Unlike Pakistan, Yemen Earns American Gratitude

[Solomon2]

Solomon2, I suggest you read what Adm. Mike Mullen and Richard Holbrooke have to say -

My guess is that they may not say what they think, for fear of making a bad situation worse. This is called diplomacy.

The US didn't bring War to Yemen's doorstep, the US isn't playing double-games with Yemen, and 40+ Yemenis weren't killed recently in suicide bomb attacks.

American gratitude? try American hubris and ingratitude.

No, I think it's more like this: The U.S., Britain, Canada, and Australia are allied English-speaking countries that all play ball together, without hidden agendas. Now here comes Pakistan, an English-speaking country that professes to be an ally yet doesn't follow the same expectations, mostly because its values on the world stage are wildly different: Pakistan, at least until recently, had a long history of supporting terrorism and its officials are still perceived to lie to Americans about almost everything important. Trust has to be earned, and from the U.S. point of view for a long while Pakistan barely made any efforts, or worse, actively supported America's enemies.

 

[SMC]

You judge matters so quickly! How do you do that? Was it part of your schooling?

It's easy to judge it quickly once you realize this guy (the supposed bomber) was helped and escorted through the security by CIA/FBI.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

A few days ago passengers foiled an Al Qaeda attack on a U.S. airliner. The perpetrator was sent by the Arabian Peninsula branch of the organization.

Instead of sheltering those who brainwashed their puppet into doing the deed, Yemen responded almost immediately:

Tens of millions of dollars given before any of this happened. Can you even imagine the gratitude us Americans feel towards Yemen for fighting Al Qaeda and how we will choose to express it?

This so called Yamani punk was known person to CIA yet they let him get on plane, every day ppl have to wait 5 hours on bleepin airports and this guy gets to ride on plane with a bloody bomb ... is this a joke or what ? Now normal ppl have to get searched 3-4 times - how is that gratitude for ya

I mean , its the biggest joke on planet earth now , this guy waltz into a plane - and he was on all CIA list and was known person I rest my case -

Reality is , there is no accountability in US forigne policies same policies in 80's by US are cause of this mess in frist place

Pakistan has never supported any terrorist , NEVER, CIA with Ronald Regans approval , gave Millions and Stinger Missiles to Afghan fighters to oppose Russians

I mean why would we support and give money to anyone ?? Illogical

US support of Militarization of Afghanistan
Support of Terrorism in Afghanistan this is birth of the terrorim who Approved it ???

It was not some guy named Akhmed , it was some guy named joe , jim , trucker in Pentegon eating dougnut and coeffee

Reference:
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Afghanistan/Afghanistan_CIA_Taliban.html

Article Written by University Professor - in USA - I know ppl react more favourbly to University Professors

The mujahideen were significantly financed and armed (and are alleged to have been trained) by the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) during the administrations of Carter[3] and Reagan, and also by Saudi Arabia, Pakistan under Zia-ul-Haq and several Western European countries. .

So who militarized Afghanistani national??? Is was not some one named Akhmed , was it it was some boy name John sitting in CIA / Pentagon


Ok time to defuse the , story


a) Pakistan looses 1 trillion Rupees , in 2008 alone due to so called
war on terror 11,860,989,549 USD









11 Billion Dollars - lost in Pakistan Economy 2008


All figures in GREEN bucks









11 billion dollars we can make 1100 JF17 thunder planes
or buy two aircraft carriers

Reference: War on terror cost Pakistan loss of Rs2.1 trillion - GEO.tv

b) Pakistani Solider lost , about 4000- 5000 Soliders
Civilian casualties Rough Estimate 20,000 minimum
Injured , must be 35,000 people who have suffered


Are all congress men on DOPE or Opume from Afgnanistan they don't see any deaths or casualties on Pakistani soil

THIS IS NOTHING new .... this has happened since 80's ... it stopped after Afghan war eneded - every time US comes in region , it results in casualties for Pakistan its simple as that

No one is shelving anyone - these guys were in Afghanistan and when US went in Afghanistan they started to do the bombing in Pakistan , so we never shltered anyone

In 1980's CIA funded these gentleman (based on your own gov) polices of 80's and when they won the war, US left them fight among themseleves....

