U.S. efforts fail to convince Pakistan's top general to target Taliban

[Mercenary]

Rubbish - you throw slanderous remarks around with such casualness and then have the cheek to suggest that what Pakistan really seek is weaponry against India as a price to act in her own interests. Please refrain making such statements, they are entirely misleading and unhelpful.

Are you joking?

Pakistan has used Afghan Proxies and funneled them into Kashmir to augment Kashmiri Muslims fighting India. Pakistani leadership believed to use the same template that they used to get the Soviets to withdraw from Afghanistan or the Hezbollah to get Israel to withdraw from Southern Lebanon.

These groups are a strategic asset for Pakistan to offset India's large conventional advantage.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Are you joking?

Pakistan has used Afghan Proxies and funneled them into Kashmir to augment Kashmiri Muslims fighting India. Pakistani leadership believed to use the same template that they used to get the Soviets to withdraw from Afghanistan or the Hezbollah to get Israel to withdraw from Southern Lebanon.

These groups are a strategic asset for Pakistan to offset India's large conventional advantage.

First of all you need to do a bit more research, the Afghan Mujahideen were never transferred to Kashmir. The ISI Chief at that time Hamid Gul thought that it was not a good idea because this move would have raised eye brows internationally. The Kashmiri Mujahideen were mostly local whom were fed up of being treated as second class citizens in India, to fight for their rights they took up arms and i support their cause 100%.

India by no means has the conventional superiority to force Pakistan into a submission, they have tried it numerous times with their deployments but they have been checked with counter deployments. Sure their Government and citizens like to boast that they can force Pakistan into submission through military means, we all know that its nothing but a propaganda gimmick to please their domestic audiences.

 

[MastanKhan]

I think priorities should be right and that is fighting terrorism, extremism and insurgencies rather then a imaginary or self made ghost.

Hi,

This ghost is a work of fiction---a work of fiction that is as a matter of fact a reality---a reality that has so many spins and twists in it that a common man doesnot want to believe in it---because he is reading the first page where it says " this here is a work of fiction " any link to actual incidents is coincidential and not intentional ". Which means that it is a game being played at the highest level of decpetion.

Now is this game being played intentionally or is it being played circumstantially---by the americans---the afghans and the indians.

I understand Kiyani's issues and problems---but then the pak generals should have thought about them in 2002 and killed the al qaeda at that time alongwith Bin Laden and Zawaheri---. Nobody else is to be blamed but the pak generals who could not properly analyze the situation in time.

I understand the issues that Kiyani has---but knowing beforehand what the U S is capable of doing---this issue should have been handled differently 9 years ago.

 

[Mercenary]

First of all you need to do a bit more research, the Afghan Mujahideen were never transferred to Kashmir. The ISI Chief at that time Hamid Gul thought that it was not a good idea because this move would have raised eye brows internationally. The Kashmiri Mujahideen were mostly local whom were fed up of being treated as second class citizens in India, to fight for their rights they took up arms and i support their cause 100%.

India by no means has the conventional superiority to force Pakistan into a submission, they have tried it numerous times with their deployments but they have been checked with counter deployments. Sure their Government and citizens like to boast that they can force Pakistan into submission through military means, we all know that its nothing but a propaganda gimmick to please their domestic audiences.

Sorry but your argument is fan boy propoganda.

Afghan fighters were indeed transferred to Kashmir as they were battle hardened and their skillset were needed in Kashmir. Please give me some tangible proof that Hamid Gul refused to transfer these fighters over. I need more than your word to convince me.

And you honestly have no clue about the current strategic dimension between India and Pakistan. Please read the latest IISS analysis of Pakistan vs India balance.

Sorry but I can't waste time on someone so out of touch with reality.

 

[Areesh]

Ths US has to chose between fighting terrorism v/s its China phobia. Does it want Pakistan's full cooperation in this WOT, or does it still want to install an Indian puppet in Afghanistan to strategically weaken China/Pakistan?

The jig is up, and it cannot have both.
It's time to decide.

Well said!!! The choice is up to USA that whether it wants to continue fooling around with China's phobia or wants Pakistan's support for WOT without anything as Bharati puppet in Afghanistan.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

US should go home and watch football let us watch cricket and lets get on with life

 

[LeGenD]

Militants of SAWAT were not local.
It has been confirmed by the locals and army both but if some one wish to mislead the people than such media shall be replied by our foreign ministry.

