Unsatisfied with the Xi's reform plans

[Genesis]

No fixing of the state owned craparations, no dissolving of the Hukou system, which btw is a relic of the past anyways seeing as we are ENCOURAGING migration, and no debt problem fixing on the local level.


On the political scene, it's way worse. Judicial system still owned by the party but "reformed"? So no change at all.

No dissolving of prison labor, no mention of some media freedom. And so much more crap.


This is significant? The party is doing something really dangerous right now, they are making China rich and creating a new elite of businessman who can base their success on innovation rather than relations with the state.

They are creating a middle class that will soon become the people Xi mentioned, those pesky westerners who have full stomachs.

IF they don't start some political reforms that would at least give transparency and accountability if not the right to elect. Then they will really be done and China may go into political chaos for a few years to reestablish status quo. At a crucial time like this, we can hardly afford one minute off the gas.

At the human development index we are ranked lower than certain countries that have less per capita and infrastructure and access to social welfare, but they are at least on the surface more free and accountable, we can drastically improve our image IF we at least change the spots, but from this stupid meeting it seems not even that will get done.

Now I don't expect an end to one party rule, I'm personally fine with it, but when your political system is compared to North Korea, you got problems. Personally I'm much more in favor of our meritocracy system, rather than the popularity contest in the US. What has Obama done prior to becoming president to prove he can lead? The result is for all to see.

Media freedom won't result in democracy, I think we are just a different breed to the Americans, we understand some people are just born smarter more capable. We are ok with it. We understand there are great man who are just different and can lead better than the rest.

We are not a nation of teenagers where if big brother wants you to eat veggies and get a job, we start and tantrum and call pizza hut and lock the doors.

All in all, I'm very disappointed in this, if these reports are to be believed.

Anyways, stupid rant, too much hope, too little returns. This is world cup 2002 all over again.

 

[eazzy]

Wait and see. And hope.
They need time, they said they will do it, now just wait.

 

[Echo_419]

No fixing of the state owned craparations, no dissolving of the Hukou system, which btw is a relic of the past anyways seeing as we are ENCOURAGING migration, and no debt problem fixing on the local level.


On the political scene, it's way worse. Judicial system still owned by the party but "reformed"? So no change at all.

No dissolving of prison labor, no mention of some media freedom. And so much more crap.


This is significant? The party is doing something really dangerous right now, they are making China rich and creating a new elite of businessman who can base their success on innovation rather than relations with the state.

They are creating a middle class that will soon become the people Xi mentioned, those pesky westerners who have full stomachs.

IF they don't start some political reforms that would at least give transparency and accountability if not the right to elect. Then they will really be done and China may go into political chaos for a few years to reestablish status quo. At a crucial time like this, we can hardly afford one minute off the gas.

At the human development index we are ranked lower than certain countries that have less per capita and infrastructure and access to social welfare, but they are at least on the surface more free and accountable, we can drastically improve our image IF we at least change the spots, but from this stupid meeting it seems not even that will get done.

Now I don't expect an end to one party rule, I'm personally fine with it, but when your political system is compared to North Korea, you got problems. Personally I'm much more in favor of our meritocracy system, rather than the popularity contest in the US. What has Obama done prior to becoming president to prove he can lead? The result is for all to see.

Media freedom won't result in democracy, I think we are just a different breed to the Americans, we understand some people are just born smarter more capable. We are ok with it. We understand there are great man who are just different and can lead better than the rest.

We are not a nation of teenagers where if big brother wants you to eat veggies and get a job, we start and tantrum and call pizza hut and lock the doors.

All in all, I'm very disappointed in this, if these reports are to be believed.

Anyways, stupid rant, too much hope, too little returns. This is world cup 2002 all over again.

Question why do you are against prison labour
These suckers have commited crimes
Why should they enjoy free meals
Payed by the tax generated from the hard working Chinese people
Let them work
& this is a positive thing to
Will make them capable to earn a living in future

Also one party system should go
Sooner or later
In the long term it is important for stability of the country
By long term I mean DECADES

 

[eazzy]

And about media freedom...I don't know...how will the average peasant react when he will read the bullshit in western medias ? Don't you fear the US would use it to seek instability ? Countries which are friends with the
US don't have to fear instability but other countries must be cautious.

