UK Bans Pro-Jihad Islamist Groups

[Dillinger]

Yes Nair , although they don't live in my area I know quite a few Indian Muslims (from my work), and they are all from Gujarat. Sadly Southern Indian Muslims are very, very rare to find. This is in line with the immigration that has come from India over the years, which has been nearly entirely from Northern India, Punjab and Gujarat to be exact. It would have been great to have Southern Indian Muslims here as they are a very spiritual people, sufistic leaning and an excellent counter weight to these extremists. Indian Muslims in general are a great community and I've always said this to the Pakistani community that they could learn a great deal form them when it comes to avoiding the problem of terrorism. It is indeed a very rare thing to see an Indian Muslim, even if he or she is third/fourth generation, to be involved in terrorism. In actual fact I'm finding it hard to think of an example.

I know many Bengali Muslims who tended to be concentrated in the East End. Bengali Muslims had a great track record, but now we have seen youngsters from their community running off abroad to join the latest Jihadi franchise ISIS. Which takes me back to my earlier post regarding internet recruitment.

This is one glaring problem, with the proliferation of propaganda videos and extremist material all over the net it is near impossible to block it all and impressionable people are to be found almost everywhere, Anjem and the lot only add fuel to the fire.

 

[waz]

This is one glaring problem, with the proliferation of propaganda videos and extremist material all over the net it is near impossible to block it all and impressionable people are to be found almost everywhere, Anjem and the lot only add fuel to the fire.

You're right and the only way to combat it is to release our own videos and give guidance to all these impressionable souls. Fight them at their own game.

 

[Dillinger]

You're right and the only way to combat it is to release our own videos and give guidance to all these impressionable souls. Fight them at their own game.

Its a little difficult to catch the attention of impassioned youth with what might come off as a sermon no matter how right minded it might be when ISIS conjures up images (albeit catering to the deranged specimens that populate our societies) of glorious war against the cruel and evil non-believers, counter propaganda and narrative formulation requires the governments of various nations, media experts and agencies to work hand in hand with the community. I can't spot any driven, focused, explicitly stated program of that sort in any country.

 

[Contrarian]

Yes Nair , although they don't live in my area I know quite a few Indian Muslims (from my work), and they are all from Gujarat. Sadly Southern Indian Muslims are very, very rare to find. This is in line with the immigration that has come from India over the years, which has been nearly entirely from Northern India, Punjab and Gujarat to be exact. It would have been great to have Southern Indian Muslims here as they are a very spiritual people, sufistic leaning and an excellent counter weight to these extremists. Indian Muslims in general are a great community and I've always said this to the Pakistani community that they could learn a great deal form them when it comes to avoiding the problem of terrorism. It is indeed a very rare thing to see an Indian Muslim, even if he or she is third/fourth generation, to be involved in terrorism. In actual fact I'm finding it hard to think of an example.

I know many Bengali Muslims who tended to be concentrated in the East End. Bengali Muslims had a great track record, but now we have seen youngsters from their community running off abroad to join the latest Jihadi franchise ISIS. Which takes me back to my earlier post regarding internet recruitment.

Can you identify or speculate why is it that Indian Muslims are less susceptible to the problem of terrorism?

 

[Kompromat]

Told ya all, one day this noisy goat will run out of his usefullness. Good riddance!

 

[waz]

Can you identify or speculate why is it that Indian Muslims are less susceptible to the problem of terrorism?

Well there are a few reasons.

-The dynamics of their homeland.
India's Muslims haven't really had events which changed psyches and introduced more intolerant strains of Islamic thought like the Pakistanis did with the Afghan war. Which I will say was the biggest disaster for Pakistan and from which Pakistan still tries to recover. These effects are also felt by expat populations who have strong links with their ancestral land.

-Policies of the state
India's Muslims belong to a secular state. Pakistan is an "Islamic republic", which was fine up until when general Zia took charge, and the concept took a whole new and more sinister turn, with what can only be described as extremist ideology being pushed as part of official state policy. This led to the rise of Jihadi groups, a rise in extremism in the country and so forth. These effects again are also felt by expat populations who have strong links with their ancestral land.

