Understanding the Army's Attack Helicopter Needs

[Tipu7]

Okay than T-129 and MI-28 or KA-52 back on the radar

Not Ka52........
I believe it's T129 & Mi28 back in game..... if Z10 is really out of business.
Probably Pakistan will ask for more upgradations in Z10.........

 

[Zarvan]

Not Ka52........
I believe it's T129 & Mi28 back in game..... if Z10 is really out of business.
Probably Pakistan will ask for more upgradations in Z10.........

KA-52 can come if we ask for it as for Mi 28 it was Russia itself who offered us Mi-28 during IDEX 2014 and now T-129 is also back on the radar.

 

[Zarvan]

@fatman17 Sir so which other helicopters we may test now ?

 

[Tipu7]

@fatman17 Sir so which other helicopters we may test now ?

Better ask shortcomings of Z10.......
To be honest...... I am disappointed.....

 

[Quwa]

Financially speaking, the PAA will probably just wait on the Chinese to fix the issues in Z-10. There's apparently an improved version being tested (Z-10A). After the AH-1Z it is unlikely we'll see any other non-Chinese platform.

Interesting note, in May 2015 Denel announced that it was looking at reviving the Rooivalk line, except with an upgraded system known as "Roovalk 2." Apparently, two unnamed countries expressed interest in the idea, I'd say there is an OK chance that one of those unnamed countries is Pakistan.

http://www.janes.com/article/51180/rooivalk-2-under-consideration

 

[Zarvan]

Better ask shortcomings of Z10.......
To be honest...... I am disappointed.....

Well I think it would be Mi-28 because Russia themselves offered us Mi-28 so I think this beast along with its brother Mi-35 would come for Pakistan.

 

[fatman17]

@fatman17 Sir so which other helicopters we may test now ?

Pakistan dosnt have many options other than.....
1. 15 AH1Zs which are in the pipeline. these will ultimately replace the original 20 odd AH1Ss ordered in the early 80s, even though they have been upgraded to the AH1F standard.
2. 4 Mi35s from Russia but there is no new news regarding their delivery / status. my gut feeling is that we may not see the Mi35 in Pakistan army livery anytime soon.
3. additional used AH1Fs from Bahrain as the arab sultanate orders AH64s from the US. about 20 AH1Fs will be transferred to Pakistan for use as well as spares.
4 . PAA plans to have 3 squadrons of attack helos (60 in number) for its operations against militants and any eventuality against our eastern adversary.
5. T129 and Tiger attack helos are too expensive.

 

[Quwa]

Pakistan dosnt have many options other than.....
1. 15 AH1Zs which are in the pipeline. these will ultimately replace the original 20 odd AH1Ss ordered in the early 80s, even though they have been upgraded to the AH1F standard.
2. 4 Mi35s from Russia but there is no new news regarding their delivery / status. my gut feeling is that we may not see the Mi35 in Pakistan army livery anytime soon.
3. additional used AH1Fs from Bahrain as the arab sultanate orders AH64s from the US. about 20 AH1Fs will be transferred to Pakistan for use as well as spares.
4 . PAA plans to have 3 squadrons of attack helos (60 in number) for its operations against militants and any eventuality against our eastern adversary.
5. T129 and Tiger attack helos are too expensive.

The Rooivalk 2 might be an option, especially as Denel is focusing on cost control and foreign customer input. In fact, when Denel announced that it was reviving the Rooivalk program, it received interest from two "unnamed countries." There aren't many countries out there who wouldn't want to be named on an issue like this.

 

[fatman17]

The Rooivalk 2 might be an option, especially as Denel is focusing on cost control and foreign customer input. In fact, when Denel announced that it was reviving the Rooivalk program, it received interest from two "unnamed countries." There aren't many countries out there who wouldn't want to be named on an issue like this.

Denel is focusing on the larger Indian as well as east Asian market.

 

[Quwa]

Denel is focusing on the larger Indian as well as east Asian market.

It is but it has had trouble making in-roads in the Indian market. In fact, the Indian market seems to heavily favour Western vendors (particularly American and Israeli). There isn't much Denel Dynamics could offer above what India already has access to from existing suppliers. Pakistan is definitely on South Africa's roadmap.

