“Udhar tum, idhar hum”: When Bhutto pushed Bangladesh to the edge of Pakistan

[Nilgiri]

as long as they are not Zimbabwean dollars

Nah nah USD only. I am just gonna play a little game with Mage. Just you watch

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I like answering your posts because they are solid facts, not 'I said' 'she said' 'you said'.

To be frank, I have never understood what Mujib was trying to do in the Agartala Conspiracy. It is definite that he had some conversation or the other with Indians in responsible positions. What I am reminded of most is Sheikh Abdullah's behaviour before he was deposed and jailed in 1953; both seemed to have been trying to open up a greater advantage for their people, at the cost of the ruling centre of power, and both paid a price.

You compared Bangladesh and Kashmir. That is actually a great comparison, and I felt like kicking myself for not having thought of it earlier. Just at the moment, however, it seems too complex a comparison to undertake, without reflecting and mature thought. At best, we can agree on your formula, the Indian military managed to stay in control, the Pakistani military lost control.



I suggest, without insisting on it, that in India, not accepting the existence of Pakistan was confined to a small group on the political fringes, that had no influence until it regrouped after the Jayaprakash Narayan Navnirman agitation had failed. It had insufficient influence to move against Pakistan; India's role in Indo-Pakistan war situations was passive, except in the case of the East Pakistan movement, intermittently, as in the Agartala Conspiracy (assuming that to have been real, for the moment) and in a sustained manner, from after Operation Searchlight.



Sadly so, and we all in each of our three countries have to live with it.

thanks there is always some silver lining. this forum is first step towards understanding each other.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Any Pakistani member you know here that believes that? Every Pakistani I have come across despises ZAB for whatever reason.

Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto !!, what a great leader he was, despite the blemish....

Bhutto was mainly responsible for the great tragedy.

Bhutto may have been responsible for many other bad things that happened to us, but not for the fall of Dhaka ...




Once Pakistan was created, Jinnah reportedly tried to open the membership of Muslim League(ML) to all citizens of Pakistan (irrespective of religion), or alternatively dissolve it (as it had achieved its goal) .. Unfortunately he was unsuccessful ... Jinnah, who had been a Bombayite, had no similar roots in Karachi (the new Capital) .. Time and again he was made aware that he was an outsider. Similarly, many of his close associates (like Liaquat Ali Khan, Ibrahim Ismail Chundrigar etc. ) had no roots in Pakistan ... This was one of the reasons the ML didn't want to hold general elections in Pakistan... The first General Elections were held in Pakistan in 1970 (i.e. 23 years after the creation of Pakistan), whereas, In India, the first General Elections were held in 1951-52 ..


After the death of Jinnah in 1948, there was not a single person in ML who could effectively replace Jinnah as the undisputed leader of the ML or Pakistan. This was when "Islam" was brought into politics by the Leaguers for the first time (to be used as a political tool) .. "Prostitution of Islam for political ends" as Iskander Mirza described it later !!

One very important (but often ignored) development was the 1954 provincial elections held in East Pakistan .. Elections were due in 1951, but the ML used delay tactics (though it didn't help them in the long run). The elections resulted in a landslide victory for the socialists and nationalists i.e. United Front which won 228 seats in a House of 309 (including nine reserved seats for women). On the other hand, the Muslim League, the party in power directly or indirectly ever since 1937, managed to get only 7 seats ... This heralded the rise of Bengali Nationalists .. But On May 30, just after two months, the ministry was dismissed and direct governor’s rule was imposed.... Now ML knew that in case general elections were held, the Bengali Nationalists would come to power in the center as well (as Bengalis formed the "Majority"), and the political hegemony of ML would be over ...

