Type 052D DDG News & Discussions

[rcrmj]

But what's the point in having ultra new VLS if it has lesser missiles?
Only explanation i can think of is modularity?With same VLS it can carry any mix,optimized for particular mission at hand?

the new VSL can be quarter-packed, which means one cell can contain 4 HQ-16B medium range anti-air missiles and 4 anti-sub missiles, the MK-57 from U.S navy is the same which is significantly larger than MK-41 they are using,

and Zumwalt-class has 12,000 ton displacement but only 80 cells which much less than 9000 ton Arleigh Burke class with 122 cells

mission flexibility is very important for $billion worth battleships, it is just not realistic to spend hundreds of millions to build a ship which can only carry one or two types of missile``

for example, if the mission for 052D is to provide first layer missile/air defence for the AC groups, it can carry 64 HQ-9B which has 200KM plus range, if for second layer 052D can carry like 16 HQ-9B and 192 units of HQ-16B (75KM effective range), and so on for anti-ship, anti-sub or land attack missions

 

[rcrmj]

Euh.... ABM... are you sure that HQ-26 can be held on the new universal VLS system, HQ-26 is a 3-stage missile...?

I wonder if a DH-10 / CJ-10 is not too large (in terms of diameter) for this new VLS system as well.

Well, wait & see.

An another "error", is not the VLS who is hot/cold but the launcher module. We can only say that the new VLS system can hold both cold launcher and hot launcher (CCL = Concentric Canister Launcher).

For this last point around CCL hot launcher, this explains why in the new VLS system we can't find the common exhaust tunnel. Each launcher has it's own circular exhaust tunnel. I have a lot of chinese R&D documents on it if someone wants to learn more.

Henri K.

this new VLS has three variants, the launch module width are all the same 800mm by 800mm, but the length is 3 meters, 7 meters (likely the one on 052D) and 11 meters (for HQ-26, CJ-10 and big ones) respectively

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

the new VSL can be quarter-packed, which means one cell can contain 4 HQ-16B medium range anti-air missiles and 4 anti-sub missiles, the MK-57 from U.S navy is the same which is significantly larger than MK-41 they are using,

and Zumwalt-class has 12,000 ton displacement but only 80 cells which much less than 9000 ton Arleigh Burke class with 122 cells

mission flexibility is very important for $billion worth battleships, it is just not realistic to spend hundreds of millions to build a ship which can only carry one or two types of missile``

for example, if the mission for 052D is to provide first layer missile/air defence for the AC groups, it can carry 64 HQ-9B which has 200KM plus range, if for second layer 052D can carry like 16 HQ-9B and 192 units of HQ-16B (75KM effective range), and so on for anti-ship, anti-sub or land attack missions

Excellent clarification.Thanks.

 

[aliaselin]

there is still no updates or 'exposure' on new VSL, HQ-9B, HQ-16B and new anti-ship missiles, and also no signs of new C4ISR, battle control and long range early warring radar systems are getting ready yet

until 052D is fully operational then we can safely say 055 is read to launch, just like it took 8 years to launch 052D after the first 052C was built

This is only your thought of 055, but not PLAN's

 

[cirr]

I was talking about the place for inclined ASCM launcher. As I don't see any more place for inclined ASCM launcher, I suppose that all ASCM are integrated into the VLS systems. But this has to be confirmed.

And, if that's the case, there is still a difference comparing to the latest indian destroyer. For Type 052D, the VLS system is compatible to all types of munition (it seems to be the case anyway according to the specification seen upper from GJB-5860-2006), from ASCM, ASROC to SAM. Whereas on P15A the SAM has it's own VLS system, and the ASCM an another one, so two VLS systems are differents.



Wrong reference for HQ-16.

The true versionning of HQ-16 is as follows -

The basic version is the naval one, called HQ-16 (Or more precisely H/AJK-16).

From this basic version 2 branches are developed, one continues for naval usage, one for ground version -

Naval version : HQ-16 ==> HQ-16G

Ground version : (from HQ-16) HQ-16A ==> HQ-16B

So if you talk about the new naval variant of HQ-16, you should talk about HQ-16G.

Hope this helps.

Henri K.

Yes，I concur with you on the above。

Also it is confirmative that vertically launched YJ-18A is the standard issue for anti-ship、land attack roles。

 

[cirr]

Excellent clarification.Thanks.