 

[Genesis]

Question why do you are against prison labour
These suckers have commited crimes
Why should they enjoy free meals
Payed by the tax generated from the hard working Chinese people
Let them work
& this is a positive thing to
Will make them capable to earn a living in future

Also one party system should go
Sooner or later
In the long term it is important for stability of the country
By long term I mean DECADES

Prison labor is fine IF it is not exploited, but it is too easily exploited by petty jackasses who wields too much power, it is true in the US and it is true here.

Also more importantly, it is bad for image, for the meager contribution these places make, it gives the west one more whip to whip us with. All in all not a good deal.


As to one party, I mentioned that though it is one party, it is not one race, one family or even one religion and belief. Though we don't allow separate parties on the surface, separate parties in reality has already formed.

Like a group of friends, you are bound to be closer to some but less close to others and may even hate a few, and yet it is still a group.

How quickly we forget history, in the days of monarchy, there are no parties, but the political fighting is no less fierce, why is it today we seem to value so much of face value and so little of actual worth.

Having multi party may end our meritocracy, which I don't support.


@eazzy

When people start to hear things they realize how stupid it is and turn away. Conspiracy theories are there no because of reality but because of secrecy. No Chinese believe that government officials don't do bribes, and often has some pretty wild ideas, but in reality it isn't so, at least not always.

IF we are to get down to it, India has no less problems and maybe more and yet, India is still stable.

It's like getting married, once you pursued her so relentlessly, but after a while, it is what it is, and you are running for the hills most of the times if you could.

When you start talking and listening you realize how little you want to know and how little you actually want to say.

In our society of money reign supreme who even cares, what other people are doing as long as it doesn't stop them from making a buck.

 

[Echo_419]

Prison labor is fine IF it is not exploited, but it is too easily exploited by petty jackasses who wields too much power, it is true in the US and it is true here.

Also more importantly, it is bad for image, for the meager contribution these places make, it gives the west one more whip to whip us with. All in all not a good deal.


As to one party, I mentioned that though it is one party, it is not one race, one family or even one religion and belief. Though we don't allow separate parties on the surface, separate parties in reality has already formed.

Like a group of friends, you are bound to be closer to some but less close to others and may even hate a few, and yet it is still a group.

How quickly we forget history, in the days of monarchy, there are no parties, but the political fighting is no less fierce, why is it today we seem to value so much of face value and so little of actual worth.

Having multi party may end our meritocracy, which I don't support.


@eazzy

When people start to hear things they realize how stupid it is and turn away. Conspiracy theories are there no because of reality but because of secrecy. No Chinese believe that government officials don't do bribes, and often has some pretty wild ideas, but in reality it isn't so, at least not always.

IF we are to get down to it, India has no less problems and maybe more and yet, India is still stable.

It's like getting married, once you pursued her so relentlessly, but after a while, it is what it is, and you are running for the hills most of the times if you could.

When you start talking and listening you realize how little you want to know and how little you actually want to say.

In our society of money reign supreme who even cares, what other people are doing as long as it doesn't stop them from making a buck.

So then prison system should be reformed

& the west is gonna hate you as long as china poses a challange to them
& among BRICS
You are the best bet of the world
For eg
In 1971 the US supported a dictator ship pakistan also killing millions in Current day BD
Over The largest democracy in Asia then
They even sensed their AC USS enterprise
To bomb us if we did not back off
Luckily we had a strong leader with some balls & Soviets on our side

West only cares about her intrests
Just Ignore these idiots
Nothing else

 

[Genesis]

So then prison system should be reformed

& the west is gonna hate you as long as china poses a challange to them
& among BRICS
You are the best bet of the world
For eg
In 1971 the US supported a dictator ship pakistan also killing millions in Current day BD
Over The largest democracy in Asia then
They even sensed their AC USS enterprise
To bomb us if we did not back off
Luckily we had a strong leader with some balls & Soviets on our side

West only cares about her intrests
Just Ignore these idiots
Nothing else

There is a saying in Chinese 名不正则言不顺.

