US aid to Pakistan diverted, squandered: report

[IceCold]

Despite the vast funds flowing to Pakistan, a US official visiting the border recounted finding members of the country's frontier corps "standing there in the snow in sandals."

Several soldiers were wearing World War I-era pith helmets and had battered Kalashnikov rifles with only 10 rounds of ammunition each, the official said.

Let me point our some of the BS mentioned here in this article and also to prove my point how bias western media is.

1) Frontier corps standing in there sandals, if only they could have done their homework a little better, they would have known that frontier corps doesnt wear sandals because pakistan cannot provide them with army boots but instead its a part of their dress code. They wear shalwar kameez and beneath it a chapal. This is also linked to the tradition in all of the frontier which they represent.

2) As for the kalashnikov, they are still considered the very best in terms of both fire power and reliability. The capacity of the magazine is 30 rounds. So if we go by the artice which says only 10 rounds this means that we are not even giving our soilders a full magazine of ak-47. What BS is this. Its the PA we are talking about not some rag tag militants of congo that cannot provide their soilders with even a full magazine. Somehow common sense doesnt seem to accept it, but i guess common sense has nothing to do when it comes to propoganda about pakistan.

 

[TexasJohn]

Just look at the list of the newspapers that come up with rubbish like this on daily basis against pakistan and then check how many of them are jewish.[/COLOR]

Answer this one very simple question objectivly.

How did you conclude that these newspapers are "jewish"? Do you have any data to substantiate this? ANY at all?

Which ones are "jewish" then? Can you tell me? Please show me how YOU "checked" that they are!!

 

[MastanKhan]

Ice cold,

It is a part and parcel of the obsolete mentality that frontier corps men wear chappals and shalwar kamiz as their uniform--tradition it maybe---but to a viewer and for all practical purposes they look pathetic, poor, undisciplined, under dressed and not ready for combat.

Analyze this chappal mentality on the foot of a full time warrior and see where it fits on the feet of the world armies. You want to go into combat zone in chappals-----next time look at the feet of 'TALIBAN' fighters---some of them will have full boots if they had killed a soldier and others would have joggers type shoes. They will have long socks and younger taliban would have the bottom of their shalwar tucked into the socks so that it does not become a hazard in movement during combat and gives them more mobility.

Bottom line is that the uniform is p i s s poor and pathetic in design, approach and DURABILITY. THE MOST IMPORTANT ASSETS OF A SOLDIER ARE HIS FEET. What are you going to do if you have to walk in snow, or have to walk in mud and rain on in sand. Frozen feet, cold feet, wet socks, dirt in the feet an irritant, unstable chappals, broken strap---a huge laundry list.

Pakistani millitary is having a very hard and difficult time in adjusting to a world class standard for its defence forces---it is the problem with the learning curve and adaptation to new and acceptable----I mean to say---this great technological wonder that we call our engineers----look at the guy riding in the back of a frontier force truck with a machine gun---this guy does not have an attachment built to mount on the truck frame---instead this guy has the machine gun tied to the top of the frame with a rope- talk about ingenuity.

 

[Munir]

Some people can only write harsh words... They even compare western standards with Pakistani... All I can see is empty post with remarks. About those pickups... Well they seem to be the best transport system cause its lasts very well in the deser area and can cope with almost everything. Try to drive around with Humvee or other exotic weapons and we will talk again... About the machine gun and rope.... I doubt that fixed system will do much better accept you have the problems with heat, sand, movements... It is simple yet cheap. You cans ee how well top armed soldiers do in Irac or Afghanistan... Not that much better...

 

[Neo]

Sure... but do it on your own dime; not on somebody elses.

WoT rings a bell? Nothing for free mate, US is getting lot more she bargained for.

Btw, new the F-16's are paid for.

 

[Energon]

WoT rings a bell? Nothing for free mate, US is getting lot more she bargained for.

Btw, new the F-16's are paid for.

I have no problem with paying somebody for a specified service; but I don't believe it's worthwhile use of my tax dollars to pay somebody to re-arm themselves when those funds are meant for another objective. If the money isn't being spent appropriately on the main objective then it's a waste and should be cut off ASAP.

Not all the F-16s have been paid for. Some are being transferred as part of an aid package.