The new VLS has 3 variants of different sizes，making it suitable for installaion onboard warships of almost any displacements。

Also not to forget that the new system was developed with the up coming Type 55 DDG in mind。

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

the new VSL can be quarter-packed, which means one cell can contain 4 HQ-16B medium range anti-air missiles and 4 anti-sub missiles, the MK-57 from U.S navy is the same which is significantly larger than MK-41 they are using,

and Zumwalt-class has 12,000 ton displacement but only 80 cells which much less than 9000 ton Arleigh Burke class with 122 cells

mission flexibility is very important for $billion worth battleships, it is just not realistic to spend hundreds of millions to build a ship which can only carry one or two types of missile``

for example, if the mission for 052D is to provide first layer missile/air defence for the AC groups, it can carry 64 HQ-9B which has 200KM plus range, if for second layer 052D can carry like 16 HQ-9B and 192 units of HQ-16B (75KM effective range), and so on for anti-ship, anti-sub or land attack missions

Only Tico is 122 cells, while Burke I is 90 cells and Burke II/IIA are 96 cell.

 

[Genesis]

looking at the comments here, while the Type 52D is not in a class of its own, it can certainly hold its own against the Americans in a battle. It would make the Americans think twice about a battle in Chinese waters.

The balance of power is shifting decidedly in our favor.

However, now more than ever I sort of doubt the type 55 being ready before 2018 if not 2020, being that we have no even inducted the type 52D, and have no real tests of this in a combat situation. Perhaps I am wrong?

Also, with the latest on carrier group including the 52C and not the D, is that until induction or does the 52D have a different role? Like going solo or just not in a carrier group until later.

 

[cnleio]

052C vs 052D DDG

 

[klub]

IF I may say so, the type 52D is a great increment over the type 52C. But unfortunately it shows a lack of vision on part of China. Most navies are evolving their doctrines to suit themselves.

A small case study :

Russia -
A navy now known as the graveyard of the Soviets has started to reinvent themselves. RN currently relies on it's 25000 ton behemoth of the Kirov class to deliver firepower while The old soviet stock of destroyers and frigates act as a support group. Of late it has started a top heavy - medium - low program of shipbuilding. Russian frigates and corvettes come second only to Western standards. The Russian corvettes are suprisingly well armed for a 2000 ton class.

New Additions -

# Kirov Class resurrected
#5000 - 6000 ton frigates
#2000 -3000 ton corvettes
#Nuclear submarines
#Upgraded variants of Kilo submarines
#Aircraft carrier ( refitted)

The above arrangement is best for a close to shore to medium range naval engagement. Something Russia will follow suit in line with the American pivot.

America-

With a monstrous defence budget of nearly 900bn $ this giant needs no announcement. Having a battle tonnage larger than the next 11 navies it is set for the 21st century. Where Zumwalt class destroyers of no.s 3 may provide an anchor for future battle groups , a Flight III Arleigh Burke will incorporate advances from the DDG - 1000 like stealth, 155mm guns and a possibly new generation of Aegis not to mention a new nuclear submarine fleet. It's LCS ships act as anti submarine warfare / minesweeper and amphibious ships with passive anti ship abilities. It's only job - protect the big guns.

New Additions -

#DDG - 1000 X 3
#Arleigh Burke Flt III
#Nuclear submarines
#LCS
#Aircraft Carriers

India -

Walia brothers of Mumbai had built the first modern warship ship for the British Navy int he 1800s. Since then he shipbuilding industry had declined until a new renaissance heralded by JVs and economic liberalization in the 1990s. Traditionally India's fleet was directed at Pakistan to stem adventurism and was instrumental in 1971 in deterring American interference with Soviet help in the 1971 Bangladesh Liberation War. Since the 2000s, focus has shifted to indigenisation of warship and more global presence in the IOR. It is estimated that India will order upto 100 warships alongside China by 2032.

New Additions -

#Aircraft Carriers X 3
#Destroyers ( 8000 tons present in P15A)
#FrigateS(7000 tons P17A)
#Corvettes(3000 tons)
#Nuclear Submarines
#Diesel stealth submarines

China -

The dragons rise heralds a new geo strategic scenario in the SCS. With additions that modernize it's existing fleets and replace the soviet legacy. China's global reach cannot be doubted. However a resurgent America and Japanese naval programmes complicate it. India too is a distant but visible presence here. China must evolve a doctrine of passive activism in rder to create a viable deterrent.

New additions -

#Lianoning AC
#(7200 Tons) Destroyers
#(5000 tons) frigate
#(1500 tons) corvette
#(12000 tons) nuclear submarines
#Diesel submarines
#Stealth missile boats

IF I may say so, the type 52D is a great increment over the type 52C. But unfortunately it shows a lack of vision on part of China. Most navies are evolving their doctrines to suit themselves.

