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US: a Friend or Foe?

I think of the Americans as very hostile backstabbers instead of allies. My views are summed up here. A little moderated for international press and World standards and of course to appeal to American audiences.

And kakgeta, the Presler amendment while of course India went for nuclear weapons at the same time and conducted the smiling Budha test in 72 without any American sanctions is just a small part of the growing rage against the country. Thats leaving the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki that killed 220000 people, funny the same country thinks it can control World nuclear armament

I don't have to type things over and over every time. Here is my view summed up:

The growing agitation of Pakistanis against USA
January 13, 2010

A recent survey conducted by Pew Global Attitudes (a project of a research center in Washington) in Pakistan has proven that the 64% of the people of Pakistan despise the USA and see it as one of the greatest threats to Pakistan. On the other hand only about 9% believe that the US can ever be Pakistan’s allies. However 70% of the Pakistanis who were questioned are absolutely against the Taliban and seek their utter elimination. Another survey conducted for the international broadcaster Al Jazeera by Gallup Pakistan found that 59 percent of Pakistanis felt the greatest threat to the country was the United States rather than the Taliban.

As the report suggests Pakistanis despise the USA but do not side with the Taliban or Al Qaeda. Generally Pakistanis view them unfavourably but they see both of them as two sides of the same coin.

Unfortunately the Americans cannot come to understand why Pakistanis see them as their foremost enemy rather than the terrorists. On the other hand Pakistanis feel they have been constantly betrayed despite seeing the Americans as allies. They believe they have been used to accomplish USA’s strategic goals and interests in the region and then abandoned.

A look at history

The Taliban were formed, supported and funded by the USA in the 1980’s in order to drive away the Soviets from Afghanistan and offset the defeat they suffered to the Communists in the Vietnam War. According to newly opened CIA files USA wanted the Soviets to intervene in Afghanistan and aid was being transferred to Anti communist elements since July 1979 which was before the Soviets had officially invaded.

Pakistan was not always keen to join the war and did so upon USA’s insistence. Sources even claim that Zia Ul Haq did not want to get involved in the war but many promises of opening up military and economic assistance were offered to President Zia by American diplomats for joining the war. This and the promise of a long lasting relationship with the USA convinced Pakistanis.

However by directly interfering in neighbouring Afghanistan on the behest of American urging Pakistan suffered over 120 incidents of terrorism which killed many citizens. One such bombing was the Islamabad depot bombings were blamed on Najibullah’s government. USA suffered no losses as they had no troops on the ground and were too far away from the region.

Not surprisingly when the war was over Pakistan was not needed and the country was abandoned. In 1990 military and economic ties were cut off with Pakistan under the Presler Amendment which required proof that Pakistan did not possess a nuclear weapon.

Unfortunately the fact that America itself has one of the largest stockpiles of nuclear weapons in the World and is the only Nation to have used them is ignored when talking about the nuclear aspirations of other Nations.

Pakistan’s Nuclear Tests

India conducted its first surprise nuclear test in 1974 known as the “Smiling Buddha.” USA turned a blind eye to the first test but India’s second test in 1998 which followed a similar test by Pakistan almost immediately received international condemnation. Initially sanctions were imposed on both India and Pakistan.

However after a few months the sanctions on India were removed while those on Pakistan remained. Certain military sanctions specially relating to nuclear technology continue till today however no such sanctions are being imposed on India. The differential treatment annoys Pakistanis as India has 10 times Pakistan’s population and is much larger than Pakistan. The military as well is larger than Pakistan’s own.

Furthermore Pakistanis can also not understand why USA signed a nuclear deal with India but is not willing to sign the exact same deal with Islamabad which has sent clear signals that it wants a peaceful nuclear deal with the USA for power generation purposes. Pakistan is facing crippling power shortages that are affecting the daily life of its citizens. In major cities people have to make do without 4-8 hours of electricity in a day.