Who is sheltering who , perhaps Rumsfield & Chaney or may be ppl from Ronald Regan's time can say why they decided to fund them in frist place in 80s

Pakistani don't want gratitude we want the un invited guests to leave ASAP if you know what I mean , we are hospitable folks but last thing you want to do is say that we never did anything which is what CONGRESS is all about lies and deception -

 

[Hulk]

Ok time to defuse the , story


a) Pakistan looses 1 trillion Rupees , in 2008 alone due to so called
war on terror 11,860,989,549 USD

11 Billion Dollars - lost in Pakistan Economy 2008

Reference: War on terror cost Pakistan loss of Rs2.1 trillion - GEO.tv

b) Pakistani Solider lost , about 4000- 5000 Soliders
Civilian casualties Rough Estimate 20,000 minimum
Injured , must be 35,000 people who have suffered


No one is shelving anyone - these guys were in Afghanistan and when US went in Afghanistan they started to do the bombing in Pakistan , so we never shltered anyone

In 1980's CIA funded these gentleman (based on your own gov) polices of 80's and when they won the war, US left them fight among themseleves....

Who is sheltering who , perhaps Rumsfield & Chaney or may be ppl from Ronald Regan's time can say why they decided to fund them in frist place in 80s

Pakistani don't want gratitude we want the un invited guests to leave ASAP if you know what I mean , we are hospitable folks but last thing you want to do is say that we never did anything which is what CONGRESS is all about lies and deception -

First figure out if war on terror is your war or not.
If it is your war then why blame others for loss of money for fighting your war, if it is not then why you are having a war in first place. Are you going to attack on your own soil if you feel it is not right.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Pakistan, at least until recently, had a long history of supporting terrorism and its officials are still perceived to lie to Americans about almost everything important. Trust has to be earned, and from the U.S. point of view for a long while Pakistan barely made any efforts, or worse, actively supported America's enemies.

Yeah we have been SUPPORTING terrorism :
1)We nuked japan
2)We armed taliban with stingers blow pipes etc?
3)We supported OSAMA when he was killing russians
4)We suported Saddam
5)We supported Sadam while he was killing turds and USA was sitting there in the corner
6)We sent WMDs to iraq and secretly made them dissapear
7)We invaded and destroyed iraq for NO APPARENT REASON?
8)We ARE THE SUPER POWER WHO CANT FIND OSAMA WITH TRILLION OF $$$ WORTH SATELLITES AND WEAPONS
9)We are killing civilians in friendly firing and feeding our soldiers drugs in AFGHANISTAN and IRAQ to control there BRAIN and stop them from commiting suicides
10)You can keep your stamp of approval to your self.An ordinary PAKISTANI doesnt give a craper for your approval and DO MORE MY .... RANT WHILE YOU ARE GETTING DRILLED IN AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ??????

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

First figure out if war on terror is your war or not.
If it is your war then why blame others for loss of money for fighting your war, if it is not then why you are having a war in first place. Are you going to attack on your own soil if you feel it is not right.

One thing is clear USA has to cough up the bill since , just like in 80's we were thrown in middle , and this time around we are thrown again in middle - so we really have no real role but to expect US to take its toys , and "so called friends" who are sometimes called Talibans or TTP what ever , and just find a new play ground to play your games -

We ARE JUST trying to help US pick up all the loose toys on ground like Taliban , or any AL Qaida , and pack them in one big plane and ship them out of our neighbours territories

We are fighting awaiting 80 helicopters we requested to fight the war on terrror - our odd 10-20 helicopters are not sufficent to fight the war on terror so we have made a request to our allies USA to send us 80 Super Corbra helicopters to fight against terrorist , and China has already given us some , and Russia

We also are getting J11 B for those extremely difficult terrorist who are hard to find

But , the sonner we can clean out the rougue elements it would be best , I do suggest Pakistan should just take over Afghanistan it would be a simple easy solution - once US leaves I mean

We took 2 weeks to clear out Swat I am sure we can do same in Afganistan
I think the confusion lies , in Pakistan doing quite ALOT , and yet there is no support from USA - 0 % support

We can't use our helicopters as they will have wear and tear they are ment for support of our tank units , so likely US has to give us better Helicopters and equip us better to fight the war

I do think Pakistan has done quite alot -

While its true Yameni forces may have acted , but that was a person who CIA already had tracked down they were still dumb enough to let him fly on plane - lol but that is CIA for you ...

They will keep a pregnent women and guy going to get his engineering degree waiting on airport for 5 hours , and they will let a guy with bomb go on plane no questioned asked oh ... you are on CIA watch list great , sir would you like Tea or Champagne with your dinner on board flight 245 what ever - ...

Like talk about incompetence -

If you doubt Pakistan's role as Ally of US I think you must look at history of both nations and we have always continued to work together - this is why we always get support from US

The only point of concern is the media and un informed congressman who have never seen our past history , and they make thes rash demands and comments -

Pakistan - only cares about realities not stories made up in Media , that we are not doing enough..


