Ulema and Pakistan Movement

[M. Sarmad]

@Chak Bamu

Munir Report_1953 is a document of great historical value . The REPORT OF THE COURT OF INQUIRY CONSTITUTED UNDER PUNJAB ACT II OF 1954 TO ENQUIRE INTO THE PUNJAB DISTURBANCES OF 1953 authored by Justice Munir is a classic study in the core dilemmas of Pakistani state and society.

Read full report here :

Justice Munir's report (1954)

This high-powered Investigative Commission exhaustively analyzed the Islamists’ demands, based on written testimony and cross examination, of dozens of so-called scholars. Topics like the ideology for the establishment of an Islamic State, its foundations, essentials requirements, sovereignty and democracy, legislature and legislation, minority rights in Islamic State and the corresponding rights of Muslims in non-Muslim countries, jihad, apostasy, etc. are all exhaustively examined. This report holds the key to refute the Islamist propaganda that is fueling terrorism and radicalism among Muslims around the world. Al-Qaida, Taliban and other Islamist groups are striving to establish this mythical Islamic State.

 

[Dubious]

@Azlan Haider summary? Too busy to read such details

 

[INDIC]

@Pak-one Was Deobandism the main reason that Pakistan movement failed to penetrate in NWFP as Deobandis in entire India were vocal critics of the Pakistan movement.

 

[M. Sarmad]

@Pak-one Was Deobandism the main reason that Pakistan movement failed to penetrate in NWFP as Deobandis in entire India were vocal critics of the Pakistan movement.

To understand the dirty role played by deoband Mullahs in NWFP , read this :

State of Confusion II

 

[INDIC]

To understand the dirty role played by deoband Mullahs in NWFP , read this :

State of Confusion II

But how does it explain the opposition to Pakistan movement from Deobandis of UP. Anyway, have you read the book Facts are Facts by Khan Abdul Wali Khan where he had given great reference to declassified British telegrams, very interesting book. BTW, the Pakistan movement was about the class interests of Muslim Peasants in Bengal, Aristocratic Muslim class in UP and Muslims landlords in Punjab-Sindh, Muslim League successful brought it together to create Pakistan although these class interest came into open conflict after creation of Pakistan. The Aristocratic Muslim class of UP were extremely frightened that once downtrodden Hindus of UP are creating challenges hurdles for their class dominance and thus the flag bearer of the Pakistan movement, those in Bengal wanted rid of landlords who were mainly Hindus while those Landlords of Punjab-Sindh were extremely terrified from the leftist orientation of Congress.

 

[M. Sarmad]

But how does it explain the opposition to Pakistan movement from Deobandis of UP. Anyway, have you read the book Facts are Facts by Khan Abdul Wali Khan where he had given great reference to declassified British telegrams, very interesting book. Anyway, the Pakistan movement was about the class interest Muslim Peasants in Bengal, Aristocratic Muslim class in UP and Muslims landlords in Punjab-Sindh and Muslim League successful brought it together to create Pakistan although these class interest came into open conflict after creation of Pakistan. The Aristocratic Muslim class of UP were extremely frightened that once downtrodden Hindus of UP are creating challenges hurdles for their class dominance, those in Bengal wanted rid of landlords who were mainly Hindus while those Landlords of Punjab-Sindh were extremely terrified from the leftist orientation of Congress.

Yes , those excerpts are from the same book .......

And Deobandis from UP opposed Pakistan Movement for the same reason for which Deoband Mullahs in KPK supported the British !! ... i.e MONEY

Ulema and Pakistan Movement

And I do agree with rest of your post ..... to some extent ........

 

[INDIC]

Yes , those excerpts are from the same book .......

And Deobandis from UP opposed Pakistan Movement for the same reason for which Deoband Mullahs in KPK supported the British !! ... i.e MONEY

Ulema and Pakistan Movement

And I do agree with rest of your post ..... to some extent ........

The article you posted is about NWFP which was predominantly Muslim and thus non-ideal place for British Hindu-Muslim fight. Anyway, the Deobandi movement originated in UP, I want to know how your claim fit in with opposition of Deobandis from UP to Pakistan movement. Do read the book Facts are Facts by Wali Khan.

 

[M. Sarmad]

The article you posted is about NWFP which was predominantly Muslim and thus non-ideal place for British Hindu-Muslim fight. Anyway, the Deobandi movement originated in UP, I want to know how your claim fit in with opposition of Deobandis from UP to Pakistan movement. Do read the book Facts are Facts by Wali Khan.

An ideal place for recruiting "Ahl e Kitab" foot soldiers against "anti God" Bolsheviks *
Hindus were irrelevant in this particular scenario ......

 

[FaujHistorian]

But how does it explain the opposition to Pakistan movement from Deobandis of UP. Anyway, have you read the book Facts are Facts by Khan Abdul Wali Khan where he had given great reference to declassified British telegrams, very interesting book. BTW, the Pakistan movement was about the class interests of Muslim Peasants in Bengal, Aristocratic Muslim class in UP and Muslims landlords in Punjab-Sindh, Muslim League successful brought it together to create Pakistan although these class interest came into open conflict after creation of Pakistan. The Aristocratic Muslim class of UP were extremely frightened that once downtrodden Hindus of UP are creating challenges hurdles for their class dominance and thus the flag bearer of the Pakistan movement, those in Bengal wanted rid of landlords who were mainly Hindus while those Landlords of Punjab-Sindh were extremely terrified from the leftist orientation of Congress.

