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U.S. to give Pakistan 12 Shadow Drones

which model do you believe would best suit pakistan's need in the short and long term situation??

The answer is quite simple. Pakistan needs something along the lines of the MQ-1 Predator drone. Not necessarily as complex and sophisticated, but a UCAV that has an acceptable endurance, service ceiling and payload for armament delivery. Of course, the PA are much better aware of the requirements since they are actively engaged in the war. Nevertheless, according to my understanding, a UCAV that can fulfil the role of both aerial and ground surveillance during war and peace times. Remember that Pakistan is dealing with difficult porous terrain on the Afghan side of the border which is very difficult to guard and secure from the ground. Building a fence is almost impossible. In such difficult areas the UCAVs can play a very effective role. The UCAVs can provide both aerial and ground cover without over stretching ground forces and risking their valuable lives. Let's just take a leaf out of the American book and learn from their experiences. Also, for the armament you don't require long range and sophisticated types of A2G/A2A missiles. This is something on short-term basis. Long-term would be to have JVs with the likes of China, Turkey, Italy etc. for better UAVs/UCAVs.
 
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The answer is quite simple. Pakistan needs something along the lines of the MQ-1 Predator drone. Not necessarily as complex and sophisticated, but a UCAV that has an acceptable endurance, service ceiling and payload for armament delivery. Of course, the PA are much better aware of the requirements since they are actively engaged in the war. Nevertheless, according to my understanding, a UCAV that can fulfil the role of both aerial and ground surveillance during war and peace times. Remember that Pakistan is dealing with difficult porous terrain on the Afghan side of the border which is very difficult to guard and secure from the ground. Building a fence is almost impossible. In such difficult areas the UCAVs can play a very effective role. The UCAVs can provide both aerial and ground cover without over stretching ground forces and risking their valuable lives. Let's just take a leaf out of the American book and learn from their experiences. Also, for the armament you don't require long range and sophisticated types of A2G/A2A missiles. This is something on short-term basis. Long-term would be to have JVs with the likes of China, Turkey, Italy etc. for better UAVs/UCAVs.


In order to achieve such lofty goals we have to be realistic and acknowledge our weaknesses.

To facilitate the transfer of such advance equipment and tech, it is crucial we demonstrate to the Americans our intentions are sincere towards their interests. (RAW is the one spreading lies and deceiving both our countries through media agents, online (military forums..), Mainstream defence analyst.. to spread discord and distrust with aim of gaining economic and military strength. I believe it is pakistan's interest approve the current deal (which indian agents on this website would be against) we would be able to obtain far superior tech in the foreseeable future (period of 2 to 3 years....), and defeat indian proxies which are massacring thousands of our innocent civilians
 
In order to achieve such lofty goals we have to be realistic and acknowledge our weaknesses.

To facilitate the transfer of such advance equipment and tech, it is crucial we demonstrate to the Americans our intentions are sincere towards their interests. (RAW is the one spreading lies and deceiving both our countries through media agents, online (military forums..), Mainstream defence analyst.. to spread discord and distrust with aim of gaining economic and military strength. I believe it is pakistan's interest approve the current deal (which indian agents on this website would be against) we would be able to obtain far superior tech in the foreseeable future (period of 2 to 3 years....), and defeat indian proxies which are massacring thousands of our innocent civilians

I don't understand. What's so lofty about these moderate goals? Have some faith. We're not going to the moon, you know. A country that can produce nuclear weapons, ballistic and cruise missiles and now aircraft fighters can also produce a UCAV. Besides, the Pakistani UAV industry have already shown their willingness to showcase such a capability if provided with resources. Why not just join hands with China if we're unable to produce anyhting substantial? Why not provide the domestic UAV industry with the resources and give them an opportunity to prove their abilities?

Frankly, we don't need anything from the Americans. Neither do we need do demonstrate puppet behaviour in order to beg for tech that we are never going to get. Nor are the Americans going to provide such tech in another 100 years. The Americans aren't sincere and believe that they are doing Pakistan unprecedented favours by offering out of date Shadow UAVs. Certainly, the Indians play a very major role in shaping US military and non-military aid meant for Pakistan. That should stimulate the GoP to concentrate on gaining this much needed capability through other means which have already been suggested.
 