The relationship today

Americans believe that the aid they are giving Pakistan in the War on Terror is more than enough and is a message to Pakistan to forget the past and move on. However what they don’t seem to understand is that the losses of Pakistan in the WOT have crossed $35.5 Billion in damages to Pakistan (These figures are from January 2009 and the figure may now be more than 48 Billion). The aid does not compensate Pakistan for the losses given that $11 Billion is not even a quarter of this figure.

To aggravate things further much of the aid given to Pakistan has still not been delivered and much of it will be eaten up by the administrative costs of the USA.

In addition the Americans have expressed no sympathy for the 8000 Pakistani civilians and 2000 soldiers killed in a highly unpopular war but have always pushed Pakistan to do more as if it were their colony.

Many Pakistanis as a result believe that USA is supporting terrorism in their country. The fact that the US has released several Taliban commanders from its custody such as Abdullah Mehsud who have attacked Pakistani Nationals soon after their release has further supported this belief. The latest addition to the long list of such commanders is Mehdi-Mohammed Ghazali who was captured in Pakistan recently and is a Swedish National released from Guantanamo Bay.

The American media has a way of aggravating the situation and pouring salt to the fresh wounds of the Nation. The baseless suggestion that Pakistani nukes may fall in the hands of terrorists only fuels rage and in turn is seen as a scheme to take possession of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons. On the other hand the constant campaigns of accusations aimed at Pakistan’s premier intelligence agency the ISI and the military are seen as an attempt to isolate and destroy the military and ISI so that it cannot stop CIA’s designs in the region.

When it is stated that Pakistan is not serious in the War on Terror despite the death of thousands of its own people it also fuels Anti Americanism. The Pakistanis have now become even more suspicious of the USA because of these media campaigns.

Due to the American policies towards Pakistan in the past and those that still continue today many Pakistanis simply see the terrorist organizations as American agents. For the majority of Pakistanis the USA and Taliban are basically two sides of the same coin.

Can US-Pakistani ties ever develop?

The very attitude of the USA towards Pakistan leaves lingering resentment and rage amongst Pakistanis. It does nothing but make terrorist organizations more powerful.

Where yesterday only a section of the population believed no productive ties could ever develop between Pakistan and USA today this phenomenon is noticeable even amongst the moderates as they see the USA as their sworn enemy.

USA’s foreign policy is based on egotism and to protect their self interest the Americans are willing to cross any limit. For Pakistan it is the moment to take a tougher stance with the USA and design a policy that is in turn beneficial to the Nation.

Most Pakistanis are already suggesting that either the Pakistanis take a tougher stance towards the USA and demand to be treated with the respect they deserve or withdraw from the War completely declaring themselves neutral to both the USA and the Afghan Taliban.

Whatever the case it is high time for Pakistan to present itself on an equal footing as the USA otherwise it will continue to be taken for granted and will be used and abandoned as has been the case in the past. Pakistan cannot have a relationship with the USA where Pakistan’s sovereignty itself is lost. After all Pakistan is not a colony but an Independent Nation.


The growing agitation of Pakistanis against USA Pakistan Nationalist Association
 
u.s needs pak.when there needs frm pak will be over,they will definitely turn against pak.it's upto pak,how to keep them in under use.
 
america is certainly an enemy. since the time of independence it has used and abused pakistan. US aid is nothing but a blackmail. unfortunately our so called leaders have their bank accounts in western so they dance like puppets on US's directions. everyone knows US works on zionists' agenda. they didnt even listen to their own people to stop the war against iraq, how can they be sincere to us then?

With friends like Pakistan the USA does not need enemies.
Pakistan can be an allie of the USA against terrorism or they can side with the taliban. Thats up to Pakistan, the USA can not make the decision for Pakistan. If Pakistan thinks its in their best interest to side with Americas enemies so be it. But if think life is tough now, think what its going to be like when Pakistan is treated like N. Korea and Iran.
 
Turkey is a FRIEND.

---------- Post added at 05:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:40 PM ----------



It would be better if I did not respond to this post.:hitwall::hitwall::hitwall:

ya u forgot hillary clintons warning last month,should i post it.frnds dont give this type of warnings.this is truth whether u accept it or not.
 