It means one cannot complete a cause that isn't righteous. Sort of, hard to completely translate.

In order for China to be a world power, we need two sides of a coin. Power, that's economic, technological, culture, military and so on.

The other side? Philosophical side of things. We need to be seen as a beacon of justice, defender of the humanity. Might isn't right, right is right.

Right now China is seen as communist, backwards, dictatorship, slavery driven, repression and all kinds of crap. Whether or not it is true is irrelevant. What is relevant is perception.

Who would welcome us? You think Americans had it bad in Iraq? IF we were there in her place, it be way worse. For one thing, we can't even establish a government that can at least sound righteous.


So I ask you, isn't it worth spending some money to keep those criminals in "happy" if it helps us on the international stage? In the game of international politics, one must not be petty, in one instant we can be friends with our worst enemy and the next we can stab them in the back, and if it suits us, we would welcome back any who has stabbed us in the back.

Dominance comes with a price, and the price is you can never be your own master, but the slave of a force no one has been able to control since the beginning of humanity, gossip.

 

[cirr]

Steady as she goes.

There is no need to be drastic about the reform or rush anything.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I agree with a lot of what Genesis is saying, however I also agree with cirr, that we need to take it slow.

Better safe than sorry, especially with something so important as this.

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

Genesis is right.
Now is the time to be decisive, there is too much injustice and sorrow in China .
Once discontent reaches critical mass the CCP will fall apart dragging the proud Chinese down with them.

Poor social mobility, decadent officials, massive injustices to the working poor - this recipe is the bane of all Chinese gobernments and dynasties.

 

[NiceGuy]

Question why do you are against prison labour
These suckers have commited crimes
Why should they enjoy free meals
Payed by the tax generated from the hard working Chinese people
Let them work
& this is a positive thing to
Will make them capable to earn a living in future

Also one party system should go
Sooner or later
In the long term it is important for stability of the country
By long term I mean DECADES

Problem is: there is No human rights in China, so the police can arrest you and charge you a life-sentence anytime they want like in N.Korea even u r innocent and force u to work as a slave in prison.

 

[Echo_419]

There is a saying in Chinese 名不正则言不顺.

It means one cannot complete a cause that isn't righteous. Sort of, hard to completely translate.

In order for China to be a world power, we need two sides of a coin. Power, that's economic, technological, culture, military and so on.

The other side? Philosophical side of things. We need to be seen as a beacon of justice, defender of the humanity. Might isn't right, right is right.

Right now China is seen as communist, backwards, dictatorship, slavery driven, repression and all kinds of crap. Whether or not it is true is irrelevant. What is relevant is perception.

Who would welcome us? You think Americans had it bad in Iraq? IF we were there in her place, it be way worse. For one thing, we can't even establish a government that can at least sound righteous.


So I ask you, isn't it worth spending some money to keep those criminals in "happy" if it helps us on the international stage? In the game of international politics, one must not be petty, in one instant we can be friends with our worst enemy and the next we can stab them in the back, and if it suits us, we would welcome back any who has stabbed us in the back.

Dominance comes with a price, and the price is you can never be your own master, but the slave of a force no one has been able to control since the beginning of humanity, gossip.

Well China needs a strong civil society to
Something we have in India

Just in Case if the Communist Party falls apart there must be someone to take over from them
Every strong & a stable country has a strong civil Society
[Please Ignore my Nationality while reading the last line]

 

[xunzi]

Problem is: there is No human rights in China, so the police can arrest you and charge you a life-sentence anytime they want like in N.Korea even u r innocent and force u to work as a slave in prison.

Shut your fucking mouth. Your country in Vietnam is even worse and a copycat of China system.

 

[Snomannen]

Corruption Perceptions Index 2012
Hong Kong - 14
China - 80
India - 94
Vietnam - 123

2012 Corruption Perceptions Index -- Results

 

[Fsjal]

I think China should be ruled by PLA generals, than corrupted men working with capitalistic business men.

China should be an over-sized, communist, military junta.