Can you provide some neutral sources which can validate this point?

Keep in mind that without connivance of local populace, militancy cannot get strong foot hold in any region, like it did in SWAT.

I am not open to claims that Pakistan is completely devoid of home grown non-state actors. And that all local non-state actors are foreign influenced.

Maybe our state policies have been unfair to certain elements in our country?

The extreme resentment against people of Punjab from other circles of Pakistan does have some basis.

Also, this is how TTP came in to existance?

As President Pervez Musharraf lifts the state of emergency, the Taliban in the tribal areas and the Northwest Frontier Province have united under a single banner, and a single leader. On Friday, a shura, or council, of 40 senior Taliban leaders established the Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan -- the Movement of the Taliban in Pakistan -- and appointed powerful South Waziristan Taliban commander Baitullah Mehsud its leader.

The shura was made up of Taliban representatives from the seven tribal agencies of North and South Waziristan, Khyber, Orakazi, Bajaur, Mohmand, and Kurram, as well as the settled districts of Swat, Bannu, Tank, Lakki Marwat, Dera Ismail Khan, Kohistan, Buner, and the Malakand division.

The Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan demanded the Pakistani military halt operations in Taliban territory and release of their members. The Taliban also stated it would continue the fight against Coalition forces in Afghanistan.

"The meeting participants have demanded an immediate end of the military operation being carried out in Swat, and given a 10-day ultimatum to the government to pullout troops from the area," the Nation reported. The Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan also demanded "the closure of the military checkposts in North and South Waziristan and release of all Taliban activists including former Lal Masjid Khateeb Maulana Abul Aziz."

"Our main aim is to target the US allies in Afghanistan but the government of Pakistan's ill-strategy has made us to launch a defensive Jihad in Pakistan," spokesman Maulvi Omar stated. "The government of Pakistan would be paid in the same coin now," Mehsud said.

Read more: Pakistani Taliban unites under Baitullah Mehsud - The Long War Journal

Now you see, how messed up this whole affair is? No wonder, US responses do not seem so much out of place.

Anyhow, US forces need to do more to monitor the influx of Indian trained TTP from crossing into Pakistan, while the situation is that border is completely empty and they do not permit the limited resourced Pakistan army to do the needful.

CIA is already doing something in this regard.

Here is a case:

MIRAMSHAH: US drones hit three vehicles in North Waziristan on Monday, killing 25 suspected militants and injuring four others.

According to official sources, two pickup trucks destroyed in an attack at around 10am were carrying arms and ammunition, apparently to Afghanistan.

They said six missiles were fired at the vehicles in Shera Tala village on a dirt track between Mirali and Thall after they left a compound.

At least 21 militants were killed and four injured. Officials said those killed in the attack in Mirali tehsil belonged to the tribal area.

Masked men secured the place and took away the bodies and injured people. The area is considered to be a stronghold of militants.

Hours later, a drone fired two missiles on a vehicle in Machikhel area, killing four people, the sources said.

The identities of the dead were not immediately known, but officials believed that most were Pakistani, rather than Afghan or Arab fighters.

Source: Three drone attacks in NW; 25 dead | Pakistan | DAWN.COM

Big question, why US declined barbing the border.
Shouldn't US spend few million dollars once in this war and fence the selected border areas, even better if mine them or use cheap drones for patrolling.

Because this matter is highly complicated.

'Fencing of the Durand Line ---- Will it stop the Cross-Border Infiltration?'

Sayed Wiqar Ali Shah

One unique feature of the Durand Line is that unlike other International borders it is not clearly demarcated. Approximately 2600 kilometres in length, it separates the territories of Afghanistan and Pakistan but remained undefined at places because of the terrain and local conditions. That’s being the main reason that the Talibans and al Qaeda found it vulnerable to cross it at their own will and at their own convenience. The tribes living at both sides of the Durand Line are Pashtoon, making it very easy target for these ’operators’ to negotiate with them and convince to provide support to the militants, exploiting their traditional cultural values and love of Islam. This goes on both sides of the Durand Line, of course, much to the chagrin of both the Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Despite their numerical strength and latest advanced technology the US and its Allies, including the NATO forces, failed in stopping the cross-border movement of the militants. The Afghan authorities blamed Pakistan for secretly helping the al Qaeda and its sympathizers of crossing the frontier and attacking the Coalition Forces thus creating instability in Afghanistan. The Pakistan government blamed the Afghan authorities of helping the Pakistani Talibans against the Pakistani establishment, particularly in Swat, with the full connivance of India the traditional foe of Pakistan. While the blame game continues on both sides of the Durand Line, couple of years back, in the early months of 2007, the Pakistan government floated the idea of fencing the frontier. They see it as an effective tool to stop al Qaeda and their sympathizers to infiltrate the border and that this step would undoubtedly provide a boost to stop the illegal entries into the respective countries. They considered it as something which should be done immediately and were looking forward to the support of the Afghan authorities. Contrary to their expectations, the Afghan authorities criticised this act of the Pakistan government. Hamid Karzai, the Afghan President termed it as a conspiracy against the Pashtoons living on both sides of the frontier.

