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Ukraine says Malaysian airliner shot down, 295 dead: agency

they are quite and use the western propaganda to be forgotten for their incompetence

I hardly see their incompetence here, besides the fact that they flew over a "No fly zone" still being considered safe for every airline.

Usually airlines and pilots don't have training to dodge missiles, hardly their fault. But an expression of anger is due.
 
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Militias do have launcher of "Buk", but without radar it is just scrap metal, it can not be used. Militias do not have radar.

Doesn't need a radar in the sites, Russian can give/support via data link to the Buk-M system, otherwise the rebels can't claim to have shoot down Ukrainian gov. AN-25 and Frogfoot previously.
 
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Deleted posts suggest Ukraine rebels downed Malaysian jet in error
Social media posts by pro-Russian insurgents – most of them hastily removed – suggest the rebels thought they had shot down a Ukrainian army plane before realizing in horror that it was in fact a packed Malaysian airliner


Dmitry Zaks, Agence France-Presse
Published 7:12 AM, Jul 18, 2014
Updated 11:00 AM, Jul 18, 2014
mh17-wreckage-000_par7932660-afp-20140718_1FF3876BE8574061AFC02B4F1BFA88D5.jpg
WRECK. A man walks on July 17, 2014 amongst the wreckage of Malaysian airliner carrying 298 people from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur after it crashed, near the town of Shaktarsk, in rebel-held east Ukraine. Photo by Alexander Khudoteply

KIEV, Ukraine – Social media posts by pro-Russian insurgents – most of them hastily removed – suggest the rebels thought they had shot down a Ukrainian army plane before realizing in horror that it was in fact a packed Malaysian airliner.

The Twitter and blog messages were immediately publicized by top Kiev officials in their furious information war with the Kremlin for global opinion and the hearts and minds of ethnic Russians caught in the worst East-West crisis since the Cold War.

Confirmation of separatist fighters killing 298 passengers and crew on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur would further complicate Russian President Vladimir Putin's efforts to paint their uprising as a fight for self-determination.

Russia's state media avoided any mention of the controversial posts and instead reported militia leaders' later charges that the Ukrainian air force had shot down the Boeing 777 liner instead.

'We downed an An-26'

The rebels first claimed to have downed at least one Ukrainian army plane over the strife-torn eastern rustbelt on late Thursday afternoon.

The VK social networking page of Igor Strelkov -- "defense minister" of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic – first announced: "We just downed an An-26 near (the town of) Torez."

"And here is a video confirming that a 'bird fell,'" said the post.

The website then provides a link identical to that published by Ukrainian media in reports about the Malaysia Airlines jet.

The video shows locals referring to the same coalmine in the region mentioned by Strelkov.

The strongly pro-Kiev Ukrainska Pravda news site later posted an audio recording of what it claimed were the intercepted field communications between rebels and a Russian agent discussing the downing.

"We just downed a plane," a rebel the recording identifies as Bes (Demon) tells an alleged Russian military intelligence officer.

Another recording shows one alleged fighter reporting from the site of the plane's remains that it was "100 percent certain this is a civilian aircraft.

He spits out a Russian expletive when asked whether there were a lot of passengers on board.

'We have seized missiles'

The VK post was soon removed – but not before its screen grab was captured and distributed in an English-language press release by the military headquarters of Kiev's eastern campaign.

The comments attributed to Strelkov did not identify what missile was used to down the craft at what Kiev said was an altitude of 10,000 meters (33,000 feet).

But a message on the official Twitter account of the Donetsk People's Republic had announced hours earlier that insurgents had seized a series of Russian-made Buk systems capable of soaring to that height.

"@dnrpress: self-propelled Buk surface-to-air missile systems have been seized by the DNR from (Ukrainian) surface-to-air missile regiment A1402," said the post.

That tweet was later deleted as well.

