TigerOfMysore
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@Reichmarshal - This will be my last post on this thread, but I'll explain to you why we find ourselves here. Post #110 was my effort to pen my thoughts around a simple argument - can we compare our SSG to top Tier SOFs like CAG and Seals. I wrote something, which was clearly open to critique which I accept. But even in that post I wrote this is just an analysis and "hoping not to get hate". A number of people liked it, and a few questions popped up as well from the likes of @Adecypher . That made it a courteous back and forth.
Then you came in on post #113 and put a lot of stuff there. Most I did not agree with. And to be honest I would have let it go. What did erk me and I'll be honest is how you came over the top, with these one liners and almost a bullying approach. You started off saying I should "stop watching Rambo style movies" and that I should "get my head out of where the sun don't shine". You talk about courtesy but that my brother was your first post.
If there is one thing I have realized on forums like these. You never know who sits behind an avatar. So be careful what you say and who you pick a bone with.
Nevertheless I took your post #113 at face value and wrote a detailed response, on why attributing Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, even Pakistan's own COIN ops was not exclusively an SSG won victory, but a result of a number of factors. In this post I even questioned whether I should have written to begin with, because of my concern around members becoming emotional. I also kept my sharper rebuttals away from your personality using comments like "God even average officers in Pakistan's (C) Staff College will laugh at the over sized view of SSG".
@Adecypher had a question that I responded to in Post #118.
Then you came back in your Post #124. First you tell me to stop writing long posts, because you feel like I am lecturing you. Then you say three things: You state that I am demeaning Afghans, which I was perplexed on. Then you talk about "souls", comparing my type of soul and those of the SSG. (I still love a simple Daal / Chaawal). And finally you say something about airpower that I am giving too much credence to it. Which I never did, and agree with your premise.
Now at this point per @JamD I should have left it. That was my mistake. One would find this hard to believe, but I generally respected your thoughts and views. If it was one of our neighbors to the East I would have not even bothered. But I have watched and read your posts of the past and they have some substance occasionally. So I thought I'd take each of @Reichmarshal three points and give him a rebuttal. Hopefully he'll understand where I am coming from.
So I responded with post #126. And yes this was LONG. But I took the opportunity to restate my thesis, trying to stay more or less on point (not questioning where your head is stuck, the movies you watch, the nature of your soul). So generally speaking stated, we should avoid comparing SSG to top Tier, don't attribute all operations as sole domain of SSG prowess, and finally the Sri Lanka Tamil operation was a hard fought multi-tier engagement where other factors had more to do with SL winning than some vaunted SSG led training or action. Now I agree this was the first post where I took a little dig at you. Wondering whether there was a familial connection or some underlying psychological need for hero elevation. I did this gently saying "I too shared this till someone knocked some sense in me", so as not to be too mean. Now I could have said that that knock got set when I was still in my teenage years, but that would have been too harsh.
I did a post #131 which was a response to @iLION12345_1 .
This was followed by a little banter between @Bilal Khan (Quwa) and @JamD
Now you come back with a doozey in post #137. Not sure what happened here - from throwing things at me, like "I contradict myself" to SSG is the spear point.. your exact words "SSG was n is the tip of the spear, always first into a battle, followed by lcb, which are followed by the infantry which is deployed in a holding pattern." And then a bunch of Piffer and Punjab regiment affiliations (which I find fascinating how if you are of South Asian descent, the English allowed your forefathers to raise battalions and in one case the regiment itselfin the 19th century). My response to this was to give thanks to your family's service and then question your ORBAT approach in post #142. I will concede that I was mean in this post when I stated "Please don't say Pakistan Army's spear is SSG. You'll be laughed out of any gathering of serious military people." I will still give you that advice.
Some will argue that the train had gotten off the track earlier on. But I'll say it truly went off when you came back to my post #142 with your clarification on the Orbat for SSG and said "the order of battle I have given above would basically happen when faced with enemy infantry.", and some other nonsense about me grabbing to crumbs etc. The rest is history, and I shared with you in post #144 how complex Orbats can be and SOFs against Infantry is generally not the approach taken.
.
@Reichmarshal - my brother, I have been on these types of forums for 30+ years. You have no idea what I do and/or have done. Nor is that important to the discourse which essentially in such forums is a battle of thoughts and ideas on the topic at discussion. I never bring my ego into this process (which is so hands off to begin with), and generally speaking I listen from the sidelines and apply my learnings in real life. I also am old enough to realize that we never know who is behind an avatar and to give everyone respect and space to express. And if we disagree let the battle be a battle of ideas not personal digs ruling the day. Finally I have also learned and this is a lesson of life, that the more I learn the less I know. Yes sounds cliche.
