TURNING POINT IN THE HISTORY OF INDIAN SUBCONTINENT

[Hellraiser007]

You should know by now, and I have told you a couple of times, that I only respond to factual posts with substance, not vacuous blabbering.

Rusty thrashed you with facts and, when he challenged you to back your vacuous claims with specifics, you started throwing personal attacks against him, Muslims and Pakistanis in general.

There is no Aryan Invasion and there is no evidence and The culture is indigenous to this land. There are some people who migrated and integrated into Indian society.

 

[Developereo]

P.S. Grammar mulla, I'll give you wedgie. Control.

Still smarting after all these years, eh?

You know, Aeronaut hardly posts any more, AgnosticMuslim isn't here any more, and I don't find you worth my time. So all of us who used to toy with you back then have moved on. In retrospect, we shouldn't have tortured you so much, but a rabid, foam-at-the-mouth Islamophobe like you deserves no better. Especially one who advocates violence against (Indian) Muslims.

It's time to let go of your anger and move on...

 

[vsdoc]

Still smarting after all these years, eh?

You know, Aeronaut hardly posts any more, AgnosticMuslim isn't here any more, and I don't find you worth my time. So all of us who used to toy with you back then have moved on. In retrospect, we shouldn't have tortured you so much, but a rabid, foam-at-the-mouth Islamophobe like you deserves no better.

It's time to let go of your anger and move on...

Tch tch.

Name calling again.

Your Parsi headmistress must be SO gutted.

You can try and give the natives some culture, but sometime .....

 

[Leader]

the day Hindus were given the name Hindus by Muslims !

 

[Developereo]

Your Parsi headmistress must be SO gutted.

She was a civilized, educated, liberal woman and a lady in every respect.

Don't ever compare yourself to her, just because you share the same religion.

 

[vsdoc]

She was a civilized, educated, liberal woman and a lady in every respect.

Don't ever compare yourself to her, just because you share the same religion.

Tell me the truth ..... you're shitting yourself wondering how I knew you had a headmistress right?

Gujju speaking and cojones .....

 

[DarkPrince]

indians in PDF r so anti muslim

mai PDF pe ane se pehle indians ko like karta tha

yaha inke post dekh k dil jal jata hai

 

[Developereo]

Tell me the truth ..... you're shitting yourself wondering how I knew you had a headmistress right?

I wrote in one thread that I went to BVS Parsi High School in Karachi and I had BVS in my avatar for a while. There's no mystery.

 

[vsdoc]

I wrote in one thread that I went to BVS Parsi High School in Karachi. There's no mystery.

LOL relax bro.

Btw, your afterthought about me advocating violence against Indian muslims.

You need to take off your jaali waali topi for a bit bro.

We are Indian. That's not how we roll.

 

[Bang Galore]

Are you a historian?

Not even close, JS will have a heart attack if he hears this..... however reading is not an ability limited to Historians, analysing evidence may be, therefore you rarely see me offering up any other "definitive" theory. I prefer to stay within my signature.......

 

[vsdoc]

Not even close, JS will have a heart attack if he hears this..... however reading is not an ability limited to Historians, analysing evidence may be, therefore you rarely see me offering up any other "definitive" theory. I prefer to stay within my signature.......

Yup, but you know far more than any "normal" non-historian would know bro.

Anyways, I enjoy your posts and the info therein.

Toxic Pus is another old favorite. (non-mulla Grammar Nazi )

 

[INDIC]

the day Hindus were given the name Hindus by Muslims !

Who told you this wrong history. The name Hind and Hindu were given by Zoroastrians when Achaemenids of Iran conquered parts of North-West India(Present Pakistan) during 6th century BC, 1300 years before Muhammad bin Qasim landed in Sindh. But during those time Hindu meant Indians, not a religion.

 

[Bang Galore]

The only thing the genetic studies prove is that any foreign influence was not a massive physical invasion.

Yup, that's how you dismantle an established theory. Keep poking holes till there are only holes.... (not that i care really, not believing in the necessity of a "perfect" history)

The issue here is the Aryan cultural invasion; there is no reason why such an invasion need be accompanied by a large physical conquest.