Pervez Musharraf, then Pakistan President, tried his best to convince the Americans that this being the best solution for stopping the cross-border infiltration of the insurgents. In February 2007 the Pakistan authorities started erecting barriers and were busy in fencing the border at selected places. Meanwhile, Mohammad Akram Khpalwak, the Governor of the Paktika Province accused Pakistan of seizure of the Afghan territory. It was soon followed by skirmishes between Pakistan and Afghan troops at Birmal in Paktika Province of Afghanistan. It was reported that the Afghan troops started tearing down of the fences erected by the Pakistani authorities which provoked the Pakistani troops and they started firing upon the Afghan soldiers.

In the present study, after examining the background and circumstances which led to the decision of fencing the Durand Line, its practicality would be studied. By fencing the frontier at certain selected points whether the government of Pakistan succeeded in getting the desired results or not would be discussed further. Moreover, the repercussions of the move would be analysed in detail. Both Afghan and Pakistan authorities are doing their utmost bets to stop the cross-border infiltration but still are keeping divergent opinion on fencing of the border. Why? This and other similar questions would also be discussed in detail.

Read more in this excellent compilation: http://www.ecmsas.org/panels/P36_abstracts.pdf

I think many private Pakistani companies had been supplying such drones to US to control cross border movement on its mexico border than why not at the border adjoining FATA?

They are making some moves of their own:

US to deploy new intelligence drone in Afghanistan: report | World | DAWN.COM

Also, we cannot completely rely upon America to address our concerns. We have to make some of our own moves.

 

[MastanKhan]

Believe me, forces in Afghanistan would love it if the terrorists ran back (or were forced back) into Afghanistan, where they could be engaged and destroyed. Since U.S. boots in Pakistan are out of the question, that's the entire problem in a nutshell... how to get at the bad guys. Thus, the pressure on Pakistan to act.

These are the same that are bombing innocent Pakistanis at Mosques and markets. Beyond the tragic loss of life, try to understand how this is seen... most nations, if faced with such an enemy from within, would be pouring everything it has into snuffing them out, and stabilizing the region.

These enemies of all (TTP, Taliban, al-quaeda) could be caught between a hammer and an anvil along the border if both sides acted in a coordinated manner. That is what is hoped for.

Sir,

What did you think the real problem pak has with the U S---that is what it is---when Musharraf had the army moving into the area---the taliban would run into afg---and the u s millitary had conveniently moved to other provinces---evry single time pak had a major offencive going in FATA---the americans would negate its effect by starting their own offencive towards kandhahar---.

The taliban moved freely into afg from FATA---what game the u s was playing---!!!

Kiyani is right when he says that the U S cannot be trusted---there is so much deception in the actions that the u s millitary is taking and in the statements come out---.

The u s refused to strike the pakistani tiliban hideouts and insurgents on the request of pak millitary--stating that the u s had no dispute with the pak taliban---and pak says we don't have any dispute with the afg taliban---.

Baitullah Mehsud---the creator of taliban was at guantanamo---instead of being released to pakistan---he was released by the americans into afg---.

The last mehsud leader killed by u s drone strike was killed by mistake by the americans---the pak millitary gave the information that a different target was in that house--a target wanted by the americans---.

The problem here is u s---the americans have to come clean once for all---what is their game plan---what are they doing here in afg---9 years is too long of a time---they need to go back---. They cannot use afg to further their plans against china and use afg and india as their staging grounds agains the chinese.

 

[iPhone]

Sorry but your argument is fan boy propoganda.

Afghan fighters were indeed transferred to Kashmir as they were battle hardened and their skillset were needed in Kashmir. Please give me some tangible proof that Hamid Gul refused to transfer these fighters over. I need more than your word to convince me.