-Introduction of hardline so called "puritan" Islam
This has been in large part avoided by the Indian Muslim populace, in India and here in the UK. I have never felt more annoyed than seeing a Pakistani leaving for Haj or to work in the Middle East in western clothes or shalwar kameez, coming from a Sufi background, and upon returning calling everyone a disbeliever, wearing a Thawb and saying that everything they have believed in up until now has been rubbish. He then has a snowball effect on his family and they believe the same thing. They set up a mosque and it goes from there. Sadly impressionable Pakistanis have a tendency to believe anything a native Arab speaker will say, even if it is at complete odds with what he has grown up with, just because he speaks Arabic. The good thing is that the Arab Sufi scholars are trying to address this with their own websites and so forth.

 

[Contrarian]

Well there are a few reasons.

-The dynamics of their homeland.
India's Muslims haven't really had events which changed psyches and introduced more intolerant strains of Islamic thought like the Pakistanis did with the Afghan war. Which I will say was the biggest disaster for Pakistan and from which Pakistan still tries to recover. These effects are also felt by expat populations who have strong links with their ancestral land.

-Policies of the state
India's Muslims belong to a secular state. Pakistan is an "Islamic republic", which was fine up until when general Zia took charge, and the concept took a whole new and more sinister turn, with what can only be described as extremist ideology being pushed as part of official state policy. This led to the rise of Jihadi groups, a rise in extremism in the country and so forth. These effects again are also felt by expat populations who have strong links with their ancestral land.

-Introduction of hardline so called "puritan" Islam
This has been in large part avoided by the Indian Muslim populace, in India and here in the UK. I have never felt more annoyed than seeing a Pakistani leaving for Haj or to work in the Middle East in western clothes or shalwar kameez, coming from a Sufi background, and upon returning calling everyone a disbeliever, wearing a Thawb and saying that everything they have believed in up until now has been rubbish. He then has a snowball effect on his family and they believe the same thing. They set up a mosque and it goes from there. Sadly impressionable Pakistanis have a tendency to believe anything a native Arab speaker will say, even if it is at complete odds with what he has grown up with, just because he speaks Arabic. The good thing is that the Arab Sufi scholars are trying to address this with their own websites and so forth.

Thankyou. That was incisive.
A follow up question then. What you have mentioned is very Pakistan specific. I have seen a growing number of Bangladeshi's in the 90's becoming radicalized. Whereas Bangladeshi's were largely immune to it earlier like their West Bengali brethren. An overwhelmingly large number of Bangladeshi's are still in the sufi mould, but till the 90's, it was absolute.

So What gave way for Bangladeshis ? Any insight based on UK Bangladeshi's? Or why some of them have left their roots?

 

[liall]

Majority of British Muslim do not support nor do they care about this Andy guy. I don't know why British Media and Government gives him so much importance. He's not even an Islamic scholar. He holds no knowledge in Islamic theology nor is he qualified from any renowned Islamic university.

Andy is nothing but a former playboy who fell into the trap of MI6 just like many other former playboy British Muslims did.

I assume they don't arrest him or put him in jail so as just to keep Muslims in bad light? I mean why would any one living a good life in UK turn to terrorism. Not like they are starving or anything. Unless they are brain dead and could be persuaded to blow themselves up or turn extremist which I think would be a rare case.

 

[waz]

Thankyou. That was incisive.
A follow up question then. What you have mentioned is very Pakistan specific. I have seen a growing number of Bangladeshi's in the 90's becoming radicalized. Whereas Bangladeshi's were largely immune to it earlier like their West Bengali brethren. An overwhelmingly large number of Bangladeshi's are still in the sufi mould, but till the 90's, it was absolute.

So What gave way for Bangladeshis ? Any insight based on UK Bangladeshi's? Or why some of them have left their roots?