True but as I have pointed out in a different post, evidence for a cultural influx overwhelming an earlier civilisation is pretty much non existent, nor is there any memory of that civilisational onslaught in cultures (i.e. Dravidian speaking) that supposedly survived it.

In the old days before democracy, all you had to do was to gain control of the ruling/spiritual strata and the masses would follow.

Evidence of such change would remain though...usually...

The Vedic and other influences came from areas which were foreign to the subcontinent masses at the time.

Absolutely no evidence of that in the Rg veda itself. People who remember & passed on through memorisation the Rg veda for over a 1000 years simply have no recollection of an earlier past & a supposed great migration.

Just because later empires encompassed them, centuries afterwards, somehow makes the original influence retroactively "indigenous"?

No evidence of foreign influence on the Rg veda.

By that logic, if India were to invade and conquer Saudi Arabia, would it then make Islam "indigenous" to India?

What's the point here? Are you suggesting that the Rg vedic culture was indigenous & the Aryans simply invaded & joined in the party? Doesn't make much sense, this analogy.

 

[Dushmann]

You actually answered the OP's question. Puranic Hinduism pretty much castrated this country. Everything was either maya or Karma, what incentive was there for people to strive? The golden age of Hinduism that is often mentioned is more accurately the golden age of Buddhism though the rulers, the Guptas happened to be Hindu. As Buddhism declined & puranic Hinduism took hold, India slipped into a morass.By the end of the Gupta period, caste was firmly entrenched & that pretty much doomed "India". The Kshatriyas were pretty useless in fighting & essentially needed to count on the Shudras to provide the numbers. What incentive was there for the Shudras to fight against one bunch of oppressors when the other bunch, already existing, were doing the same oppression for years? Stupid clan rules, rigidly followed, were taken to such extremes that artisans were not even allowed to change their tools across generations disincentivising any innovation. When "thinking" was made the monopoly of the few, it was the death blow whereby the intelligence of the large majority of people was rendered unusable guaranteeing a rapid civilisational decline. Regardless of individual brilliance or philosophical genius of a few, Hindu India was pretty much doomed by puranic Hinduism. The Bhakthi movement which revived Hinduism for some time was a far cry from the extraordinary metaphysical postulations of the Upanishads, a dumbing down if you will. Islamic invasions only hastened that decline by wiping out the "thinkers" in the cities. Hinduism remained in a slump, dying & decaying slowly till ironically the advent of the British helped breathe new energy into it..

This should be taught in school as a separate chapter in history textbook.
.
caste system and Brahminism is also responsible for persistence of Islam in india, and later British rule.

 

[Developereo]

True but as I have pointed out in a different post, evidence for a cultural influx overwhelming an earlier civilisation is pretty much non existent, nor is there any memory of that civilisational onslaught in cultures (i.e. Dravidian speaking) that supposedly survived it.

I am not trying to defend the AIT in terms of a physical invasion. What I am saying is that elements of "Indian" culture were introduced by "foreigners", and these elements are now considered indigenous because those "foreign lands" were only subsequently merged into a common empire.

Also, we are not talking about wholesale replacement of an earlier culture, but additions to it so, to use your phrase, the foreign culture was "assimilated". Vedic influences, which germinated in the IVC region, radiated out into the rest of India.

What's the point here? Are you suggesting that the Rg vedic culture was indigenous & the Aryans simply invaded & joined in the party? Doesn't make much sense, this analogy.

The point is that, to a Bihari or Bengali or Keralite, there was nothing "indigenous" about an IVC cultural artifact. Even today, South Indians consider Sanskrit and the Vedas to be a North Indian cultural feature, no? The only reason it is called indigenous is because a single political entity, the Maurya Empire, united those lands centuries later.

Hence the analogy that, if a Maurya Empire (mark 2) were to encompass Saudi Arabia, even to dissolve later, then Islam would magically become an "indigenous" cultural artifact.