TURNING POINT IN THE HISTORY OF INDIAN SUBCONTINENT

[Joe Shearer]

sigh ... I am not looking for certificates from you. Why should it not be considered a weakness that they were conquered in the first place.

You should be, considering your state of disrepair in matters historical.

It need not be considered a weakness - there is no norm, as far as I know,in such matters - because it was 'they', not 'that'. They were a series of city states and small principalities which were no match for the ruthless fighting machine that had evolved from Greek hoplite ranks, to Theban phalanx, to Macedonian phalanx. I hope that having come to a defence forum to bash Muslims and Pakistanis, at least some faint smears of military history have rubbed off on you and you can recognise these terms as military formations. I hope that you will also realise that phalanxes did not scale mountains or assault fortifications, it was the discipline of the Macedonians and the courage of their king and commander-in-chief that won the day. And lastly, I hope you realise how stupid you sound wondering why some hill-peasants could not stand against the leading military genius of the age.

 

[Rig Vedic]

The only thing the genetic studies prove is that any foreign influence was not a massive physical invasion. The issue here is the Aryan cultural invasion; there is no reason why such an invasion need be accompanied by a large physical conquest. In the old days before democracy, all you had to do was to gain control of the ruling/spiritual strata and the masses would follow.

The Vedic and other influences came from areas which were foreign to the subcontinent masses at the time. Just because later empires encompassed them, centuries afterwards, somehow makes the original influence retroactively "indigenous"? By that logic, if India were to invade and conquer Saudi Arabia, would it then make Islam "indigenous" to India?

Whether you take Saraswati archeology, the Vedic literature, or genetic studies (diversity of markers) - they all point to a direction that invalidates your theory. (BTW, in genetic studies, diversity does strongly suggest the direction of population movements.)

 

[Joe Shearer]

dada akhane aryan bolte greek r persian invader der kotha bola hochche tumi kivabe deny korte paro j ara india te invade koreni

ami ancient time ar kotha bolchi akhane prochur invasion hoyechilo r punjab sobcheye beshi suffer koreche

punjabi ra average indian der theke fair tall howar main karon oder modhdhe invader der blood ache

Arya ekti bhasha sangraha ba goshthi'r nam. Arya bole'o kono jat chhilo na. Na Greek na Persian jat ke Arya bola jae. Prothom kotha era akromon korechhilo, kintu era Arya to chhilo na, Arya bhasha sommondhe byabohar kora hoe, jat sommondhe noe.

Ami'o prachin kaler'i kotha bolchhi, ebong jara uttar paschim simanto diye akromon korechhilen, tara onekei - sobai non, onekei - Punjab-er modhye diye egiye chhilen. Onye-ra adhunik Baluchistan diye dhukechhilen, ebong jara uttar diye, othoba uttar purba simanto diye akromon koren, tara Punjab-er dhare kachhe jaan ni.

Punjabi-der phhorsha ebong lombaa howar karon shune haashi pelo. Greek-e-der gor uchhota koto chhilo shuni?

Ektu para shona'r por ei shob bishoye ghatano uchit hoto.

 

[Sashan]

You actually answered the OP's question. Puranic Hinduism pretty much castrated this country. Everything was either maya or Karma, what incentive was there for people to strive? The golden age of Hinduism that is often mentioned is more accurately the golden age of Buddhism though the rulers, the Guptas happened to be Hindu. As Buddhism declined & puranic Hinduism took hold, India slipped into a morass.By the end of the Gupta period, caste was firmly entrenched & that pretty much doomed "India". The Kshatriyas were pretty useless in fighting & essentially needed to count on the Shudras to provide the numbers. What incentive was there for the Shudras to fight against one bunch of oppressors when the other bunch, already existing, were doing the same oppression for years? Stupid clan rules, rigidly followed, were taken to such extremes that artisans were not even allowed to change their tools across generations disincentivising any innovation. When "thinking" was made the monopoly of the few, it was the death blow whereby the intelligence of the large majority of people was rendered unusable guaranteeing a rapid civilisational decline. Regardless of individual brilliance or philosophical genius of a few, Hindu India was pretty much doomed by puranic Hinduism. The Bhakthi movement which revived Hinduism for some time was a far cry from the extraordinary metaphysical postulations of the Upanishads, a dumbing down if you will. Islamic invasions only hastened that decline by wiping out the "thinkers" in the cities. Hinduism remained in a slump, dying & decaying slowly till ironically the advent of the British helped breathe new energy into it..

The best answer to the question posted here in this thread.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Even in that case you would not have diversity of "Aryan" markers in India being higher than in the alleged homelands. Besides the mountain of other evidence.

'A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.' The genetic analysis of the population shows clearly that the dominant stratum on whom everything else was built was Austro-Asiatic. Secondly, you outdo yourself; having appalled me earlier with your claptrap, you now have exceeded your personal best by referring to 'Aryan' markers in India. Amazing. So you have solved a problem that defeated Hitler and the European racists and have rediscovered the Aryan race.

Not for nothing do the revisionists say that Indians are superior in all respects compared to Europeans. It must be so, when an Indian racist is so much more accomplished in his racism than the whole pack of European racists.

Well done. Savarkar would have been proud of you.

Making the enemy run with fear and complete annihilation also gives the winning army to capture the running generals.

Are you determined to prove that you are stupid? Is this a military rule? Is this your proof that Muhammad Ghori was captured by Prithviraj?

