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US Arm Twists India to Buy Patriot-3 Systems And Not Russians S-400

It means nothing.

F-16 was rejected in MMRCA by UPA but is now again part of MMRCA 2.0 by Modi.

UPA rejected LSA but Modi signed it.

UPA rejected CISMOA & BECA but Modi is now signing them.

The F-16 is a participant, not a competitor.

LSA, CISMOA, BECA have nothing to do with the govt but the military. The military/NSA are deciding when to go ahead with these agreements.
 
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India with weak manufacturing industries is at the mercy of American. Kaveri engine fit on LCA is still decades away. American knows that and they are well known to use military supplies to force allies to their submission. India is in no position to bargain with American. Once F404 engine supplied is stopped. LCA is as good as dead.
We can always replace with a Russian alternative like the RD-33 or the Snecma M88. I'm sure IAF is gonna place more orders for the Rafales through which we can take the assistance of French to fastrack the development of Kaveri
 
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Indian Defence News
Monday, June 18, 2018
By: The Citizen

Source Link: CLICK HERE

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Late last year, the Iran-supported Houthi rebels in Yemen fired a Burqan-2 missile (a Scud variant) aimed at the international airport in Riyadh some 600 miles to the northeast. The missile got to its target alright but due to the strains in the metal canister induced by the flight, blew apart with the debris littering parts of the runway and the road outside the airport.

The Saudis, however, claimed that they had fired five Patriot advanced capability (PAC-3) interceptor at the intruder and had destroyed the Houthi Burqan.

US President Donald Trump visiting Saudi Arabia not long after that event crowed, “Our system knocked the missile out of the air. That’s how good we are. Nobody makes what we make, and now we’re selling it all over the world.”

Trump is a loud, less than, credible snake oil salesman at the best of times. As promoter of the PAC-3 he is eminently ignorable, as is any US official urging friendly countries to buy this air defence system whose worldwide publicity is far better than its performance.

Except, and this is a kicker, an analysis by air defence experts of the debris distribution and of the parts of the Burqan system that the Saudis proudly displayed days after the attack, came to the conclusion, as reported in the American press, that the incoming missile had come apart by itself at the end of its trajectory and, more shocking still to Trump Admin officials, the Pentagon, and Raytheon — the maker of the Patriot, that all the five PAC-3 interceptors the Saudis fired had missed the target!

Last month Tina Kaidanow, principal deputy assistant secretary of the US State Department’s Political-Military Affairs Bureau, came to Delhi on a triple-pronged mission — to press Delhi to sign the remaining two “foundational” agreements — COMCASA and BECA as follow up to the LSA; and to prevent India signing up to buy the Russian counterpart of the PAC-3, the S-400, for $5 billion; and to persuade the Modi government to buy instead the American product, PAC-3, that doesn’t work.

While Kaidanow’s visit wasn’t reported by the Indian media, External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj’s statement that India would go in for the Russian item even if it attracted US sanctions under the 2018 Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, was.

Apparently, the US State Dept official’s muffled threat of CAATSA did not work, nor did it “engender a willingness” on the part of the Indian government to think about the US PAC-3 system as replacement. And as regards COMCASA and BECA she was told nothing she could be reassured by.

“As a function of trying to move the defense relationship forward — and certainly the defense trade relationship — it is important that those foundational agreements are considered by the Indian government, they are acted on hopefully as expeditiously as possible,” Kaidanow told the Washington defence media. “Of course it is their sovereign right to decide on these things, but our hope is that we have presented to them some good options and some ways forward. Hopefully we can make some progress in that relatively soon.”

And pertaining to the F-16 and perhaps also the PAC-3, she said “American defense product is great product — it is the best in the world. It’s central that countries really think about when they acquire these things — and particularly when we’re talking about important systems … — that they think about the quality and the interoperability piece and all of the things that we know come with the acquisition of American products.”

Kaidanow is right. Buying military goods from the US comes with lot of attached baggage and just too many do’s and don’t’s, inclusive of the uncertainty attending on the spares supply, which can be stopped at any time on Congressional whim and an Administration’s fancy. And worst of all, the PAC-3 does not work as advertised.

Whether Prime Minister Narendra Modi is convinced about the cons outweighing the pros or not, the political scene at home tilting against him suggests his government is unlikely during the remainder of its first term at least to sign any accords, or buy anything big from America, let alone nix the S-400 deal, go in for the PAC-3, and permanently turn Russia into an enemy.

http://www.defencenews.in/article/U...triot-3-Systems-And-Not-Russians-S-400-558914

indii
I don‘t think PAC-3 is better. the only advantage PAC-3 over S400 is weight and dimension.
india need to buy david sling
 
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The F-16 is a participant, not a competitor.