 

[MastanKhan]

Munir,

Read the post again. It has nothing to do with the pickups and their quality. The only thing I talked about was the machine gun mounts.

When you get angry at someones post, don't let the emotions clowd what you are reading. Next time you are in combat---try walking with those chappals in snow or rain soaked mud and try chasing the enemy on your feet all day long and then let us know how it feels.

When you have your nation and your army, you don't need any mechanized vehicles either---because heat, sand and movement would destroy the equipment.

So, for your army---you would be better of with mules, horses and camels. And by the way, those automatic weapons also have moving parts----maybe you could revert back to sword, knife, bow and arrow type of warfare.

These are not my word only---all the world is talking about pakistan squandering away the money when they look at the condition of the frontier force troops. Pakistanis can only fool pakistanis by justifying ---yeah Frontier Force---this is how they are dressed---the world is saying no---this is not the image of a trained para millitary force---that is chasing the taliban militia----this looks like a ragtag para millitary force.

The first and foremost part of a soldiers equipment are his boots---regardless of which part of millitary and para millitary force he is with---and they are not western standards---what do you think---a soldier in the nigerian army is told that his fotwear is----you got to walk without shoes----tribal nigerians don't wear shoes----or a soldier in the latin american armies are told---well the native tribals don't wear any shoes---so you should also not wear any---as a matter of fact we don't have any shoes for you. Just wrap some leaves and weeds around your feet.

Reminds of the late 80's---all the washington was a buzz about sanctions coming down on pakistan----the only people who were walking around with no care were the people of the pakistani foreign office and pakistani government---and their patent response was---nothing will happen to us---we got control of everything---sanctions is just a propaganda. And when the sanctions hit---they acted as if it was today's news and blamed the americans for that. Things just keep going round and round---and the learning experience is just an excuse.

 

[khanz]

They should give aid instead to build schools,hospitals,education and infrastructure and help pump money into the local economy in the frontier areas.I bet that socio-economic development would help their wot far more than aid for weapons aswell as help improve for america's image.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I think Mastan Khan has a point.

Possibly when people did not wear shoes and instead walked barefoot, the feet was hardened and also seasoned by the weather to withstand every thing.

These days where everyone wears footwear, irrespective of the economic status, walking barefoot is not that comfortable. Sandals are more prone to tearing than standard military footwear. If a soldier or para military is chasing a terrorist and his sandal gives way, that would be the happiest situation for the terrorist.

In so far as the transport is concerned, ruggedised vehicles especially the chassis, should be perfect. The Toyota pick ups seem to be very popular in Afghanistan and NWFP, if one goes by the pictures. If they have been successful in such terrain, then there should be no complaints as far as being a mode to ferry troops. The only drawback is that it does not have protection, but then in terrorist infested areas, one has to be able to act almost immediately.

Weapon systems are prone to weather, terrain and environmental hazards. No matter what the weapon be, it has to be maintained regularly or there will be stoppages, which in a critical moment, can cause immense problems in the fulfilment of the mission. It is also true that the weapon system should have a stabilised platform if mounted on a vehicle.

 

[IceCold]

Ice cold,

It is a part and parcel of the obsolete mentality that frontier corps men wear chappals and shalwar kamiz as their uniform--tradition it maybe---but to a viewer and for all practical purposes they look pathetic, poor, undisciplined, under dressed and not ready for combat.

Analyze this chappal mentality on the foot of a full time warrior and see where it fits on the feet of the world armies. You want to go into combat zone in chappals-----next time look at the feet of 'TALIBAN' fighters---some of them will have full boots if they had killed a soldier and others would have joggers type shoes. They will have long socks and younger taliban would have the bottom of their shalwar tucked into the socks so that it does not become a hazard in movement during combat and gives them more mobility.

Bottom line is that the uniform is p i s s poor and pathetic in design, approach and DURABILITY. THE MOST IMPORTANT ASSETS OF A SOLDIER ARE HIS FEET. What are you going to do if you have to walk in snow, or have to walk in mud and rain on in sand. Frozen feet, cold feet, wet socks, dirt in the feet an irritant, unstable chappals, broken strap---a huge laundry list.