HERE is reality Pakistan Armed froces are engaged in battles vs Afghnistan taliban elements and we are going to recieve 18 F16 fighters to fight this war

And US is also sending us a USS frigate which is great , and this is why Pakistan Army is engaged in the tribal areas to capture all the rougue elements -
I am sure once we have extra 80 helicopters and more support we can do something positive -

US / Pakistan Joint Efforts against Terrorist

Future frigate for Pakistan Navy


Great cooperation between two Airforces of US / Pakistan

Like I said what we do need is 80 helicopters from US, and run a , FLUSH out operation , OPERATION flush Talibans , and that is only possible if we have 80 Super Cobras so when we move in our 40,00 troops , the helicopters can close any border areas and we bring this war to end -

The frigates and f16 are there for quick response but for operation flush out talian we need 80 helicopters SUPER COBRAS or at least Apache - really Its time we get serious with things

LESS of Media Hype and Congress man , more of Action and cooperation


PLASE SEND 80 OF THESE TO PAKISTAN ARMY ASAP ... I request it immediately thank you
These helicopters sitting in hangers in Tennesee is useless , if there are available send them to Pakistan army and LETS DO THIS ... right

 

[asq]

My guess is that they may not say what they think, for fear of making a bad situation worse. This is called diplomacy.



No, I think it's more like this: The U.S., Britain, Canada, and Australia are allied English-speaking countries that all play ball together, without hidden agendas. Now here comes Pakistan, an English-speaking country that professes to be an ally yet doesn't follow the same expectations, mostly because its values on the world stage are wildly different: Pakistan, at least until recently, had a long history of supporting terrorism and its officials are still perceived to lie to Americans about almost everything important. Trust has to be earned, and from the U.S. point of view for a long while Pakistan barely made any efforts, or worse, actively supported America's enemies.

Long history iof supporting pakistan, are you kidding me, Where do you get your info, I guess from Fortune cookies.

Since 50s Pakistan supported the US, the encirclement of china, the seato and Cento and other programs to support allies. even in the case of suez crisis, that is why Arabs side with Indian ever since.

On each and every instance when we needed allies they abondon us, like in the case of bangls desh or aghanistan when Russians left.

We handed all high value target to allies, we even handed killer of cia agents in 80s in 90 we kept Afghan refugees and in 20000 we started supporting allies and kept their supply route open, the most impotant element of war, and u blame that Pakistan priorities changes. not TRUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

 

[s6demon]

Long history iof supporting are kidding me, Where do tyou get your info, I guess from Fortune cookie.

he doesnt know a thing. he has been pitching that line in other threads too.

He will now claim that Pakistan built the taliban without any foriegn (american) help and that equats "supporting terrorism." He has been running with that b.s. in other threads as well and when i put the history in front of his face how the u.s. is the REAL godfather of the taliban he had no retort and instead ran off to other threads with the same terrorism line.

 

[S-2]

"...i put the history in front of his face how the u.s. is the REAL godfather of the taliban he had no retort and instead ran off to other threads with the same terrorism line."

I've a retort-you're wrong.

Plain and simple. The taliban are an indigenous afghan movement that arose from the post-Soviet afghan civil war in 1994 in Oruzgan province. By 1996 they'd captured Kabul with assistance from the ISI who'd switched their allegiance from Hekmatyar to the taliban. The government which emerged from those actions was recognized by the KSA, UAE, and Pakistan...

...but not America. The sanctuaries by which they are permitted to survive are provided today by...

...Pakistan.

Quit conflating a mujahideen movement that also comprised Hazara, tajiks, uzbeks, and turkomen with the pashtu taliban. They are entirely different and your grasp on the facts has been revealed as tenuous.

I'd encourage you to read this excerpt (the first chapter) from Ahmed Rashid's- TALIBAN-Militant Islam, Oil, and Fundamentalism In Central Asia (2001) that details the emergence of the afghan taliban-

Kandahar 1994-The Origins Of the Taliban-Ahmed Rashid

The passage is extensive but Rashid has a clear grasp of matters. Hopefully you shall too when completed.

Thanks.

 

[s6demon]

I've a retort-you're wrong.

Plain and simple. The taliban are an indigenous afghan movement that arose from the post-Soviet afghan civil war in 1994 in Oruzgan province. By 1996 they'd captured Kabul with assistance from the ISI who'd switched their allegiance from Hekmatyar to the taliban. The government which emerged from those actions was recognized by the KSA, UAE, and Pakistan...

...but not America. The sanctuaries by which they are permitted to survive are provided today by...

...Pakistan.

Quit conflating a mujahideen movement that also comprised Hazara, tajiks, uzbeks, and turkomen with the pashtu taliban. They are entirely different and your grasp on the facts has been revealed as tenuous.

how is that in any sense a retort?

