Two Pakistani British Girls Marry Each Other

[Raja.Pakistani]

If I understood you correctly, there is no straight verse that can ascertain somebody is Muslim or not, the same way one can straightforward say lying is unislamic because of chapter xxx verse yyy.
Its some human beings (learned people )who take all these quranic dos and dont and decide which is bare minimum(vitally important) to be considered muslim.

Suppose quran says
1. muslim should/not do x
2. muslim should/not do y
3. muslim should/not do z

Picking which of x, y , z is bare minimum to be called muslim is done by human.

does quran specify those basic reqirements to be basic?

sure its left for human to interpret the Quran or quranic ruiling. I already mentioned what are those fundamental concepts in Islam

Oneness of Allah, believe in Quran as words of God, believe in prophets/angels/resurrection and day of judgement. This part refer to Aqeedah. There are also five pillars of Islam which include Shahada, Salah(prayer), Alms-giving, fasting and Pilgrimage

Now question is what it actually mean to believe in Quran? It means whatever is written in Quran is true/valid and is word of God and you accept it. For example if a person believe lying/killing is wrong and its not part of Islam but still he commit these acts then he commit a sin but still a Muslim but if he say killing/lying is part of Islam then he commit Kufr by rejecting the quranic teaching. Similarly committing homosexuality is sin but making it part of Islam/quran is kufr

Kufr[ : denial or rejection of the truth]

 

[Star Wars]

Their Personal life...stop being so judgmental..... Its not abnormal...its just differently normal

 

[bangbros]

abnormal things are being branded as normal

i agree with u on this,who knows may be in future women will marry animals....they are changing the course of nature..

 

[Dubious]

Evolutionary theory proposes that adaptive traits are reproduced more successfully than maladaptive traits. Accordingly, natural selection should favour heterosexuality as it facilitates reproduction and the propagation of genes. However, the question becomes, what has maintained homosexuality in a small but consistent percentage of the human population? Research into the evolutionary and hormonal factors associated with a homosexual orientation have yielded provocative but inconsistent results. It also suggests that human sexual orientation, and in particular homosexual orientation, is too complex to be described by one simple model or a single research discipline. The current paper treads a new path and emphasises an integrative approach for the understanding of homosexuality. The authors examine the combined effects of evolutionary factors and neurohormonal processes on the development of a homosexual orientation. It is suggested that research into the topic could benefit from an examination of and change in some of the assumptions upon which much past research has been based.

-Neuroendocrinology Letters 2001

The paper shows:

A recently emerging view in evolutionary psychology is that some homosexual behavior
was adaptive during the course of human evolution, and there was selection for it. However, there appear to be two major perspectives regarding this. One emphasizes that homosexual behavior itself reinforced same-sex alliances, which contributed directly to survival and indirectly to reproduction...
The other perspective also holds that homosexual behavior may have been adaptive

For those who state otherwise please bring forward your research done...

As a geneticist I have not read a single article on Homosexuality being gene related...All are assumptions Not 1 has pointed out a gene responsible for homosexuality so HOW can such an act be natural when you DNA never sent you the msg for such a thing....

And if you look into behavioral journals...Well, behavior is LEARNT not natural!

Those quoting from Wiki....go away trolls!

 

[Dubious]

So basically islam says nothing about their status as muslim.
They commit sin, that bit is clear.
The argument about ahmedis not being muslim is they violate the basic tenet of islam. I am trying to ascertain how basic is the rule that homosexuals violate. Is it basic enough to declare them non-muslim?

@hinduguy

Mr. Troll no one is saying they are Non Muslims....We are saying they have sinned ....A major sin! FULL STOP!

As for Ahmadis not sure why you are bringing this in coz I recall I answered you on that thread too...Ahmadis went against Quran where I quoted from the Quran that Prophet Muhammad is the last msgr!

"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Apostle of God, and the Seal of the Prophets: and God has full knowledge of all things. (The Noble Quran, 33:40)"

Now as what @Raja.Pakistani said Kufr = denial of the truth in this case truth = Quran

So denying ANYTHING from the Quran = Kufr and 1 who does kufr = Kaafir

Now if these girls DENY that Homosexuality is not a sin = deny Quran therefore they have done kufr and therefore CAN be termed Kaafir

However if they are ignorant or just wish to live a sinful life knowingly...Then they are still Muslims...

Besides in order to be considered Non Muslim...You have to go against the Shahadah (No God but ALLAH and Prophet his msgr)...denying of GOD and/ or Prophet...
@Awesome @WebMaster @Aeronaut @Oscar @Loki please close this thread it is getting derailed and will soon be off topic...

From Science to Islam it has been bouncing about without conclusion!

 

[livingdead]

@hinduguy

Mr. Troll no one is saying they are Non Muslims....We are saying they have sinned ....A major sin! FULL STOP!

As for Ahmadis not sure why you are bringing this in coz I recall I answered you on that thread too...Ahmadis went against Quran where I quoted from the Quran that Prophet Muhammad is the last msgr!



Now as what @Raja.Pakistani said Kufr = denial of the truth in this case truth = Quran

So denying ANYTHING from the Quran = Kufr and 1 who does kufr = Kaafir

Now if these girls DENY that Homosexuality is not a sin = deny Quran therefore they have done kufr and therefore CAN be termed Kaafir

However if they are ignorant or just wish to live a sinful life knowingly...Then they are still Muslims...

Besides in order to be considered Non Muslim...You have to go against the Shahadah (No God but ALLAH and Prophet his msgr)...denying of GOD and/ or Prophet...
@Awesome @WebMaster @Aeronaut @Oscar @Loki please close this thread it is getting derailed and will soon be off topic...

From Science to Islam it has been bouncing about without conclusion!

why are you calling me Mr troll?
what do you mean 'we are saying', are you and @Raja.Pakistani belong to a group which has exactly same view on everything?

Go and read the posts on this thread to realize 'no one saying' is not entirely true. Are you accusing me of making it up?

There seems to be divergence of opinion on this thread as to whether they committed sin or they are non-muslim because they violated some basic tenets of islam.

No matter how authoritative you might think, your view will remain exactly that, your own view. I reserve the right to consult other views and debate regarding that. Your point on that thread was subsequently questioned by others, but thread got closed, if I remember correctly.

So according to you, homosexuals are still muslim if they are either
1. ignorant
2. know very well but willing to live sinful life

In which condition will they be termed as kafir then. To me, you covered all cases in these two mutually exclusive conditions.

Ok, the last bit is one I am after. 'Shahadah'. I will repeat the question, is it specifically mentioned that this is the parameter to judge to consider somebody muslim or non muslim, if so, verse please.
Otherwise, its just another sin that some experts (human beings) decided as primary criteria among other sins.

Its important to understand how their case is different from ahmedis, why one group is still considered muslim(according to some) and other is not when both seem to deny quranic dos and donts either knowingly or out of ignorance.

That is why I brought ahmedi to this thread, its not offtopic.

 

[Awesome]

So basically islam says nothing about their status as muslim.
They commit sin, that bit is clear.
The argument about ahmedis not being muslim is they violate the basic tenet of islam. I am trying to ascertain how basic is the rule that homosexuals violate. Is it basic enough to declare them non-muslim?

As far as my understanding goes. No one can be declared Muslim or non Muslim. That power is only wielded by Allah (and Government of Pakistan).

One can however opine all they want.