Pakistani millitary is having a very hard and difficult time in adjusting to a world class standard for its defence forces---it is the problem with the learning curve and adaptation to new and acceptable----I mean to say---this great technological wonder that we call our engineers----look at the guy riding in the back of a frontier force truck with a machine gun---this guy does not have an attachment built to mount on the truck frame---instead this guy has the machine gun tied to the top of the frame with a rope- talk about ingenuity.

Sir the impression i'm getting from your post is that traditions and heritage should be kept out of scenario because they dont matter at all. If i recall correctly pakistan army is based on its rich tradition based on the cultural impact of the subcontinent. They dont look pathetic, however i do agree with you that they look un prepared. But its not beacuse they wear shalwar kameez or a peshwari chapal, instead if we deeply analyze the situation we'll see that uptill now they were not meant for counter insurgentci operations, they were a border patrol force and that they were performing well. However when it comes to fight against the tailbans, we should not forget that this force meant for border patrol cannot just change their role in one day. Besides as for the equipment we must also see what is there at their disposal when it comes to fight against a force that is euipped with heavier weapons.

1) They dont have tanks and infentory vechiles
2) They cannot call for an airsupport
3) They dont have the artillery for fire support to suppress the enemy
Consider all of these factors and then keep in mind the odds they are up against.
As for the tailbans, they neither have any culture nor tradition, they are mere fighters whos purpose is just to kill and grab their hand on whatever they can get, you cant compare them with an army with such rich heritage such as the PA.
However i do agree with the part that i have highlighted and underlined. As i've said that FC doesnt have proper infantory vechiles and this is also one of the primarly reason for high number of casulties that they have suffered in the past in those pickup trucks.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Sir the impression i'm getting from your post is that traditions and heritage should be kept out of scenario because they dont matter at all. If i recall correctly pakistan army is based on its rich tradition based on the cultural impact of the subcontinent. They dont look pathetic, however i do agree with you that they look un prepared. But its not beacuse they wear shalwar kameez or a peshwari chapal, instead if we deeply analyze the situation we'll see that uptill now they were not meant for counter insurgentci operations, they were a border patrol force and that they were performing well. However when it comes to fight against the tailbans, we should not forget that this force meant for border patrol cannot just change their role in one day. Besides as for the equipment we must also see what is there at their disposal when it comes to fight against a force that is euipped with heavier weapons.

1) They dont have tanks and infentory vechiles
2) They cannot call for an airsupport
3) They dont have the artillery for fire support to suppress the enemy
Consider all of these factors and then keep in mind the odds they are up against.
As for the tailbans, they neither have any culture nor tradition, they are mere fighters whos purpose is just to kill and grab their hand on whatever they can get, you cant compare them with an army with such rich heritage such as the PA.
However i do agree with the part that i have highlighted and underlined. As i've said that FC doesnt have proper infantory vechiles and this is also one of the primarly reason for high number of casulties that they have suffered in the past in those pickup trucks.

I totally agree with you...

But fighting a war and a civil war sort of thing is different. Most people seem to not understand the fact that you can not go dancing in a populated area with guns and tanks and infantry to kill all, bomb all. You have to take care for the people who are not involved and for that reason in situations like Swat etc. there will always be Security forces fatalities because you are to engage to an attacking force within the ranks of civilian people. It is not like you go to Mingora and start killing everyone from the start of city primisis. Please understand that not only weapon requirements are the issue but the need for civilians to understand that they should help the PA is also iminent. Care to think how long these talibans could last If PAF starts carpeting the whole Tribal regions in which they are hiding.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Pakistani Response to the reports....




WASHINGTON: Pakistan Ambassador to US, Mahmud Ali Durrani, while expressing his disappointment on the US newspaper report relating to the utilization of the funds received for anti-terrorism, termed it a pack of lies.

In an interview to a US TV Channel, Pakistan Ambassador to US grieved on the allegations made in the US newspaper report said that these allegations have been hurled at a time, when Pakistan at its Afghan border was engaged in making all out efforts in combating terrorism. He said that these accusations were baseless and there was not an iota of truth in it.

Former US Defense Minister, William Cohen on this occasion said that the US needed Pakistan for tackling terrorism and extremism in the region and President Musharraf was the key-ally in war against terrorism.


Link:

Report on use of anti-terror US funding baseless: Mahmud Durrani