not be taken in haste, calm down, relax. We shall deal with them insh'Allah in a time and location of our choosing and not theirs.

O ye who believe! When ye are told to make room in the assemblies, (spread out and) make room: (ample) room will Allah provide for you. And when ye are told to rise up, rise up Allah will rise up, to (suitable) ranks (and degrees), those of you who believe and who have been granted (mystic) Knowledge. And Allah is well- acquainted with all ye do. (58:11)

When Talut set forth with the armies, he said: "Allah will test you at the stream; if any drinks of its water, he goes not with my army; only those who taste not of it go with me; a mere sip out of the hand is excused.―" But they drank of it, except a few. When they crossed the river― he and the faithful ones with him they said: "This day we cannot cope with Goliath and his forces." But those who were convinced that they must meet Allah, said: "How oft, by Allah's will, hath a small force vanquished a big one? Allah is with those who steadfastly persevere." (2:249)

O ye who believe! Persevere in patience and constancy: vie in such perseverance; strengthen each other; and fear Allah; that ye may prosper. (3:200)

1. By (the Token of) Time (through the ages),
2. Verily Man is in loss,
3. Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.(103)


The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a year)― so ordained by Him the day He created the heavens and the earth; of them four are sacred; that is the straight usage. So wrong not yourselves therein and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together. But know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves. (9:36)

By those who range themselves in ranks. (1) And so are strong in repelling (evil) (37:1-2)

Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure. (61:4)

Nor can Goodness and Evil be equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better: then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate! (41:34)

 

[Awesome]

Source, batman?

 

[pakdefender]

Having a long affliation with the armed forces in one form or another and forever being a well wisher for the armed forces , this time around if there is no action from the top brass I hope that some junior officers take it upon them selves to gun down some NATO/US officals that reguarly come into Pakistan for making this or that demand.

Enough is Enough

 

[Don Jaguar]

Source, batman?

Grande Strategy

 

[livingdead]

Source, batman?

He has kindly given cross references, is not that enough for you?
Here is my source.
http://www.nostradamuspredictions.org/2012-doomsday-predictions-world-war-3-part-1

 

[mrlovepakistan786]

wakup pakistan wakup pakistan

 

[regular]

He has kindly given cross references, is not that enough for you?
Here is my source.
2012 Doomsday Predictions: World War III Part One | Nostradamus Predictions

Sir ! we already know that the Nostradamus predictions are regularly changed and updated by the secret CIA cell...so we don't worry about that B.S.
Anyways this WWIII has been planned by the secret society of the US running the CIA/Pentagon/NSA , MI6 , Mosaad etc etc the list is too long. cuz it runs dozenz of secret chapters/arms worldwide......We already know that the final showdown will be between China plus Pakistan and Russia against US/NATO within next 2 years at most.......
If U want the result of the war I can give U who is the winner and who is the looser????..
its a sincere advice by us to our neighbors don't get fooled by the US/NATO or Israel cuz they might use ure country as a fodder for their war too. Its better for U guyz to packup from Afghanistan as soon as possible before its too late for u guyz and get entrapped within it......

 

[Zenobia]

Oh please.

Afghan soldiers called in deadly NATO airstrike

[from military times, I don't have enough posts yet to post the link but you can Google it]

By Rahim Faiez and Riaz Khan - The Associated Press
Posted : Sunday Nov 27, 2011 10:26:46 EST

PESHAWAR, Pakistan — Afghan troops who came under fire while operating near the Pakistan border called in the NATO airstrikes that allegedly killed 24 Pakistani soldiers at two posts along the frontier, Afghan officials said Sunday.

The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue, said it’s unclear who attacked the Afghan troops before dawn Saturday, but that the soldiers were fired upon from the direction of the Pakistani border posts that were hit in the strikes. The border area where the soldiers were operating contains a mix of Pakistani forces and Islamist militants.

The incident has driven to new lows the United States’ already tattered alliance with Pakistan, a relationship that is vital to winding down the 10-year-old Afghan war. The Pakistan army has said the alleged NATO attack was unprovoked and has insisted there wasn’t militant activity near the border posts in the Mohmand tribal area. Outraged by the strike, Islamabad closed its border to trucks delivering supplies to coalition troops in Afghanistan and demanded the U.S. vacate a base used by American drones within 15 days.