 

[Rig Vedic]

You should be, considering your state of disrepair in matters historical.

It need not be considered a weakness - there is no norm, as far as I know,in such matters - because it was 'they', not 'that'. They were a series of city states and small principalities which were no match for the ruthless fighting machine that had evolved from Greek hoplite ranks, to Theban phalanx, to Macedonian phalanx. I hope that having come to a defence forum to bash Muslims and Pakistanis, at least some faint smears of military history have rubbed off on you and you can recognise these terms as military formations. I hope that you will also realise that phalanxes did not scale mountains or assault fortifications, it was the discipline of the Macedonians and the courage of their king and commander-in-chief that won the day. And lastly, I hope you realise how stupid you sound wondering why some hill-peasants could not stand against the leading military genius of the age.

Vacuous personal remarks ignored. We're talking evolved kingdoms with centuries or perhaps millenia of history, mentioned in the Mahabharata and Ramayana, which were part of a larger civilization with a strong sense of self-identity, very distinct from marauding Mlechhas.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Why is it difficult for Hindus to accept that the ancient religion evolved from an admixture of two distinct racial types?

What is the primary motivational thrust for the Out of India theory?

I think the answer is Islam.

I disagree. I think it is the Brahminical counter-attack, stupidly abetted by non-Brahmins who don't realise that they are being made pawns in this game. It is their riposte against the British claim of Aryan-speaking war-lords having led the war-bands into India; they want to show that an evolved, mature civilisation was developed in India by a master-race within the master-race, and went out to populate the whole world. Except, of course, scum like the Middle Eastern rabble, and the funny-looking types from Oriental cultures. Note their pure, vindictive stance towards these two, even today; their's is a finely honed xenophobia-based bigotry, which cannot be excelled.

Aryans were not Hindu. The Aryans encircled Iran in Center and the diameter was from France to North East India. North East India only. Searched in Wikipedia and related everything. You used to be fked by Iranians.

Only a fking idiot would confuse east with west.

 

[vsdoc]

Joe aap to aaj bahut labels yahan wahan fenk rahe ho bade bhai ......

Have you gone mulla on us along with Developer?

I liked the old Joe better .....

 

[Rig Vedic]

having appalled me earlier with your claptrap, you now have exceeded your personal best by referring to 'Aryan' markers in India. Amazing. So you have solved a problem that defeated Hitler and the European racists and have rediscovered the Aryan race.

(sigh) ... try a search for academic papers talking about "proto-Indo-European" haplogroups. You may even find data about distributions in Adivasi groups, including South Indian Adivasi groups.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Your language does your flag no favors.

But even in ***** one sometimes finds something of use.

Is the Out of India revisionism motivated less by Islam and more to do with Hinduism probably being next in line to, somehow progenitored by the Persian Aryan race?

The race to be THE oldest faith perhaps?

As an extrapolate of the oldest people?

Just loose hypotheses currently ......

You are getting old and sloppy, doc. Just double-check your prescriptions from this point on. You haven't noticed that he doesn't know north-east from north-west.

 

[Rig Vedic]

I think it is the Brahminical counter-attack

Great. The "Brahminical empire" strikes back.

 

[Joe Shearer]

well they were if not then why was rig ved written in sub continent why not the as they say central asia and horses which was aryans gift to subcontinent as many western so called intelectuals believe we had horses worshipped and used as domestik help as much as 1500 years before so called "Aryan inveders" arrived from central asia and there are many clues and artifacts found in IVC ruins that Shiv lingams and hroses were part of daily life in IVC google it ...aryan invasion bogey was created by western masters as there subjects of the sub continent alawys think of britishers as the better race and more intelectual and developed what they were already

There were no horse remains in the original strata of the IVC. There are some disputed remains at much higher layers in one or two sites. There was not a single Shiv lingam in any site. Not one.

The British were not the better race and more intellectual and developed than us. They just concealed their cretins and did not allow them to post random rubbish in front of everybody else. We could learn from them.

relax its not about religion. bengalis r also an indo aryan race. doesnt that means our ancestors been ****** 2

those were ancient times people used 2 b barbaric those days

O Lor'.

Vsdoc, cretins are your department, I believe. Can you explain to this goon the difference between race and language? Before he bursts with racial pride?

 

[vsdoc]

O Lor'.

Vsdoc, cretins are your department, I believe. Can you explain to this goon the difference between race and language? Before he bursts with racial pride?

Ya I did not get this one meself.

But since he claims to be Persian, I let it slide at the time.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Other nations used to fk you and will keep fk you. Now it is Chinese turn. I never talk without source. I got source and I gave you idiots. My flag represents we are the winner of a force of Pak-US,whom you failed to defeat 7 times. Thank you.

Once a cretin, always a cretin. And we don't need a source to know that.

How were you a winner over a force of Pak-US? What was the US doing? Did it fire a single shot against you? Did it sink a single one of your ships? Fly a plane over your territories? Was there any other navy around between the Mukti-joddhas and the 7th Fleet, or didn't they teach you this in class IV? Perhaps when you graduate to class V? And what is this 7 times remark? Do you have an explanation, or a source, or do you just happen to like the number 7?

 

[Don Jaguar]

Ya I did not get this one meself.

But since he claims to be Persian, I let it slide at the time.

Dude what is the starting salary of a doctor in india?