Oh bhai,

Congress was dominated by 100% Hindu BIG businessmen and BIG industry (from day 1). Try to find out who was funding Tilak, and then who paid for Gandhi's "importation" from South Africa, Who kicked out Tilak, and who installed Gandhi on Congress.


In the beginning, these Hindu funders tolerated Muslim Gujarati and Memon businessmen.


However these Big factory owners were not willing to accommodate big landlords.

This is why Big landlords (Hindu and Muslims) formed their own parties.


Your post unfortunately presents only 30% of the picture. Which is unfair. But you don't even realize that your picture is incomplete. sadly.



p.s.

Indian banya (Hindu and Muslim) behavior is 180 degrees opposite from British shopkeepers.

this is why British shopkeepers support secular system
While Indian shopkeepers support parties like jamant Islami, and BJP.


p.p.s. Sorry I just saw this thread and hence my post. you all know I was on hiatus for many months.

 

[INDIC]

Oh bhai,

Congress was dominated by 100% Hindu BIG businessmen and BIG industry (from day 1). Try to find out who was funding Tilak, and then who paid for Gandhi's "importation" from South Africa, Who kicked out Tilak, and who installed Gandhi on Congress.


In the beginning, these Hindu funders tolerated Muslim Gujarati and Memon businessmen.


However these Big factory owners were not willing to accommodate big landlords.

This is why Big landlords (Hindu and Muslims) formed their own parties.


Your post unfortunately presents only 30% of the picture. Which is unfair. But you don't even realize that your picture is incomplete. sadly.



p.s.

Indian banya (Hindu and Muslim) behavior is 180 degrees opposite from British shopkeepers.

this is why British shopkeepers support secular system
While Indian shopkeepers support parties like jamant Islami, and BJP.


p.p.s. Sorry I just saw this thread and hence my post. you all know I was on hiatus for many months.

Your post give an impression that it was between 'Hindu' Indian National Congress and 'Secular' Muslim League. The post I mentioned is absolutely right. Their was already a grudge among Muslim elites of UP when Hindus rejected imposition Arabic script on their language in 1837 and got Devanagari script based Hindi officially recognized after decades of court cases, those UP elites were the pioneer of Pakistan movement because Hindus were asserting their political power which were until downtrodden challenging the class dominance of the Muslim elites, Punjab-sindh was until the end was stronghold of unionists. So, it was nothing about Hindu vs Muslim but class struggle.

As for Hindu nationalists, they never had any political power in entire Indian political history until 1980s, dragging them is idiotic. After post-partition India, the Communists were the next dominant political force after Congress party but they were still very very politically weak compared to congress.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Your post give an impression that it was between 'Hindu' Indian National Congress and 'Secular' Muslim League. The post I mentioned is absolutely right. Their was already a grudge among Muslim elites of UP when Hindus rejected imposition Arabic script on their language in 1837 and got Devanagari script based Hindi officially recognized after decades of court cases, those UP elites were the pioneer of Pakistan movement because Hindus were asserting their political power which were until downtrodden challenging the class dominance of the Muslim elites, Punjab-sindh was until the end was stronghold of unionists. So, it was nothing about Hindu vs Muslim but class struggle.

As for Hindu nationalists, they never had any political power in entire Indian political history until 1980s, dragging them is idiotic. After post-partition India, the Communists were the next dominant political force after Congress party but they were still very very politically weak compared to congress.

Indic bhai,

There were many angles. It is complex history.

If you just stuck with religious angles (like so many Ind and pak), you will get confused and never find the truth.

Thank you

 

[INDIC]

Indic bhai,

There were many angles. It is complex history.

If you just stuck with religious angles (like so many Ind and pak), you will get confused and never find the truth.

Thank you

India couldn't have survived with conflicting political ideologies of Congress and Muslim league so separation of Pakistan was good, there was agreement between them on absolutely nothing, I am not one of those who go around questioning the basis of partition. BTW There were religious angle to many events while others events were portrayed with religious angles.

 

[FaujHistorian]

India couldn't have survived with conflicting political ideologies of Congress and Muslim league so separation of Pakistan was good, there was agreement between them on absolutely nothing, I am not one of those who go around questioning the basis of partition. BTW There were religious angle to many events while others events were portrayed with religious angles.

Now you talk like racist Congress/RSS leaders of 1920s.

Just replace "could not" in your first sentence with "will not".

Hindu biggies stacked the game against MMP's long before you and I were born.

Hope this helps.

 

[INDIC]

Now you talk like racist Congress/RSS leaders of 1920s.

Just replace "could not" in your first sentence with "will not".

Hindu biggies stacked the game against MMP's long before you and I were born.

Hope this helps.

You are now libeling me. ok, saanu ki.

 

[FaujHistorian]

You are now libeling me. ok, saanu ki.

Just want to be educated about our shared history. That's all.

If you do study real history, you won't be repeating the same old mistaken terms. That's all.