Yes it is a participant and competing with other offers.

LSA, CISMOA, BECA have nothing to do with the govt but the military. The military/NSA are deciding when to go ahead with these agreements.

Military is part of the government.

Military rejected when UPA was in power but is silent now as Modi signs these agreements.

Yes, as you have pointed out, it is now a matter of "When" these would be signed by Modi not "Why". That explains.
 
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India with weak manufacturing industries is at the mercy of American. Kaveri engine fit on LCA is still decades away. American knows that and they are well known to use military supplies to force allies to their submission. India is in no position to bargain with American. Once F404 engine supplied is stopped. LCA is as good as dead.
You will be happy to know that India already has a stock of more than 100 F404. There is nothing US can do to stop the supply.
And in 2007, india ordered and received F414 engines.
 
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Yes it is a participant and competing with other offers.

Mere participants don't win, competitors win.

Military is part of the government.

Military rejected when UPA was in power but is silent now as Modi signs these agreements.

Yes, as you have pointed out, it is now a matter of "When" these would be signed by Modi not "Why". That explains.

It's all about how convenient it is at the time of signature.

LEMOA is extremely advantageous to India. It's simply adding a credit system to an already existing system. With the signature of LEMOA, we can get supplies on credit, nothing special beyond that. It doesn't affect our security and we get access to a lot of bases around the world. We have recently signed such an agreement with France also.

BECA is fine. It's only an agreement to share geospatial data. But it's pointless to us. It only helps those who don't have space programs and other surveillance assets.

CISMOA is highly restrictive. Two main constraints are we can't co-develop/co-produce comm equipment and the intrusive nature of using the comm equipment. The military decides how much this will affect us.

For example, we need our P-8s to communicate with their ships and other aerial and space assets. But we don't need it on our tanks and fighter jets, we can use our own stuff there. So the military decides how much it will restrict us. We will obviously use our own stuff, that's the priority.

If stuff that we do not like are removed, then there is no reason not to sign these agreements. If that stuff is not removed, then the military will simply not use their equipment even if we do sign the CISMOA. Basically, what this means is, signing CISMOA will likely be pointless since India will not use American comm equipment anyway.

The IA and IAF don't care about interoperability with the US. And even the IN is not as interested in it, they don't see the QUAD as a military alliance either.

You obviously don't know it, but the ones who are against signing the CISMOA are the military itself. So you can expect them to not put it into practice even if the agreement is signed.
 
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The IA and IAF don't care about interoperability with the US. And even the IN is not as interested in it, they don't see the QUAD as a military alliance either.

Yeah. Military does not care and does not want but Modi would still go ahead and sign them. Wonderful.

You obviously don't know it, but the ones who are against signing the CISMOA are the military itself. So you can expect them to not put it into practice even if the agreement is signed.

Instead of Modi manning up and not signing away India's sovereignty, instead you expect Military to take that responsibility of not making it operational? Pathetic.
 
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Yeah. Military does not care and does not want but Modi would still go ahead and sign them. Wonderful.

Instead of Modi manning up and not signing away India's sovereignty, instead you expect Military to take that responsibility of not making it operational? Pathetic.

The point is the military decides, not Modi.

Defence agreements are not signed without the military's clean chit.
 
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The point is the military decides, not Modi.

Defence agreements are not signed without the military's clean chit.

Military in no uncertain terms has issued statements opposing the signing of the agreements while Modi has made it very clear that he going to sign the agreements. Meaning Modi is overruling Military's advise/opinion.
 
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Military in no uncertain terms has issued statements opposing the signing of the agreements while Modi has made it very clear that he going to sign the agreements. Meaning Modi is overruling Military's advise/opinion.

Proof.
 
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India will bow to US pressure. Just wait and see. All this tough talk has no meaning.

India will also have to opt for F-16. Consider it as a deal sweetener LOL
 
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Of this statement:
Meaning Modi is overruling Military's advise/opinion.

No CISMOA, No Problem: IAF Chief
Shiv AroorOct 15 2010 10 06 am


I asked Indian Air Force chief Air Chief Marshal PV Naik today about his position on the uncertainty over whether or when India will sign the contentious Communciations Interoperability & Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) with the United States. He had a crisp, short reply: “The government asked us for our opinion on the matter. We have informed the government that [not signing the CISMOA] will not make a substantial difference as far as our operational capability is concerned.”
I’ve posted here about what the IAF doesn’t get on its brand new C-130Js as a direct consequence of not signing the CISMOA. I’ll be posting soon on how the IAF plans to fill those gaps.


https://www.livefistdefence.com/2010/10/no-cismoa-no-problem-iaf-chief.html
 
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