This was when ML decided to use "Islam" as a political tool against the socialists of East Pakistan ... And those Mullahs who had openly opposed Jinnah and proudly rejected Jinnah's "unIslamic" ideals, were invited to join ML (see Munir Report of 1954 for details) ....... The country was named "Islamic Republic" in 1956 ... We were the first one in the world to add prefix "Islamic" to our republican status .. ... Elections were further delayed by ML .. In 1957 most of the detractors came together in the left-wing and secular National Awami Party (NAP) and were confident that the party was in a good position to win the most seats in the promised direct elections (that were to be held in 1958). But then first Martial Law was imposed in the country in late 1958 by the "elected" president of ML who invited Army to take over hoping that this would keep Bengalis (and others) permanently away from the corridors of power, as they had almost no representation in the predominantly Punjabi Army of Pakistan ... (But this proved to be "catastrophic" in the long run ... No amount of "Islam" or "military force" could hold Nationalist Bengalis for long ... And in 1971, we paid the price of "selfish" policies adopted by the ML) ..

 

[MastanKhan]

Any Pakistani member you know here that believes that? Every Pakistani I have come across despises ZAB for whatever reason.

...Bhutto is bhutto. Perhaps the greatest Pakistani of all times..

Hi,

Bhutto was the most disgusting prime minister of Pakistan---.

He single handedly destroyed the pakistani education system---industry---civil service---govt service---you name it and he destroyed it---except for building the bomb---Bhutto made sure that Pakistan would be financially doomed for decades to come---.

 

[American Pakistani]

The meaning was found a long time ago. What remained was to plumb the depths of that which created it.

Like I said, that I said what I said. You can keep plumbing now cuz it will be hard to with 220 million people.

 

[ziaulislam]

Hi,

Bhutto was the most disgusting prime minister of Pakistan---.

He single handedly destroyed the pakistani education system---industry---civil service---govt service---you name it and he destroyed it---except for building the bomb---Bhutto made sure that Pakistan would be financially doomed for decades to come---.

pretty much what IK says in every speech these days without naming him

 

[Nilgiri]

pretty much what IK says in every speech these days without naming him

Does IK have a sweet spot for any previous leader other than Jinnah?

 

[rak_987]

Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto !!, what a great leader he was, despite the blemish....



Bhutto may have been responsible for many other bad things that happened to us, but not for the fall of Dhaka ...




Once Pakistan was created, Jinnah reportedly tried to open the membership of Muslim League(ML) to all citizens of Pakistan (irrespective of religion), or alternatively dissolve it (as it had achieved its goal) .. Unfortunately he was unsuccessful ... Jinnah, who had been a Bombayite, had no similar roots in Karachi (the new Capital) .. Time and again he was made aware that he was an outsider. Similarly, many of his close associates (like Liaquat Ali Khan, Ibrahim Ismail Chundrigar etc. ) had no roots in Pakistan ... This was one of the reasons the ML didn't want to hold general elections in Pakistan... The first General Elections were held in Pakistan in 1970 (i.e. 23 years after the creation of Pakistan), whereas, In India, the first General Elections were held in 1951-52 ..


After the death of Jinnah in 1948, there was not a single person in ML who could effectively replace Jinnah as the undisputed leader of the ML or Pakistan. This was when "Islam" was brought into politics by the Leaguers for the first time (to be used as a political tool) .. "Prostitution of Islam for political ends" as Iskander Mirza described it later !!

One very important (but often ignored) development was the 1954 provincial elections held in East Pakistan .. Elections were due in 1951, but the ML used delay tactics (though it didn't help them in the long run). The elections resulted in a landslide victory for the socialists and nationalists i.e. United Front which won 228 seats in a House of 309 (including nine reserved seats for women). On the other hand, the Muslim League, the party in power directly or indirectly ever since 1937, managed to get only 7 seats ... This heralded the rise of Bengali Nationalists .. But On May 30, just after two months, the ministry was dismissed and direct governor’s rule was imposed.... Now ML knew that in case general elections were held, the Bengali Nationalists would come to power in the center as well (as Bengalis formed the "Majority"), and the political hegemony of ML would be over ...