This interaction with you does not cloud or reduce my appreciation of the value you bring to this forum.I hope to have more interesting and downstream discussions on other topics, either supporting or opposing each others view. This is my last post on this thread.
Then you came in on post #113 and put a lot of stuff there. Most I did not agree with. And to be honest I would have let it go. What did erk me and I'll be honest is how you came over the top, with these one liners and almost a bullying approach. You started off saying I should "stop watching Rambo style movies" and that I should "get my head out of where the sun don't shine". You talk about courtesy but that my brother was your first post.
If there is one thing I have realized on forums like these. You never know who sits behind an avatar. So be careful what you say and who you pick a bone with.
Nevertheless I took your post #113 at face value and wrote a detailed response, on why attributing Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, even Pakistan's own COIN ops was not exclusively an SSG won victory, but a result of a number of factors. In this post I even questioned whether I should have written to begin with, because of my concern around members becoming emotional. I also kept my sharper rebuttals away from your personality using comments like "God even average officers in Pakistan's (C) Staff College will laugh at the over sized view of SSG".
@Adecypher had a question that I responded to in Post #118.
Then you came back in your Post #124. First you tell me to stop writing long posts, because you feel like I am lecturing you. Then you say three things: You state that I am demeaning Afghans, which I was perplexed on. Then you talk about "souls", comparing my type of soul and those of the SSG. (I still love a simple Daal / Chaawal). And finally you say something about airpower that I am giving too much credence to it. Which I never did, and agree with your premise.
Now at this point per @JamD I should have left it. That was my mistake. One would find this hard to believe, but I generally respected your thoughts and views. If it was one of our neighbors to the East I would have not even bothered. But I have watched and read your posts of the past and they have some substance occasionally. So I thought I'd take each of @Reichmarshal three points and give him a rebuttal. Hopefully he'll understand where I am coming from.
So I responded with post #126. And yes this was LONG. But I took the opportunity to restate my thesis, trying to stay more or less on point (not questioning where your head is stuck, the movies you watch, the nature of your soul). So generally speaking stated, we should avoid comparing SSG to top Tier, don't attribute all operations as sole domain of SSG prowess, and finally the Sri Lanka Tamil operation was a hard fought multi-tier engagement where other factors had more to do with SL winning than some vaunted SSG led training or action. Now I agree this was the first post where I took a little dig at you. Wondering whether there was a familial connection or some underlying psychological need for hero elevation. I did this gently saying "I too shared this till someone knocked some sense in me", so as not to be too mean. Now I could have said that that knock got set when I was still in my teenage years, but that would have been too harsh.
I did a post #131 which was a response to @iLION12345_1 .
This was followed by a little banter between @Bilal Khan (Quwa) and @JamD
Now you come back with a doozey in post #137. Not sure what happened here - from throwing things at me, like "I contradict myself" to SSG is the spear point.. your exact words "SSG was n is the tip of the spear, always first into a battle, followed by lcb, which are followed by the infantry which is deployed in a holding pattern." And then a bunch of Piffer and Punjab regiment affiliations (which I find fascinating how if you are of South Asian descent, the English allowed your forefathers to raise battalions and in one case the regiment itselfin the 19th century). My response to this was to give thanks to your family's service and then question your ORBAT approach in post #142. I will concede that I was mean in this post when I stated "Please don't say Pakistan Army's spear is SSG. You'll be laughed out of any gathering of serious military people." I will still give you that advice.
Some will argue that the train had gotten off the track earlier on. But I'll say it truly went off when you came back to my post #142 with your clarification on the Orbat for SSG and said "the order of battle I have given above would basically happen when faced with enemy infantry.", and some other nonsense about me grabbing to crumbs etc. The rest is history, and I shared with you in post #144 how complex Orbats can be and SOFs against Infantry is generally not the approach taken.
.
@Reichmarshal - my brother, I have been on these types of forums for 30+ years. You have no idea what I do and/or have done. Nor is that important to the discourse which essentially in such forums is a battle of thoughts and ideas on the topic at discussion. I never bring my ego into this process (which is so hands off to begin with), and generally speaking I listen from the sidelines and apply my learnings in real life. I also am old enough to realize that we never know who is behind an avatar and to give everyone respect and space to express. And if we disagree let the battle be a battle of ideas not personal digs ruling the day. Finally I have also learned and this is a lesson of life, that the more I learn the less I know. Yes sounds cliche.
This interaction with you does not cloud or reduce my appreciation of the value you bring to this forum.I hope to have more interesting and downstream discussions on other topics, either supporting or opposing each others view. This is my last post on this thread.
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