The whole world knows, the Afghan war happened before 1994, and during which the U.S. breastfed the taliban and al-qaida.

What you are attempting to do now is twist the historical facts to suit your self righteous vision in which the U.S. bears no blame for being a intergral part of the problem.

As i have said it before, the U.S. is nothing short of a godfather to these so called "terrorists" it is now fighting. Just as it was to Sadam Hussain before turning on him.

The U.S. washed its hands of Afghanistan after the Soviets left, not an ounce of help or development for the war torn country. What right does it now give the U.S. to be complaining that the Pakistanis did in their own backyard what they thought was in their country's best interest after rest of the world did nothing.

There is a saying in Punjabi which translates roughly to "the donkey eventually returned to where it belonged," and that is the case with the al-qaida turning on its godfather (the u.s.) and in the case of Americans returning back to Afghanistan to reap the mess they themselves had sown.

Welcome back!

 

[S-2]

"The whole world knows, the Afghan war happened before 1994..."

The whole world actually knows the taliban didn't come into being before 1994. You've an opportunity to read Rashid? If so, he makes clear their origins.

"...and during which the U.S. breastfed the taliban and al-qaida."

A.Q didn't exist before 1988 and the taliban before 1994.

"What you are attempting to do now is twist the historical facts to suit your self righteous vision in which the U.S. bears no blame for being a intergral part of the problem."

Not at all. I freely admit that America provided some $5B in military aid to the mujahideen between 1980-1987. This was matched by others from KSA, PRC, Great Britain, France, and Pakistan. You diminish their roles and at the same time conflate the mujahideen whom comprised Hazaras, tajiks, uzbeks, and turkomen along with pashtu with an all pashtu entity that emerged much later-the taliban.

You may take some time and read to further your education. I've provided an excellently capsulized resource. If you persist with this obstinate clinging to a narrative that is conspiracy ridden and wanders far from the simple facts that is your choice but our conversation will cease.

Thanks.

 

[Hulk]

I find this argument blaming USA for creation of Taliban and muzzahidins quit funny.
Russia invaded Afghanistan
Pakistan, Afghanistan and other countries wanted to defeat Russia so they created these fighters.
USA also wanted to get Russia out so it supported Afghan fighters with money weapons an training.
Now did Afghanistan or Pakistan said we did not want your support.
Did Afghanistan and Pakistan asked USA that you need to clean the mess after end of war.
If USA was not their will the Afghan fighters did not exist or Pakistan would hav done something different.
My point is USA or no USA Afghan fighters would have been still a reality, so why blame USA.
Their was no commitment from USA to clean the mess in Afghanistan, it the inability of Afgjanistan to blame first.
Did Pakistan ever opposed USA at any given point of time of war with Russia?

 

[mr42O]

Situations are different on both countries, while Pakistan wants to maintain good relationship with Taliban for future, no such thing exists in Yemen.

and u some how know that? Oh let me guess saw it on STAR NEWS ? lol

 

[gogbot]

"...i put the history in front of his face how the u.s. is the REAL godfather of the taliban he had no retort and instead ran off to other threads with the same terrorism line."

I've a retort-you're wrong.

Plain and simple. The taliban are an indigenous afghan movement that arose from the post-Soviet afghan civil war in 1994 in Oruzgan province. By 1996 they'd captured Kabul with assistance from the ISI who'd switched their allegiance from Hekmatyar to the taliban. The government which emerged from those actions was recognized by the KSA, UAE, and Pakistan...

...but not America. The sanctuaries by which they are permitted to survive are provided today by...

...Pakistan.

Quit conflating a mujahideen movement that also comprised Hazara, tajiks, uzbeks, and turkomen with the pashtu taliban. They are entirely different and your grasp on the facts has been revealed as tenuous.

I'd encourage you to read this excerpt (the first chapter) from Ahmed Rashid's- TALIBAN-Militant Islam, Oil, and Fundamentalism In Central Asia (2001) that details the emergence of the afghan taliban-

Kandahar 1994-The Origins Of the Taliban-Ahmed Rashid

The passage is extensive but Rashid has a clear grasp of matters. Hopefully you shall too when completed.

Thanks.

dont forget it was the ISI that facilitated the meeting of the Taliban and Kashmir Militant groups.

Making them the terrorist outfits they are today.

 

[ambidex]

US should learn from this and make following as national policy:
1. A proxy is a permanent proxy not transient.
2. Once proxy always proxy.
3. Dont rent a proxy but buy a proxy.
4. Unguarded proxy is a dangerous proxy.