This was when ML decided to use "Islam" as a political tool against the socialists of East Pakistan ... And those Mullahs who had openly opposed Jinnah and proudly rejected Jinnah's "unIslamic" ideals, were invited to join ML (see Munir Report of 1954 for details) ....... The country was named "Islamic Republic" in 1956 ... We were the first one in the world to add prefix "Islamic" to our republican status .. ... Elections were further delayed by ML .. In 1957 most of the detractors came together in the left-wing and secular National Awami Party (NAP) and were confident that the party was in a good position to win the most seats in the promised direct elections (that were to be held in 1958). But then first Martial Law was imposed in the country in late 1958 by the "elected" president of ML who invited Army to take over hoping that this would keep Bengalis (and others) permanently away from the corridors of power, as they had almost no representation in the predominantly Punjabi Army of Pakistan ... (But this proved to be "catastrophic" in the long run ... No amount of "Islam" or "military force" could hold Nationalist Bengalis for long ... And in 1971, we paid the price of "selfish" policies adopted by the ML) ..

What kind of bs is this. Trying to sell your alternate history, idiotic and stupid. Looks like another dumb Tarek Fatah.

The military entered the fray in the early 50s, Muslim LEague was damaged and screwed by PRo-American burueaucracy and armed forces. Google Gov. Gen. Ghulam Muhammad who became 1st Finance Minister of Pakistan. He is credited with dismissing the first and Jinnah successor govt. of PM Khwaja Nazimuddin [Bengali;founding father] and pushing Pakistan into the control of civilian and military bureaucracy who called the shots from then on, fecilitated by a foreign superpower USA. He did by using excuse of Language riots in Dacca and Anti-Ahmaddiyah riots in Lahore in 1953. Picked a Bengali diplomat Bogra as PM. Ghulam Muhammad had health issues and First PM of Pakistan Liaquat Ali Khan was to replace him before he got assassinated. Bengali PM Khwaja Nazimuddin's blunder destroyed the foundation of democracy by appointing him Governor General.

Jugto Front [United Front] that defeated ML in 1954,was made up of former Muslim League stalwarts Suhrwardy, Fazlul Haque, only socialist Maulana Bhashani, and Islamic party Nizam e Islam. All these icons are part of Pakistan movement who believed in Pakistan in spirit.

Iskander Mirza the head of state at that time had more phobia of religious clergy than you have and disallowed Pakistan movement popular leaders like Moulana Zafar Ali Khan from getting higher position. It was islamic republic by name only as they upheld most of the 1935 British Act.

 

[M. Sarmad]

What kind of bs is this. Trying to sell your alternate history, idiotic and stupid. Looks like another dumb Tarek Fatah.

Learn some manners first,

The military entered the fray in the early 50s, Muslim LEague was damaged and screwed by PRo-American burueaucracy and armed forces. Google Gov. Gen. Ghulam Muhammad who became 1st Finance Minister of Pakistan. He is credited with dismissing the first and Jinnah successor govt. of PM Khwaja Nazimuddin [Bengali;founding father] and pushing Pakistan into the control of civilian and military bureaucracy who called the shots from then on, fecilitated by a foreign superpower USA. He did by using excuse of Language riots in Dacca and Anti-Ahmaddiyah riots in Lahore in 1953. Picked a Bengali diplomat Bogra as PM. Ghulam Muhammad had health issues and First PM of Pakistan Liaquat Ali Khan was to replace him before he got assassinated. Bengali PM Khwaja Nazimuddin's blunder destroyed the foundation of democracy by appointing him Governor General.

Jugto Front [United Front] that defeated ML in 1954,was made up of former Muslim League stalwarts Suhrwardy, Fazlul Haque, only socialist Maulana Bhashani, and Islamic party Nizam e Islam. All these icons are part of Pakistan movement who believed in Pakistan in spirit.

Iskander Mirza the head of state at that time had more phobia of religious clergy than you have and disallowed Pakistan movement popular leaders like Moulana Zafar Ali Khan from getting higher position. It was islamic republic by name only as they upheld most of the 1935 British Act.