With friends like Pakistan the USA does not need enemies.
Pakistan can be an allie of the USA against terrorism or they can side with the taliban. Thats up to Pakistan, the USA can not make the decision for Pakistan. If Pakistan thinks its in their best interest to side with Americas enemies so be it. But if think life is tough now, think what its going to be like when Pakistan is treated like N. Korea and Iran.

This is a direct threat but we already feel isolated like Iran is. You only come to us to order us or tell us what you want.

The sponsorship of the Taliban in fact the very creation of this movement is a brainchild of the USA so blaming the World for it will change nothing nor will using Pakistan as a scapegoat. I would like to remind you that it was your country and your CIA that created the Taliban and Al Qaeda to see a soviet defeat. No matter how much u show it was the northern alliance our records and ur own records now forced to be made public show clearly who u supported just to see a Soviet defeat and how you used Pakistan for your gains and Afghanistan as your battleground in your lust to defeat communism.

Typically u have tried everything to push us and have your way but someday we're going to snap. U're pushing the limit.

And at least Iran is living honorably with its head raised standing for what it believes in. Our corrupt politicians taking orders from you despite our national interest haven't even left us that honor. Our damages are more than our benefit in this war which started because USA could not understand the World and because of its actions in the past.

The Taliban and USA are the same thing. Both are brutal beyond imagination. This war is futile and causing you to be hated. Go home. Ur troops will die, their families will cry and u'll kill thousands of innocents in Iraq and Afghanistan whose next generation will 20 years later no doubt hate you and want to kill you. Go home. We can't tell u this in any other way. The taliban use the fact that USA is here to get support and commit acts of violence while u use the taliban. It will never end.

Help us with education, help us by improving out conditions and don't interfere in our business, don't show your hypocrisy and double standards where u can use nukes and kill 220000 civilians while another nation can't even posses them and let us decide our own future. That way we will be fine and you might even end up being liked than so viciously hated.
 
This is a direct threat but we already feel isolated like Iran is. You only come to us to order us or tell us what you want.

The sponsorship of the Taliban in fact the very creation of this movement is a brainchild of the USA so blaming the World for it will change nothing nor will using Pakistan as a scapegoat. I would like to remind you that it was your country and your CIA that created the Taliban and Al Qaeda to see a soviet defeat. No matter how much u show it was the northern alliance our records and ur own records now forced to be made public show clearly who u supported just to see a Soviet defeat and how you used Pakistan for your gains and Afghanistan as your battleground in your lust to defeat communism.

Typically u have tried everything to push us and have your way but someday we're going to snap. U're pushing the limit.

And at least Iran is living honorably with its head raised standing for what it believes in. Our corrupt politicians taking orders from you despite our national interest haven't even left us that honor. Our damages are more than our benefit in this war which started because USA could not understand the World and because of its actions in the past.

The Taliban and USA are the same thing. Both are brutal beyond imagination. This war is futile and causing you to be hated. Go home. Ur troops will die, their families will cry and u'll kill thousands of innocents in Iraq and Afghanistan whose next generation will 20 years later no doubt hate you and want to kill you. Go home. We can't tell u this in any other way. The taliban use the fact that USA is here to get support and commit acts of violence while u use the taliban. It will never end.

Help us with education, help us by improving out conditions and don't interfere in our business, don't show your hypocrisy and double standards where u can use nukes and kill 220000 civilians while another nation can't even posses them and let us decide our own future. That way we will be fine and you might even end up being liked than so viciously hated.

Religious extremism in Afghanstan and Pakistan created the Taliban, not the USA, the USA along with Pakistan used the Taliban to defeat the USSR, Pakistan has as much blood or more on its hands then the USA. The Pakistan Military and Secret Services have been in bed with the Taliban since the beginning and still are.

Now it seems as Pakistan is willing to surrender to the Taliban regardless of the fact that thousands and thousands of Pakistans have been murdered in cold blood by the Taliban.