NATO has said it is likely that its aircraft carried out the attack that caused Pakistani casualties and is conducting an investigation to determine the details. The Pakistan-Afghanistan border is disputed and not marked in many areas, adding to the difficulty.

On Sunday, Pakistan army chief Gen. Ashfaq Pervez Kayani attended the funerals of the victims, including a major, as the U.S. sought to minimize fallout from the crisis, which plunged Washington’s already troubled relationship with Islamabad to an all-time low.

The relationship took a major hit after the covert U.S. raid that killed Osama bin Laden in a Pakistani garrison town in May. Pakistan was outraged it wasn’t told about the operation beforehand. The U.S. has been consistently frustrated by Pakistan’s refusal to target militants using its territory to attack American and other NATO troops in Afghanistan.

But there are forces working against a total rupture in the relationship. Pakistan still relies on billions of dollars in American military and civilian aid, and the U.S. needs Islamabad’s help to push Afghan insurgents to engage in peace talks.

Tensions could rise further if militants unleash attacks against hundreds of trucks carrying supplies to U.S.-led forces in Afghanistan that were backed up at Pakistani border crossings Sunday after Islamabad closed the frontier.

Suspected militants destroyed around 150 trucks and injured drivers and police a year ago after Pakistan closed one of its Afghan border crossings to NATO supplies for about 10 days in retaliation for a U.S. helicopter attack that accidentally killed two Pakistani soldiers.

The situation could be more dire this time because Pakistan has closed both its crossings. Nearly 300 trucks carrying coalition supplies are now backed up at Torkham in the northwest Khyber tribal area and Chaman in southwestern Baluchistan province. Last year, Pakistan only closed Torkham.

“We are worried,” said driver Saeed Khan, speaking by telephone from the border terminal in Torkham. “This area is always vulnerable to attacks. Sometimes rockets are lobbed at us. Sometimes we are targeted by bombs.”

Khan and hundreds of other drivers and their assistants barely slept Saturday night because they were worried about potential attacks, he said.

Some drivers said Pakistan had sent paramilitary troops to protect their convoys since the closures, but others were left without any additional protection. Even those who did receive troops did not feel safe.

“If there is an attack, what can five or six troops do? Nothing,” said Niamatullah Khan, a fuel truck driver who was parked with 35 other vehicles at a restaurant about 125 miles (200 kilometers) from Chaman.

NATO ships nearly 50 percent of its non-lethal supplies to its troops in Afghanistan through Pakistan. The trucks are periodically targeted by suspected militants as they travel through the country, and their drivers are sometimes killed.

An official closely involved with the Afghan war said there will likely be no immediate negative effect from Pakistan’s decision to close its border crossings. NATO has built up a large stockpile of military and other supplies that could enable operations to continue at their current level for several months, said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter.

NATO has reduced the amount of non-lethal supplies it ships through Pakistan from a high of around 80 percent by using routes through Central Asia. The northern logistics link could be expanded to make up for the Pakistani closure, but it would leave NATO heavily dependent on Russia at a time when ties with Moscow are increasingly strained.

Some critical supplies, including ammunition, are airlifted directly to Afghan air bases.

Pakistan eventually relented and reopened Torkham last year after the U.S. apologized. But the number of alleged casualties is much higher this time and the relationship between the two countries is much worse.

Pakistani Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar told U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton on Sunday that the alleged NATO attack negated all progress in improving the damaged alliance between the two countries.

She told Clinton in a phone call that the alleged NATO attack was unacceptable, showed complete disregard for human life and sparked rage within Pakistan, according to a press release issued by the Pakistani foreign minister’s office.

Islamabad also protested to the Afghan government, saying it should prevent NATO from using its territory to attack Pakistan, according to another statement from the Pakistani foreign minister’s office.

An Afghan official denounced the protest as “baseless,” saying NATO operates in Afghanistan under a U.N. mandate that is approved by Pakistan. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter.