A small case study :

Russia -
A navy now known as the graveyard of the Soviets has started to reinvent themselves. RN currently relies on it's 25000 ton behemoth of the Kirov class to deliver firepower while The old soviet stock of destroyers and frigates act as a support group. Of late it has started a top heavy - medium - low program of shipbuilding. Russian frigates and corvettes come second only to Western standards. The Russian corvettes are suprisingly well armed for a 2000 ton class.

New Additions -

# Kirov Class resurrected
#5000 - 6000 ton frigates
#2000 -3000 ton corvettes
#Nuclear submarines
#Upgraded variants of Kilo submarines
#Aircraft carrier ( refitted)

The above arrangement is best for a close to shore to medium range naval engagement. Something Russia will follow suit in line with the American pivot.

America-

With a monstrous defence budget of nearly 900bn $ this giant needs no announcement. Having a battle tonnage larger than the next 11 navies it is set for the 21st century. Where Zumwalt class destroyers of no.s 3 may provide an anchor for future battle groups , a Flight III Arleigh Burke will incorporate advances from the DDG - 1000 like stealth, 155mm guns and a possibly new generation of Aegis not to mention a new nuclear submarine fleet. It's LCS ships act as anti submarine warfare / minesweeper and amphibious ships with passive anti ship abilities. It's only job - protect the big guns.

New Additions -

#DDG - 1000 X 3
#Arleigh Burke Flt III
#Nuclear submarines
#LCS
#Aircraft Carriers

India -

Walia brothers of Mumbai had built the first modern warship ship for the British Navy int he 1800s. Since then he shipbuilding industry had declined until a new renaissance heralded by JVs and economic liberalization in the 1990s. Traditionally India's fleet was directed at Pakistan to stem adventurism and was instrumental in 1971 in deterring American interference with Soviet help in the 1971 Bangladesh Liberation War. Since the 2000s, focus has shifted to indigenisation of warship and more global presence in the IOR. It is estimated that India will order upto 100 warships alongside China by 2032.

New Additions -

#Aircraft Carriers X 3
#Destroyers ( 8000 tons present in P15A)
#FrigateS(7000 tons P17A)
#Corvettes(3000 tons)
#Nuclear Submarines
#Diesel stealth submarines

China -

The dragons rise heralds a new geo strategic scenario in the SCS. With additions that modernize it's existing fleets and replace the soviet legacy. China's global reach cannot be doubted. However a resurgent America and Japanese naval programmes complicate it. India too is a distant but visible presence here. China must evolve a doctrine of passive activism in rder to create a viable deterrent.

New additions -

#Lianoning AC
#(7200 Tons) Destroyers
#(5000 tons) frigate
#(1500 tons) corvette
#(12000 tons) nuclear submarines
#Diesel submarines
#Stealth missile boats

 

[cnleio]

What i know, 2013-2015 PLAN will own surface warships include
N? x 055 DDG (10,000ton)
10 x 052C/D DDG (6000ton)
20+ x 054A frigate (4000ton)
30+ x 056 corvette (1500ton)

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

What i know, 2013-2015 PLAN will own surface warships include
N? x 055 DDG (10,000ton)
10 x 052C/D DDG (6000ton)
20+ x 054A frigate (4000ton)
30+ x 056 corvette (1500ton)

The Type 055 is 12000 tons, while the Type 052D is more than 7000 tons, since many CDers actually got confused with MW/KW/shp.

Akizuki got a COGAG system of the total output of 64000 shp, while the Type 052D got a total output of 2 x 28MW + 2 x 6MW, which converts as 91800 shp, so the Type 052D still outputs more than the Akizuki class despite it uses a CODAG system.

 

[hk299792458]

YJ-18A and HHQ-9B ?

Henri K.

 

[hk299792458]

On one of the Type 909 testbed boats, 891, we can find the Type 346A AESA and the new universal VLS system of Type 052D destroyers...

This picture has been taken more than one year ago.

Henri K.

 

[rcrmj]

This is only your thought of 055, but not PLAN's

the state of development of 055 is all but speculation, as it is Chinese defence tradition, like the j-20 and j-31 etc,

so at the moment all I have said are stuffs we can gather from reputed Chinese forums nothing more than that...

Only Tico is 122 cells, while Burke I is 90 cells and Burke II/IIA are 96 cell.

ur right, my mistake, anyway tico is just over 9000 tons