What are you trying to say ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

This was written before reading the comment by @rak_987.

Please remind us all of the names of the leaders of the United Front, the socialists and nationalists, who won the provincial elections in East Pakistan. It is important that young Pakistanis, who hate and avoid learning about their own country's history, should be reminded where the leadership of 1970 were coming from, and what their leadership was. Nobody remembers, or even seems to want to remember the names of Sher-e-Bangla Fazlul Haq and his position in Muslim and in Indian politics, nobody refers to Maulana Bhashani, and nobody remembers that a very young Mujib spent most of his youth in jail, from 1949 onwards.

@Mage was probably being sarcastic or being conciliatory in his appellation of ZAB; to say in all seriousness what he did say would be inflammatory to say the least.

@CHACHA"G" has written a number of good posts, but he keeps harping on the distinction between Muslim and Bengali, on the movement for Pakistan having been a Muslim movement, on Pakistan being a Muslim concept, and so on. So what was the divide between that and the Bengali identity? Who brought it in? Are your youngsters, or even the older members even aware that Mujib was a Constituent Assembly member, and do any of them know about what he said on this matter?

Sir [President of the Constituent Assembly], you will see that they want to place the word "East Pakistan" instead of "East Bengal." We had demanded so many times that you should use Bengal instead of Pakistan. The word "Bengal" has a history, has a tradition of its own. You can change it only after the people have been consulted. So far as the question of One Unit is concerned it can come in the Constitution. Why do you want it to be taken up just now? What about the state language, Bengali? We will be prepared to consider one-unit with all these things. So I appeal to my friends on that side to allow the people to give their verdict in any way, in the form of referendum or in the form of plebiscite.

These are not trivial, certainly not in the context of these discussions. This passage shows how, one step at a time, Bengal was alienated and driven away and put down. For those who want to hear it, West Bengal was being destroyed in almost identical manner, but through economics, rather than through political sophistry; a brief reading of the Equalised Freight Policy imposed on India will explain what happened.

Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto !!, what a great leader he was, despite the blemish....

I was tempted to respond, but nil nisi, and all that.

Bhutto may have been responsible for many other bad things that happened to us, but not for the fall of Dhaka ...

Nil nisi mortuis bonum.

Once Pakistan was created, Jinnah reportedly tried to open the membership of Muslim League(ML) to all citizens of Pakistan (irrespective of religion), or alternatively dissolve it (as it had achieved its goal) .. Unfortunately he was unsuccessful ... Jinnah, who had been a Bombayite, had no similar roots in Karachi (the new Capital) .. Time and again he was made aware that he was an outsider. Similarly, many of his close associates (like Liaquat Ali Khan, Ibrahim Ismail Chundrigar etc. ) had no roots in Pakistan ... This was one of the reasons the ML didn't want to hold general elections in Pakistan... The first General Elections were held in Pakistan in 1970 (i.e. 23 years after the creation of Pakistan), whereas, In India, the first General Elections were held in 1951-52 ..


After the death of Jinnah in 1948, there was not a single person in ML who could effectively replace Jinnah as the undisputed leader of the ML or Pakistan. This was when "Islam" was brought into politics by the Leaguers for the first time (to be used as a political tool) .. "Prostitution of Islam for political ends" as Iskander Mirza described it later !!

One very important (but often ignored) development was the 1954 provincial elections held in East Pakistan .. Elections were due in 1951, but the ML used delay tactics (though it didn't help them in the long run). The elections resulted in a landslide victory for the socialists and nationalists i.e. United Front which won 228 seats in a House of 309 (including nine reserved seats for women). On the other hand, the Muslim League, the party in power directly or indirectly ever since 1937, managed to get only 7 seats ... This heralded the rise of Bengali Nationalists .. But On May 30, just after two months, the ministry was dismissed and direct governor’s rule was imposed.... Now ML knew that in case general elections were held, the Bengali Nationalists would come to power in the center as well (as Bengalis formed the "Majority"), and the political hegemony of ML would be over ...