In addition to closing its border crossings, Pakistan gave the U.S. 15 days to vacate Shamsi Air Base in Baluchistan. The U.S. uses the base to service drones targeting al-Qaida and Taliban militants in Pakistan’s tribal region when they cannot return to their bases inside Afghanistan because of weather conditions or mechanical difficulty, U.S. and Pakistani officials said. They spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive matters.

U.S. officials have expressed their sympathies over the incident and have promised to work closely with Pakistan as NATO carries out its investigation.

NATO’s top official, Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen, offered his “deepest condolences” and said the coalition was committed to working with Pakistan to “avoid such tragedies in the future.”

“We have a joint interest in the fight against cross-border terrorism and in ensuring that Afghanistan does not once again become a safe haven for terrorists,” Rasmussen said in Brussels.

———

Faiez reported from Kabul. Associated Press writers Sebastian Abbot in Islamabad, Abdul Sattar in Quetta, Pakistan, Matiullah Achakzai in Chaman, Deb Riechmann in Kabul, Afghanistan, and Slobodan Lekic in Brussels contributed to this report.

 

[pakdefender]

americans call all the shots in afghanistan , this was thier call now they want to throw the charsi afghan army ( or NATO perhaps ) under the bus that it was thier call.

Make no mistake this was an american act of mass murder of our solidiers while they were at rest for the night in a rear company head quarter.

 

[BATMAN]

I think Pakistan's reaction of blocking supplies was very predictable, alternate options and preparations place ISAF in comfortable position.
I wonder if bharat - NA transit trade might be an alternate supply or do we expect both bharat and NA to not misuse the graant from Pakistan?

 

[VCheng]

I think Pakistan's reaction of blocking supplies was very predictable, alternate options and preparations place ISAF in comfortable position.
I wonder if bharat - NA transit trade might be an alternate supply or do we expect both bharat and NA to not misuse the graant from Pakistan?

The supply routes will be re-opened soon enough.

 

[T-Rex]

US Attack on Pakistani Outpost - What Really Happened

11/27/2011

Bismillah ar-rahman ar-raheem.

Midnight, on the 26th of November, a Pakistan Army post, manned by soldiers from the Azad Kashmir Regiment, detected movement in a valley below and adjacent to their check-post. The checkpoint is 2 km inside Pakistani territory and located on high ground. After identifying the movement as armed individuals via night vision devices, spot light and flares, the soldiers opened fire. Shortly, they came under attack of an AH-64 Apache helicopter, resulting in the loss of 19 lives.

Gleaning from the ISAF press release, it seems that these unidentified individuals were US soldiers infiltrating well into Pakistani territory, without any prior notice to Pakistani counterparts. Furthermore, there is no official operation indicated by the occupation forces, so this was likely a classified operation. The Pakistanis have given coordinates of all Pakistani posts / bases in the region and, given the GPS and other navigation devices available to NATO, it is impossible that the occupation forces did not know that they were: 1) inside Pakistani territory and 2) where this base was located.

This leads to the conclusion that at some point in the past, the US military has received permission to expand the war into Pakistan and to "increase the heat temperature" so to speak.

Continuing with our narrative, the attacked troops called regional command for help, and a quick reaction force was send to aid them. These were then attacked by A-10s of the occupation forces. The battle lasted for at least an hour and resulted in the death of not only the Pakistani forces engaged but also those asleep in the compound. Total death toll stands at 24-28.

Given that the battle lasted that long and that US forces have both coordinates and high tech equipment to note their position, and being aware of the location of the Pakistani base 2km inside Pakistani territory, the attack is obviously deliberate. Given both that the A-10s, which are USAF assets and AH-64s (Army / Marine) assets were involved, this was a predetermined operation aimed, coldly calculated to have specific objects.

An educated guess of those objectives are as follows. The United States want to destabilize Pakistan or to directly confront her. Their supply is well stocked for the winter and they have developed alternative routes to Afghanistan. They now wish to create political space to go into Pakistan. A destabilized Pakistan would allow them this opportunity.