 

[Zarvan]

Pakistan dosnt have many options other than.....
1. 15 AH1Zs which are in the pipeline. these will ultimately replace the original 20 odd AH1Ss ordered in the early 80s, even though they have been upgraded to the AH1F standard.
2. 4 Mi35s from Russia but there is no new news regarding their delivery / status. my gut feeling is that we may not see the Mi35 in Pakistan army livery anytime soon.
3. additional used AH1Fs from Bahrain as the arab sultanate orders AH64s from the US. about 20 AH1Fs will be transferred to Pakistan for use as well as spares.
4 . PAA plans to have 3 squadrons of attack helos (60 in number) for its operations against militants and any eventuality against our eastern adversary.
5. T129 and Tiger attack helos are too expensive.

Sir I think Mi-35 are definately coming in fact I won't be surprised if hear that Pakistan increases the order to 20 or 24. Also as Mi-28 was also offered by Russia I am pretty sure we would not only test and if it passes tests we would go for it.

 

[313baberali]

The Rooivalk 2 might be an option, especially as Denel is focusing on cost control and foreign customer input. In fact, when Denel announced that it was reviving the Rooivalk program, it received interest from two "unnamed countries." There aren't many countries out there who wouldn't want to be named on an issue like this.

How about these little pampers .looks more as patrolling Heli for border forces then a attack .MD 530G.

 

[Quwa]

View attachment 290982
How about these little pampers .looks more as patrolling Heli for border forces then a attack .MD 530G.
View attachment 290983

I'd much rather Z-19 over that thing.

 

[Genghis khan1]

Attack helos seems quite irrelevant in modern warfare, where armoured units will always be accompanied by short and medium range SAMs. For example Buk-M1-2 has a range of 50 km, where Hellfire has a range of 5 km. Even a shoulder fired MANPAD would easily take down a multi-million dollar attack Helicopter.

 

[araz]

No offence but which new weed are you smoking these days........
we are talking about PA future rotatory wing fleet and you are suggesting Indian made junk ..........What make your think that we should consider that dalit of helicopter family.....Will you government allow it ????Will PA buy it????
Think before posting these kind of bull Cr@ps

He is smoking the trolling weed the one that gets people banned. However lets just watch him dance for a little while and enjoy his Thumkas. if he gets out of hand he will be put in the pen
A

Z10 has been rejected by the army for various shortcomings which have been given to the Chinese.

Would it be possible for you to elaborate or is this something that is left unsaid.
A

Financially speaking, the PAA will probably just wait on the Chinese to fix the issues in Z-10. There's apparently an improved version being tested (Z-10A). After the AH-1Z it is unlikely we'll see any other non-Chinese platform.

Interesting note, in May 2015 Denel announced that it was looking at reviving the Rooivalk line, except with an upgraded system known as "Roovalk 2." Apparently, two unnamed countries expressed interest in the idea, I'd say there is an OK chance that one of those unnamed countries is Pakistan.

http://www.janes.com/article/51180/rooivalk-2-under-consideration

On the first para, you took the words out of my mouth. On the second one I am not so sure. the problem with Rooviak was the engine If I remember correctly. So where is the new engine going to come from and how much will it add to the cost. PAA in its current strategy is buying small numbers in increments an the Rooviak is not going to become cheaper that way. Z10 on the other hand will get bought in droves by the chinese and the per unit cost is likely to be low. I suspect PAA will talk with this and that for there is no harm in talking. We will increase the numbers of MI35 after initial evaluation. If the Chinese come back with a suitable alternative we will go ifor an upgraded Z10 in 2018-19, otherwise i suspect it might well end up being MI 28 as there is commonality between it and MI35 and MI17 in engine and spares . However the main development will take a couple of years so wait till 2017 before much else happens. You will in any case be busy inducting AH1Zs and MI35s
As to fixed wing rotary platforms, I suspect our emphasis may well be on Drones at medium/ high altitudes with ATGMs . It will make a lot more sense as it is a cheaper option with lots of loitering time and in case of destruction easily replaced with no loss of life. Fixed wing platforms are going to be difficult to defend in the subcontinental war theatre as there is no decisive air superiority on either side
A