I notice the fact that Pakistan continually create justifications for terrorism. Most Americans find the idea of getting on a bus, going into a café, or walking into a mall with explosives on you, and blowing up innocent men, women and children into little bits, the most cowardly and despicable type of evil, that currently exists on earth. Because so few other victimized or oppressed groups in the world have so embraced this war tactic, Americans usually conclude Islam is a special kind of evil.

Another fact you might want to consider the Afgans cant really fight, they are pretty good murders of innocent helpless people but the fact is the USA took out the Taliban Goverment, and Military and occupied Afghanstan for over 7 years now with the loss of only 1000 soldiers.

Now the day may come when the USA leaves that part of the world but leaves thousands of drones behind...murdering innocent americans in cold blood by the 1000s is never going to get any one any thing but destruction and death.
 
I have only one thing to say here

“Enemies make you stronger, allies make you weaker.” -Frank Herbert
 
Religious extremism in Afghanstan and Pakistan created the Taliban, not the USA, the USA along with Pakistan used the Taliban to defeat the USSR, Pakistan has as much blood or more on its hands then the USA. The Pakistan Military and Secret Services have been in bed with the Taliban since the beginning and still are.

Incorrect, "Give em guns and an ideology and let them solve the rest", these words were not said by a religious scholar or a mullah, the Afghan Mujahideen were strategic assets and although Pakistan is also responsible for creating the Mujahideen, it was America that provided the funds and weapons, when the war was over, the Americans abandoned their precious weapons and thought that they would go home but they chose to stay and take over Afghanistan leading to the mujahideen being split into 6 factions that fought for control and the taliban, one of the factions came out on top. So you see, it wasn't extremism that gave birth to the Taliban, it was America's actions that culminated in the daemon that is now troubling us both. From you story, I can guess you know very little about this matter.

Now it seems as Pakistan is willing to surrender to the Taliban regardless of the fact that thousands and thousands of Pakistans have been murdered in cold blood by the Taliban.

Last time I checked it was ISAF and NATO that were holding talks with Talibs, and we were whooping their back sides out of our country, so I hope you revise that statements because it reflects total lack of knowledge and it suggests that you are not in touch with reality...........

I notice the fact that Pakistan continually create justifications for terrorism. Most Americans find the idea of getting on a bus, going into a café, or walking into a mall with explosives on you, and blowing up innocent men, women and children into little bits, the most cowardly and despicable type of evil, that currently exists on earth. Because so few other victimized or oppressed groups in the world have so embraced this war tactic, Americans usually conclude Islam is a special kind of evil.

This is the 30th time you have written the same thing, just on a different thread and my answer is the same as ever, I pity the Americans for their lack of knowledge, If they watched the news for once instead of **** and NFL, they would know that it was the LTTE, a HINDU extremist group that invented the concept of suicide bombing and they have used this tactic quite effectively and in large freaquency long before any muslim even knew what a suicide vest is, so I ask you once again to please revise your statement. The Taliban are gits and we do not, I REPEAT, we DO NOT agree to their brand of Islam and wan't nothing to do with it what so ever.

Another fact you might want to consider the Afgans cant really fight, they are pretty good murders of innocent helpless people but the fact is the USA took out the Taliban Goverment, and Military and occupied Afghanstan for over 7 years now with the loss of only 1000 soldiers.

Yet America is losing this war, what a shame.

Now the day may come when the USA leaves that part of the world but leaves thousands of drones behind...murdering innocent americans in cold blood by the 1000s is never going to get any one any thing but destruction and death.

I honestly don't understand what you mean, could you please spell it out for me ?
 
The taliban did not get their religious extreamist views from the USA. They were used along with Pakistan to defeat the USSR occupation of Afghanstan.

These same extreamist occupy large parts of Pakistan where the Pakistan military and goverment are afraid to go.

As far as the USA loseing the war that yet to be seen..

The USA is allways going to be going after terrorist that are a threat to the USA. We are going to continue to produce the drones because they are an efficent way to deal with terrorism....non only are they going to many more of them, they are going to be much more advance. Right now in orbit there is the X37B it will carry missles an stay up for as long as 9 months at a time.

Right now non-Westerners were 38 times more likely to be killed by an al-Qaida attack than Westerners.
 

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