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Ya, How about giving the resources to local contractors and Engineering Firms collectively working with the software houses , its possible to achieve a UCAV comparable to the Reaper in a timespan of a year . I say the PA and the GOP should have a go to engage the local assets for such a project . Already some some students in my university are working on such a project . Its achieveable as illuminatus has stated ..!
 
Ya, How about giving the resources to local contractors and Engineering Firms collectively working with the software houses , its possible to achieve a UCAV comparable to the Reaper in a timespan of a year . I say the PA and the GOP should have a go to engage the local assets for such a project . Already some some students in my university are working on such a project . Its achieveable as illuminatus has stated ..!

Very much achievable. With very good results.

The other day i was talking to an officer, and he was telling that PA had imported bomb detecting device, costing around 10,000$ a piece, making, it in PKR 850,000/- a piece, with lot of spare parts maintenance to make the imported device keep working.

A PA Engineers Captain made a much better device nearly 100% more effective, with a cost of just 50,000PKR budget. With no major spare part and liquid gel issues as in the imported one.

The devise is now being made and given to field formations, for the time being to cantonment troops and then to other ones.

Plus, so many other achievements from our defence organizations is a testament to the fact that if we become serious enough, we can make such products.
 
I don't understand. What's so lofty about these moderate goals? Have some faith. We're not going to the moon, you know. A country that can produce nuclear weapons, ballistic and cruise missiles and now aircraft fighters can also produce a UCAV. Besides, the Pakistani UAV industry have already shown their willingness to showcase such a capability if provided with resources. Why not just join hands with China if we're unable to produce anyhting substantial? Why not provide the domestic UAV industry with the resources and give them an opportunity to prove their abilities?

Frankly, we don't need anything from the Americans. Neither do we need do demonstrate puppet behaviour in order to beg for tech that we are never going to get..

Have you ever considered that we actually do have the capability to arm one of our existing larger drone platforms, but that we are not doing it because we want to test our allies out on their claims that they are willing to help us with anything in the WoT?

Think about the above... we don't need the sat link control which the Predator has, and I am not sure where we are with domestic capabilities re that technology, but other than that, we have everything else required. And much of the info on our capabilities in these areas is in the public domain.
 
Have you ever considered that we actually do have the capability to arm one of our existing larger drone platforms, but that we are not doing it because we want to test our allies out on their claims that they are willing to help us with anything in the WoT?

Think about the above... we don't need the sat link control which the Predator has, and I am not sure where we are with domestic capabilities re that technology, but other than that, we have everything else required. And much of the info on our capabilities in these areas is in the public domain.

Yes, I'm aware of that. The Falco which the PA operates is capable of carrying missiles. I'm sure the top brass have got their answer now that the Americans have made the Shadow offer. The need of the hour is to deploy these machines in numbers across the border areas. Whether Falco or another platform is used for that purpose is perfectly fine with me. One thing that we agree on is that we require these machines to alleviate burden from the shoulders of our soldiers.
 
this thread should be named as US to give pakistan 12 shadow toys lol so taliban can play with them
 


ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Nobody else in the Obama administration has been mired in Pakistan for as long as Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates. So on a trip here this past week to try to soothe the country’s growing rancor toward the United States, he served as a punching bag tested over a quarter-century.

“Are you with us or against us?” a senior military officer demanded of Mr. Gates at Pakistan’s National Defense University, according to a Pentagon official who recounted the remark made during a closed-door session after Mr. Gates gave a speech at the school on Friday. Mr. Gates, who could hardly miss that the officer was mimicking former President George W. Bush’s warning to nations harboring militants, simply replied, “Of course we’re with you.”

That was the essence of Mr. Gates’s message over two days to the Pakistanis, who are angry about the Central Intelligence Agency’s surge in missile strikes from drone aircraft on militants in Pakistan’s tribal areas, among other grievances, and showed no signs of feeling any love.