At present, the mood within the Pakistan Army, particularly junior / mid-tier officer ranks would lend credence to the possibility that the US may have achieved its objective. What the rank and file want is a punitive punishment of the US. Kayani cannot accomplish this without losing military procurements and showing that the political establishment has no effective power. On the other hand, if he does not react appropriately, he loses face with his men who are on the verge of a mutiny. This is thus a lose-lose situation for Pakistan and a win-win scenario for the US.

Any Pakistanis reading this would be sincerely advised to calm down, there will be enough time to return the favor to the Americans, insh'Allah. Do not act in haste, do not lose your discipline. Actions should not be taken in haste, calm down, relax. We shall deal with them insh'Allah in a time and location of our choosing and not theirs.

O ye who believe! When ye are told to make room in the assemblies, (spread out and) make room: (ample) room will Allah provide for you. And when ye are told to rise up, rise up Allah will rise up, to (suitable) ranks (and degrees), those of you who believe and who have been granted (mystic) Knowledge. And Allah is well- acquainted with all ye do. (58:11)

When Talut set forth with the armies, he said: "Allah will test you at the stream; if any drinks of its water, he goes not with my army; only those who taste not of it go with me; a mere sip out of the hand is excused.―" But they drank of it, except a few. When they crossed the river― he and the faithful ones with him they said: "This day we cannot cope with Goliath and his forces." But those who were convinced that they must meet Allah, said: "How oft, by Allah's will, hath a small force vanquished a big one? Allah is with those who steadfastly persevere." (2:249)

O ye who believe! Persevere in patience and constancy: vie in such perseverance; strengthen each other; and fear Allah; that ye may prosper. (3:200)

1. By (the Token of) Time (through the ages),
2. Verily Man is in loss,
3. Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.(103)


The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a year)― so ordained by Him the day He created the heavens and the earth; of them four are sacred; that is the straight usage. So wrong not yourselves therein and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together. But know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves. (9:36)

By those who range themselves in ranks. (1) And so are strong in repelling (evil) (37:1-2)

Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure. (61:4)

Nor can Goodness and Evil be equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better: then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate! (41:34)

One can speculate what led to such deadly attack but the fact is 24 Pakistani soldiers are dead and the comrades of the dead soldiers know who has killed them. So, it will be almost impossible for Mr. Ten Percent or his top general to convince the army or the people of Pakistan to continue Pakistan's participation in the so-called WOT. What really matters is what is going to happen after this incident. Most probably a battle line will be drawn by the reluctant Pakistani generals and we can expect expression of solidarity with and against Pakistan.

Turkish FM expresses solidarity with Pakistan | Pakistan | DAWN.COM

 

[BATMAN]

The supply routes will be re-opened soon enough.

Source of info.?

Temporarily transit trade between northern alliance aka ANA and bharart can fill the gap.
We have agreement in place over seen by Gilani & Clinton, so it was ridiculous idea of blocking selective trucks.. aka blocking NATO supply.

afaik........ from beginning, PA have told that supply is blocked temporarily for security reasons.

No where exist ISPR statement that supply is blocked in retaliation or for ever.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

The supply routes will be re-opened soon enough.

Now the only question remains: how soon?

 

[BATMAN]

One can speculate what led to such deadly attack but the fact is 24 Pakistani soldiers are dead and the comrades of the dead soldiers know who has killed them. So, it will be almost impossible for Mr. Ten Percent or his top general to convince the army or the people of Pakistan to continue Pakistan's participation in the so-called WOT. What really matters is what is going to happen after this incident. Most probably a battle line will be drawn by the reluctant Pakistani generals and we can expect expression of solidarity with and against Pakistan.

Turkish FM expresses solidarity with Pakistan | Pakistan | DAWN.COM

Bottom line is PA soldiers on Afghan border are not equipped with SAMs to buy enough time for PAF scramble.
Neither ghadari is willing to allocate separate budget for WOT operations, which require 100% aircover and various squadrons of attack helis.

Every one knows that ghadari's permission would not immediately bring PA soldiers any protection from air raids.
ghadari and his team have done good enough job to keep public engaged in matters of provincial divide, renaming provinces, airports ,memos etc.

---------- Post added at 06:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:10 AM ----------

Now the only question remains: how soon?

I'm also waiting for V-Cheng's answer.