This was when ML decided to use "Islam" as a political tool against the socialists of East Pakistan ... And those Mullahs who had openly opposed Jinnah and proudly rejected Jinnah's "unIslamic" ideals, were invited to join ML (see Munir Report of 1954 for details) ....... The country was named "Islamic Republic" in 1956 ... We were the first one in the world to add prefix "Islamic" to our republican status .. ... Elections were further delayed by ML .. In 1957 most of the detractors came together in the left-wing and secular National Awami Party (NAP) and were confident that the party was in a good position to win the most seats in the promised direct elections (that were to be held in 1958). But then first Martial Law was imposed in the country in late 1958 by the "elected" president of ML who invited Army to take over hoping that this would keep Bengalis (and others) permanently away from the corridors of power, as they had almost no representation in the predominantly Punjabi Army of Pakistan ... (But this proved to be "catastrophic" in the long run ... No amount of "Islam" or "military force" could hold Nationalist Bengalis for long ... And in 1971, we paid the price of "selfish" policies adopted by the ML) ..

 

[M.AsfandYar]

How about for 10 trillion?

Everyone's got a price.

 

[KAMDEV]

Long may it continue.
Amen.

amen .

 

[bluesky]

Active participation of Bengalis made the movement stronger. Heck even Liaqat Ali had to stand from Bengal to win a seat in 1946 election from Muslim league. The one who represented the Lahore resolution in parliament was a Bengali, Fazlul Haq.

You are correct. But, the sentences need a few corrections:
1) Liaqat Ali Khan could not be elected in the 1946 Provincial election under the British. He was probably from Maddhya Pradesh. He was very fit to be the PM of Pakistan after the 1947 partition, Qaid-e-Azam endorsed him. A Bengali Assembly Member somewhere in the greater Barisal vacated his seat and Liaqat Ali Khan was elected from there. But note that this is him who went against Bengali and uttered something like, "Jo Log Bangla Mangte Hai, Hum un logo ka Sar Kuchal Deyenge".
2) AK Fazlul Haq was the only Muslim Chief Minister in the entire Sub-continent in 1940. He declared the Lahore Resolution not in a Parliament, but in a Muslim League Conference. After this declaration, he was shouted with the slogan, "Sher-e-Bangal Zindabad" by the jolly participants. This is the venue that he received this title.

 

[KAMDEV]

Kal bhi bhutto zinda tah
Aj bhi Bhutto zinda hai...

bhutto was a great leader .

 

[M. Sarmad]

Jugto Front [United Front] that defeated ML in 1954,was made up of former Muslim League stalwarts Suhrwardy, Fazlul Haque, only socialist Maulana Bhashani, and Islamic party Nizam e Islam. All these icons are part of Pakistan movement who believed in Pakistan in spirit.

Very briefly,

Suhrawardy had led demands for an independent Bengal as early as April 1947, he was a Bengali nationalist who forged alliances with Communists and other leftist parties against the party he was forced to leave in 1948 i.e The Muslim League, and joined the Bengali nationalist Awami League

Fazlul Haq, a leftist and social democrat, had left Muslim League in 1937 to form his own socialist party KPP (later revived as KSP). He rejoined ML for few years but subsequently resigned. He was dismissed and put under house arrest on charges that he wanted independence for East Bengal

Nizam e Islami party was not a major political party. It lost on all seats in 1970 elections as it had distanced itself from the Bengali nationalists and socialists.

Jinnah too was once a member of Congress and an ambassador of Hindu-Muslim unity in British India before turning into a separatist, thanks to the policies of the Indian National Congress leaders

Similarly, Bengali leaders who once advocated Muslim unity and were members of Muslim League, turned into ardent Bengali nationalists, thanks to the policies of Muslim League leaders