The trip, Mr. Gates’s first to Pakistan in three years, proved that dysfunctional relationships span multiple administrations and that the history of American foreign policy is full of unintended consequences.

As the No. 2 official at the C.I.A. in the 1980s, Mr. Gates helped channel Reagan-era covert aid and weapons through Pakistan’s spy agency to the American allies at the time: Islamic fundamentalists fighting the Russians in Afghanistan. Many of those fundamentalists regrouped as the Taliban, who gave sanctuary to Al Qaeda before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and now threaten Pakistan.

In meetings on Thursday, Pakistani leaders repeatedly asked Mr. Gates to give them their own armed drones to go after the militants, not just a dozen smaller, unarmed ones that Mr. Gates announced as gifts meant to placate Pakistan and induce its cooperation.

Pakistani journalists asked Mr. Gates if the United States had plans to take over Pakistan’s nuclear weapons (Mr. Gates said no) and whether the United States would expand the drone strikes farther south into Baluchistan, as is under discussion. Mr. Gates did not answer.

At the same time, the Pakistani Army’s chief spokesman told American reporters at the army headquarters in Rawalpindi on Thursday that the military had no immediate plans to launch an offensive against extremists in the tribal region of North Waziristan, as American officials have repeatedly urged.

And the spokesman, Maj. Gen Athar Abbas, rejected Mr. Gates’s assertion that Al Qaeda had links to militant groups on Pakistan’s border. Asked why the United States would have such a view, the spokesman, General Abbas, curtly replied, “Ask the United States.”

General Abbas’s comments, made only hours after Mr. Gates arrived in Islamabad, were an affront to an American ally that gave Pakistan $3 billion in military aid last year. But American officials, trying to put a positive face on the general’s remarks and laying out what they described as military reality, said that the Pakistani Army was stretched thin from offensives against militants in the Swat Valley and South Waziristan and probably did not have the troops.

“They don’t have the ability to go into North Waziristan at the moment,” an American military official in Pakistan told reporters. “Now, they may be able to generate the ability. They could certainly accept risk in certain places and relocate some of their forces, but obviously that then creates a potential hole elsewhere that could suffer from Taliban re-encroachment.”

Mr. Gates’s advisers cast him as a good cop on a mission to encourage the Pakistanis rather than berate them. And he was characteristically low-key during most his visit here, including during a session with Pakistani journalists on Friday morning at the home of the American ambassador to Pakistan, Anne W. Patterson.

But Mr. Gates perked up when he was brought some coffee :lol:, and he soon began to push back against General Abbas. American officials say that the real reason Pakistanis distinguish between the groups is that they are reluctant to go after those that they see as a future proxy against Indian interests in Afghanistan when the Americans leave. India is Pakistan’s archrival in the region.

“Dividing these individual extremist groups into individual pockets if you will is in my view a mistaken way to look at the challenge we all face,” Mr. Gates said, then ticked off the collection on the border.

“Al Qaeda, the Taliban in Afghanistan, Tariki Taliban in Pakistan, Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Haqqani network — this is a syndicate of terrorists that work together,” he said. “And when one succeeds they all benefit, and they share ideas, they share planning. They don’t operationally coordinate their activities, as best I can tell. But they are in very close contact. They take inspiration from one another, they take ideas from one another.”

Mr. Gates, who repeatedly told the Pakistanis that he regretted their country’s “trust deficit” with the United States and that Americans had made a grave mistake in abandoning Pakistan after the Russians left Afghanistan, promised the military officers that the United States would do better.

His final message delivered, he relaxed on the 14-hour trip home by watching “Seven Days in May,” the cold war-era film about an attempted military coup in the United States.
 
I think Mr. Gates should understand well that they will be shown the middle finger if they continue with such cheap tactics.
 
I don't understand. What's so lofty about these moderate goals? Have some faith. We're not going to the moon, you know. A country that can produce nuclear weapons, ballistic and cruise missiles and now aircraft fighters can also produce a UCAV. Besides, the Pakistani UAV industry have already shown their willingness to showcase such a capability if provided with resources. Why not just join hands with China if we're unable to produce anyhting substantial? Why not provide the domestic UAV industry with the resources and give them an opportunity to prove their abilities?