Putin says Kiev responsible

Ukraine's pro-Western President Petro Poroshenko quickly called the incident a "terrorist act" and said he "could not exclude" that the plane was shot down by the insurgents.

But Putin said the incident would have never have happened had Poroshenko not ripped up a brief truce agreement and "resumed military activities in southeastern Ukraine".

Both separatist leaders and Russian defense officials also took pains to implicate Poroshenko's forces and erase all memories of the insurgents' initial pronouncements about downing a Ukrainian transport plane.

Rebel Donetsk prime minister Oleksandr Borodai told Russian media that his units did not have equipment capable of reaching the cruising altitude of a Boeing.

Borodai said it was "technically impossible" for the pro-Russian gunmen to have launched such a high-altitude strike.

And the Russian defence ministry argued that it was far more likely for the Ukrainian military to have fired the Buk missile.

"Statements by Kiev officials that such systems... were not used in air attacks arouse serious doubts," the Russian defence ministry said in a statement. – Rappler.com


Deleted posts suggest Ukraine rebels downed Malaysian jet in error
 
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CNN etc are out in full force pushing the Russia/"Russian" rebels did it line... nato/west propaganda machine is full steam ahead

look at this propagandist joker, Richard Quest.. wasn't he caught high on meth with a rope tied around his genitals and drugs on his person not very long ago :cheesy: New York, was it .. ? :woot:

there's a huge propaganda operation underway by the west at this time, I take it all with a fistful of salt and a shot of tequila but what's the counter for Strelkov's tweets right after news of the crash broke ? they're all over it like flies on shit

@vostok .. any inputs on the Strelkov tweet controversy ?
 
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One thing is absolutely certain from a purely military strategic standpoint. Russia has no idea when it come to cold hard forward thinking military strategic thinking. They hasnt displayed any forward thinking military intelligence in the last 100 years. Somebody please point to specific example and prove me wrong please. Anybody? Any Example?

This is just ging to push ex soviet states towards Europe and possibly NATO membership

Russia is going to take a big bite of a dog turd sandwich here. The average Russian citizen is going to feel it via heavy sanctions unfortunately.
 
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Very shocking news:

Flight MH17 crash: Was the cure for AIDS lost along with 100 top researchers?

Joep Lange, a world-renowned researcher and former president of the International AIDS Society, was with the group heading to the global AIDS 2014 conference in Melbourne, Australia.

The exact number of scientists he was travelling with has not been confirmed but delegates in Sydney were told that emails indicated around 100 attendees were on the ill-fated plane.

Nine British passengers, including a student, former BBC journalist and two Newcastle United fans, were among the 298 people killed when the Boeing 777-200 was reportedly shot down as it passed over the war-torn country on Thursday.

Trevor Stratton, a Canadian HIV researcher attending the conference told ABC researchers had been getting close to a vaccine against AIDS.

"What if the cure for AIDS was on that plane? Really? We don't know," he said.

"There were some really prominent researchers that have been doing this for a very long time and we're getting close to vaccines and people are talking about cures and the end of AIDS.

Flight MH17 crash: Was the cure for AIDS lost along with 100 top researchers? - The Times of India
 
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1) Rebels aim higher

The first evidence comes from earlier this week, with the downing of an An-26 Ukrainian military transport plane (pictured below) on Monday in Lugansk. Crucially, the aircraft was flying at 6,500m when it was hit. At such an altitude the plane was well beyond the range of the anti-aircraft weaponry that rebel forces were known to have at their disposal. If they had shot it down as they said, they did so with a new piece of equipment hitherto unseen in their arsenal.

Rebel leaders insist they do not possess rocket launchers capable of hitting MH17, which was flying at 10,000m, but they would have needed one to have hit the An-26.


2) The rebel armoury

The second set of evidence against the rebels comes from open-source social media. It points to the kind of anti-aircraft system that could hit a plane at 6,500 or 10,000m.