And you honestly have no clue about the current strategic dimension between India and Pakistan. Please read the latest IISS analysis of Pakistan vs India balance.

Sorry but I can't waste time on someone so out of touch with reality.

Awesome. So he has to provide proof that Afghan fighters weren't transfered to Kashmir but we're just suppose to take your word for it that they were sent to kashmir. That's fair.

 

[fatman17]

These enemies of all (TTP, Taliban, al-quaeda) could be caught between a hammer and an anvil along the border if both sides acted in a coordinated manner. That is what is hoped for

better post at least 250,000 US/Allied troops across the border to 'achieve your hope' as your Generals insist that the 2,500 km border cannot be sealed-off - and if u think that if all the bad guys are pushed across into a/ganistan, the good guys will eliminate them, sounds more like a 'wish' at best.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

"Since U.S. boots in Pakistan are out of the question,"
You have no idea of what you are talking about.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Hi,

This ghost is a work of fiction---a work of fiction that is as a matter of fact a reality---a reality that has so many spins and twists in it that a common man doesnot want to believe in it---because he is reading the first page where it says " this here is a work of fiction " any link to actual incidents is coincidential and not intentional ". Which means that it is a game being played at the highest level of decpetion.

Now is this game being played intentionally or is it being played circumstantially---by the americans---the afghans and the indians.

I understand Kiyani's issues and problems---but then the pak generals should have thought about them in 2002 and killed the al qaeda at that time alongwith Bin Laden and Zawaheri---. Nobody else is to be blamed but the pak generals who could not properly analyze the situation in time.

I understand the issues that Kiyani has---but knowing beforehand what the U S is capable of doing---this issue should have been handled differently 9 years ago.

Right on the spot. We are moving towards an era of enlightenment. Trust me, we are pushing hardddddd.

 

[KS]

It is, which is why we have over 150,000 troops deployed in FATA and engaged in active combat. However, given Pakistan's limited resources and the threat from India, any expansion of the conflict into other areas has to be a Pakistani decision that takes into account our constraints and ability to handle the fall out from an expansion.

Threat from India ?? C'mon we did not mobilize our resources just for fun or conquering Pakistan.

We were provoked and provoked badly by Pakistan based elements who had the covert support of the intelligence agencies. Any nation , let alone India would have done that.

The rule is simple - you dont provoke us, we dont attack. After all it is India that has the most to loose in a war, not Pakistan.

 

[KS]

Imaginary and self-made? Easy for you to state that when you are not the one faced with 33 Infantry Divisions, 3 Armoured Divisions, 3 Mech. Divisions and the entire Western Air Command of the IAF on your eastern borders postured to launch attacks on Pakistan when some non-state actor does something in India.

Lets start anew, stop meddling in Balochistan, lets talk about Kashmir issue and lets de-escalate with concrete CBMs on the Indo-Pak borders and then you will see that the militancy threat would automatically become priority #1 for us. Barring that, don't expect us to lower our guard against your sizable military presence right on our borders.

The militancy was a result of your actions in Kashmir. Let's treat the root of the problem and the symptoms will take care of themselves. The most recent uprising in Kashmir involved no militancy, yet over a hundred were killed. If militancy is wrong because defenseless civilians are killed, then what makes the actions of your forces right?

Anyway, if India were serious about the WoT and on ending tensions, Pakistan would be more than happy to put the Taliban as priority number 1. However, we all know what India wants as the final outcome of the War in Afghanistan, and therefore, India remains the top threat.

Please dont lower your guard --- Dont go into Waziristan --- dont dislodge the militants from their safe havens --- Result, no let up in suicide bombings.

After all there is the easy scapegoat of 'India is supporting the TTP' which the Pakistani public will readily swallow.

FYI we have nothing to gain or loose if you win or loose in the war againt TTP or if there is a suicide bombing in any of your city tomorrow. It is your country and your citizens that are being affected. Not India by a far bit.

So please remember you are not doing us a favour to dictate terms to us by asking to de-militarize first on our side. Our Army will always be there to safeguard our borders. It is up to your political/military leadership to prioritize the threats the Pakistani state is today facing. Its not India's business.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Pakistan was lied to and put together about the 'hammer and anvil' approach---it was just one of those grand standing moments that the u s milltary and politicians had those which are known as the tv grandstanding moments---.

I have great respect for my american friends and colleagues---but you guys were lied to and misled by the u s govt and the millitary generals.