I don't want to rain on your parade but the accomplishment you've mentioned have been achieved through massive foreign aide financially and technically....(i don't want to give out details to our enemies regarding such classified matters....

Yes they are lofty goals for us, considering the current situation we're embroiled in.

I don't know whether you're aware of the depth of what you are stating, it costs billions of dollars to produce military hardware, the main portion of cost consume R&D around 60% without even having a functioning unit for a project, this why countries opt to purchase the technology and hardware... fortunately Pakistan can obtained technology from such equipment and improve on the design which would spur industry etc.. without the heavy costs of R&D


Frankly, we don't need anything from the Americans. Neither do we need do demonstrate puppet behaviour in order to beg for tech that we are never going to get. Nor are the Americans going to provide such tech in another 100 years. The Americans aren't sincere and believe that they are doing Pakistan unprecedented favours by offering out of date Shadow UAVs. Certainly, the Indians play a very major role in shaping US military and non-military aid meant for Pakistan. That should stimulate the GoP to concentrate on gaining this much needed capability through other means which have already been suggested.


If we don't need anything from america why are we buying D-block F-16s from america which will exponential enhance are delivering capabilities as many senior ranks have on record stated...


American's have shown a willingness to provide us tech when we were true allies and vast media deception wars by India were limited to within it's border( India is aware of the bigger threat american+pakistani alliance poses to it's military superiority more importantly it would bankrupt India economically; without the means of stealing high paying professional jobs and services (outsourcing), india would essentially become what it rightfully is....

I would like to remind you of 1965 when we were able to conquer kashmire with the help of our most allied of ally, according to your reasoning it should of taken a hundred years.. give me a break, plus when the first batch of F-16s were provided to pakistan they were considered at the time first class tech, which very few countries at the time possessed, these indians myths of 100 years are lies...


don't get me started with jf-17 or MiG-29 engine, which india already has..

Please as i have stated before please enlighten me on these pakistani UAVs we are operating that has been able to take out targets or prevent terrorist from entering our country...

its not about tech.. it's about building and improving our relationship so we can kick hindustani *** as we were doing in the good old days of the soviet era. which india is afraid would initiate again, which is why they are causing a rift between our ties, being their typical instigator self... (warning to indian trolls this isn't east pakistan discussion or etc... so keep your trolling to yourself... plus we are addressing military capability this has nothing to do with underhanded covet intelligence operations...
 
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baajri ka drone hahhahahahahha Gusra drone oh god hahhahahaha :D:D
 
I have no intention of disrupting your discussion with illumiatus... In fact i was inclined to share my thoughts before you pulled some nonsensical phrases... Let me highlight those....

American's have shown a willingness to provide us tech when we were true allies and vast media deception wars by India were limited to within it's border( India is aware of the bigger threat american+pakistani alliance poses to it's military superiority more importantly it would bankrupt India economically; without the means of stealing high paying professional jobs and services (outsourcing), india would essentially become what it rightfully is....

I would like to remind you of 1965 when we were able to conquer kashmire with the help of our most allied of ally


its not about tech.. it's about building and improving our relationship so we can kick hindustani *** as we were doing in the good old days of the soviet era.


which india is afraid would initiate again, which is why they are causing a rift between our ties, being their typical instigator self...

Of all the crap above this was the master piece... Though it is off-topic yet if feel like replying, please do enlighten me on how India has caused a rift between US and Pak... i hope you are not saying that RAW planned 9/11 and put the blame on OBL so that US would come to AF, force PAK to do a U-turn on her policy wrt AF and then cause rift...

warning to indian trolls this isn't east pakistan discussion or etc... so keep your trolling to yourself... plus we are addressing military capability this has nothing to do with underhanded covet intelligence operations...

Its really nice to ask for others to not troll to a post which has all the above insightful phrases...I think i have made my point clear.... Just an advice don't use nonsensical pharases so that your otherwise thoughtful post can have more impact/punch...Upto you to take the advice or garbage it...

Cheers :cheers:
 
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