On June 29, an official account of the Donetsk rebels tweeted a picture of a Russian-made Buk missile launcher – a large, vehicle-mounted missile system with a range of more than 11,000m. The picture, which has since been deleted, was accompanied by text claiming the launcher was in the rebels’ possession.
Where it came from is not clear. In late June rebel forces over-ran a small military base near Donetsk that houses anti-aircraft unit A1402 of the Ukrainian army. It is possible that they captured the launcher in doing so. The Ukrainian ministry of defence, however, has said it has accounted for all 60 of those it operates.

Speaking to the BBC on Friday morning, the Ukrainian ambassador to Nato said he was in no doubt the Buk launcher had come from Russia.

Claiming their equipment was captured when it fact it was smuggled over the border has also long been part of the rebel playbook. “They try to cover Russian arms supply by publicly stating they have captured equipment in the days or weeks before they use it,” says Igor Sutyagin, a research fellow at the Royal United Services Institute and an expert on Russian weaponry and tactics.


3) Buk missiles in the area

The third set of evidence, again from open-source social media, purports to show a Buk system being moved around by rebel forces in the past 24 hours in the area of the attack on MH17.
The FT has reviewed numerous pictures and videos of a Buk launcher from different sources online. Their exact date and location cannot be verified, but image checking software indicates they are not historic. And in some, landmarks can be identified that indicate the location is indeed the town of Torez, close to where MH17 was blown up.

Several witness accounts of Torez locals also now claim to have seen a Buk launcher in the town. A video on YouTube shows a Buk launcher travelling along the road from Torez to Snizhne.The Buk system in question was “transported to Russia overnight . . . where it will likely be destroyed”, Anton Gerashchenko, an adviser to Ukraine’s interior minister, claimed on Friday in a Facebook posting citing intelligence.

Late on Friday morning another video surfaced on YouTube purportedly from eastern Ukraine. Depicted in it: a Buk, barely covered in a tarpaulin on the back of a lorry, driving away at speed towards the Russian border.



4) The rebel boast

The fourth piece of evidence was a claim made by Igor Strelkov, the rebels’ military commander, on his official page on a Russian social media site soon after Flight MH17 crashed. Mr Strelkov boasted that separatists had downed a Ukrainian An-26 military transport plane “in the area of Torez”.

“We warned them not to fly in ‘our sky’,” he said, adding there was video confirmation of the latest “bird drop”.

Around the same time, Russia’s state-controlled RIA-Novosti news agency carried a report, citing local “witnesses”, that a Ukrainian An-26 had been shot down “near the Progress coal mine” – the same location given by Mr Strelkov. Reporters from Russia’s LifeNews channel, seen as close to the Russian security establishment, rushed to the scene apparently believing a Ukrainian military plane had been shot down.

No An-26 was downed, indicating that the rebels may have mistakenly targeted MH17 and only later realised their mistake.

Indeed, Mr Strelkov’s post was hastily deleted as the reality of the situation became clear, and he said posts under his name were coming directly from the field, not from him. He denied claiming responsibility for downing the transport plane.


5) The intercepts

The fifth set of evidence is the most clear-cut. On Thursday evening, the SBU, Ukraine’s security service, released recordings of several conversations it alleged were between separatist rebels. Some involve senior commanders, including Colonel Vasyl Mykolaiovych Geranin, who the SBU say is a serving Russian military officer.
“Just now a plane was hit and destroyed by the miners group,” one rebel called Besler tells Colonel Geranin.
“On TV they’re saying now that it is an An-26, a Ukrainian transporter. But what’s written on it is Malaysia Airlines,” another recording says. “There is a sea of bodies, women, children.”

The recording is clear and gives no indication of having been staged. Western intelligence officials told the FT they believed it to be accurate.

FT
 
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So here is what we have ...