The key with the Bengali population was the introduction of Salafi Islam that has been embraced by many here. The establishment of committees that run mosques like East London, where Salafism is propagated as the official Islam that people should follow also spread their influence. These people are at odds with majority Sufi populace but their influence is spread by strong financial backing and hence followers grow in number.

 

[Chronos]

Yes Nair , although they don't live in my area I know quite a few Indian Muslims (from my work), and they are all from Gujarat. Sadly Southern Indian Muslims are very, very rare to find. This is in line with the immigration that has come from India over the years, which has been nearly entirely from Northern India, Punjab and Gujarat to be exact. It would have been great to have Southern Indian Muslims here as they are a very spiritual people, sufistic leaning and an excellent counter weight to these extremists. Indian Muslims in general are a great community and I've always said this to the Pakistani community that they could learn a great deal form them when it comes to avoiding the problem of terrorism. It is indeed a very rare thing to see an Indian Muslim, even if he or she is third/fourth generation, to be involved in terrorism. In actual fact I'm finding it hard to think of an example.

I know many Bengali Muslims who tended to be concentrated in the East End. Bengali Muslims had a great track record, but now we have seen youngsters from their community running off abroad to join the latest Jihadi franchise ISIS. Which takes me back to my earlier post regarding internet recruitment.

Keralites usually migrate to either the Gulf or the U.S. South Indians went as a wave to the U.S. as techies during the IT boom.

 

[Chronos]

Well there are a few reasons.

-The dynamics of their homeland.
India's Muslims haven't really had events which changed psyches and introduced more intolerant strains of Islamic thought like the Pakistanis did with the Afghan war. Which I will say was the biggest disaster for Pakistan and from which Pakistan still tries to recover. These effects are also felt by expat populations who have strong links with their ancestral land.

-Policies of the state
India's Muslims belong to a secular state. Pakistan is an "Islamic republic", which was fine up until when general Zia took charge, and the concept took a whole new and more sinister turn, with what can only be described as extremist ideology being pushed as part of official state policy. This led to the rise of Jihadi groups, a rise in extremism in the country and so forth. These effects again are also felt by expat populations who have strong links with their ancestral land.

-Introduction of hardline so called "puritan" Islam
This has been in large part avoided by the Indian Muslim populace, in India and here in the UK. I have never felt more annoyed than seeing a Pakistani leaving for Haj or to work in the Middle East in western clothes or shalwar kameez, coming from a Sufi background, and upon returning calling everyone a disbeliever, wearing a Thawb and saying that everything they have believed in up until now has been rubbish. He then has a snowball effect on his family and they believe the same thing. They set up a mosque and it goes from there. Sadly impressionable Pakistanis have a tendency to believe anything a native Arab speaker will say, even if it is at complete odds with what he has grown up with, just because he speaks Arabic. The good thing is that the Arab Sufi scholars are trying to address this with their own websites and so forth.

you are fairly smart.

For a ISI agent =P

 

[waz]

Keralites usually migrate to either the Gulf or the U.S. South Indians went as a wave to the U.S. as techies during the IT boom.

True. They should come here as well .

you are fairly smart.

For a ISI agent =P

Ah, all part and parcel of the training.

 

[mujhaidind]

Well US and UK had banned your man crush from visiting their countries too.
@Skull and Bones

 

[SiCiSi]

Haha the UK is trying to show they have balls. How cute.

 

[Jaanbaz]

I assume they don't arrest him or put him in jail so as just to keep Muslims in bad light? I mean why would any one living a good life in UK turn to terrorism. Not like they are starving or anything. Unless they are brain dead and could be persuaded to blow themselves up or turn extremist which I think would be a rare case.

Lots of reasons. Many Muslims attracted to extremists are young angry teenagers with no communications with their parents. Some happen to watch some propaganda video on internet and they turn anti West. There is also no effort by some Muslim communities to integrate, they all want to live in ghettos and only speak their language. Even for simple services they ask for translators instead of learning English.

British Intelligence also exploit these fringe groups. People like Anjem Choudhry are a valuable asset to the British Establishment.