1 .Plane diverted directly into conflict zone
2. Two fighter Jets escorting the Passenger aircraft Over a conflict zone
3. Separatists Captures a Buk Missile
4. Ukraine also moves in Buk missiles with active Radar few days ago , there are also unconfirmed reports that their Radar was active when the plane was destroyed

any other info ??
According to CNN, there was bad weather on a more southern route, so several planes got rerouted.
 
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According to Flight radar24, which also monitors live flight paths, the airlines that most frequently flew over Donetsk in the last week were: Aeroflot (86 flights), Singapore Airlines (75), Ukraine International Airlines (62), Lufthansa (56), and Malaysia Airlines (48).

At the time of the MH17 crash on 17 July, a number of other flights were in the area.
Selected flights over eastern Ukraine on the afternoon of 17 July

_76348118_ukraine_flight_paths_624.gif



In the 48 hours running up to the MH17 crash, many airlines had chosen to keep flying in the area, data from flight tracker Planefinder shows.

_76348115_planefinderflightanalysis_624_latest.jpg
 
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The list of Passengers who holding Indonesian Passports:

1. Hadiono Gunawan/man
2. Yodricunda Theistiasih/woman
3. Ketut Wiartini/woman
4. Yuli Hastini/woman
5. Vickline Kurniati Kardia/woman
6. Supartini/woman
7. Hendry/man
8. Gerda Leliana Lahenda/woman
9. Werther Smallenburg/man
10. Jane M Hadi Soetjipto/woman
11. Wayan Sujana/man
12. Clarice Yelena Huizen/infant
May Allah accept them in heaven


This is acts of terrorism, someone must pay this barbarism.


Our heartfelt condolences to all the citizens of Indonesia.

Eternal rest grant unto them, O Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon them. May the souls of the faithful departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace. Amen.
 
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MH17: Russia Today presenter Sara Firth quits over Malaysia Airlines crash coverage - Media - News - The Independent

Sara Firth quit the post she has held at the Moscow based station for five years over what she described as their “total disrespect to the facts”, claiming on Twitter that the RT style guide rule one is: "It is ALWAYS *Ukraine's fault.

Firth, who was a London-based correspondent, told the Press Gazette: “It’s scary that it’s genuine RT guidance on how to do a story, and you have to believe it to succeed there. You stop believing that what they say is the way it is and you stop being useful to them.”
 
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MH17: Russia Today presenter Sara Firth quits over Malaysia Airlines crash coverage - Media - News - The Independent

Sara Firth quit the post she has held at the Moscow based station for five years over what she described as their “total disrespect to the facts”, claiming on Twitter that the RT style guide rule one is: "It is ALWAYS *Ukraine's fault.

Firth, who was a London-based correspondent, told the Press Gazette: “It’s scary that it’s genuine RT guidance on how to do a story, and you have to believe it to succeed there. You stop believing that what they say is the way it is and you stop being useful to them.”
just another one who wants more money

Gdpercapita.PNG
 
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just another one who wants more money

Gdpercapita.PNG

Our heartfelt condolences to all the citizens of Indonesia.

Eternal rest grant unto them, O Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon them. May the souls of the faithful departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace. Amen.

Right now I have yet another hypothesis on why the plane was downed. Before, I suspected Ukraine because I think they are more gangster. I suspect less of the rebel because militias generally do not have the SAM capabilities to hit commercial jet. Only regulars of sovereigns are capable of pulling that off.

Now I wonder if there is a scenario whereby Russia deploy some of their regular SAM units in Ukraine. These units may not have enough capabilities to fully identify incoming aircraft. Under combat condition whereby Ukraine deploy her air superiority against the militias, the militias may get fatigue. Then MAS flew by combat zone, and it was mistaken as military aircraft.

Russia and USA will KNOW who did it by now. USA, especially has the Space-Based Infrared System (SBIRS), on their satellite. The infrared footprint of a SAM that is capable of striking an airliner is not small and readily detectable.

Space-Based Infrared System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

300px-SBIRS-Architecture.png


This is just my 2nd hypothesis.
 
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