Turkish Politics & Internal Affairs

[Solomon2]

...Meanwhile read this:
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/wh...rkey.aspx?pageID=449&nID=102070&NewsCatID=409

Already did. I see no problem both agreeing with its author and holding to my own analysis.

 

[xenon54 out]

Darbeci diye haksiz yere hayatlarindan yillar calinanlar bakin asil darbe gecesi ne yapmislar.

Darbe gecesi kimsenin bilmediği çatışma

Balyoz Davası'ndan 3'er yıl hapis yatan 3 subay, darbe girişimini gece evde öğrendi. Beylik tabancalarını alıp sivil kıyafetle Jandarma Genel Komutanlığı'na koştular ve darbecilerle sabaha kadar çatıştılar.


15 Temmuz Darbe Girişimi gecesi Jandarma Genel Komutanlığı'nı karargah olarak kullanmayı hedefleyen darbeci askerler, ilk olarak Jandarma Genel Komutanı Orgeneral Galip Mendi'yi rehin aldı. Ardından komutanlığı ele geçirmek için harekete geçmişlerdi. Komutanlıkta çok şiddetli çatışmalar yaşandı ve darbeciler helikopter ve savaş uçaklarından destek isteyerek komutanlığı bombalattı.

BALYOZ'DAN CEZA ALMIŞLARDI

Posta'nın haberine göre, darbe girişimini duyan Jandarma Genel Komutanlığı Personel Daire Başkanı Kurmay Albay Aziz Yılmaz, Jandarma Plan Prensip Başkanı Tuğgeneral Ahmet Hacıoğlu ile Kurmay Albay Ali Demir'i aradı. Bu üç askerin ortak özelliği, Balyoz Davası'nda 16 yıl hapis ceza almaları ve 3'er yıl hapis yatmalarıydı.

18 HAİN İÇERİ GİRMİŞTİ

Balyoz mağduru komutanlar aynı askeri lojmanda oturuyorlardı. Bu üç askere Albay Nurettin Alkan ile Albay Güven Şağban da katıldı. Yanlarında sadece beylik tabancaları vardı. Sivil kıyafetlerle bir otomobile binip Jandarma Genel Komutanlığı'na gittiler. Darbeci Kurmay Yarbay Süleyman Karaca karagahı ele geçirmek için 18 darbeci askerle komutanlığın içindeydi.

DESTEK GELENE KADAR ATEŞ

Bu 5 subay çatışarak içeri girdiler. Albay Nurettin Alkan kolundan yaralandı. Çatışma sabaha kadar sürdü. Bu 5 subay destek gelene kadar Jandarma Genel Komutanlığı'nın darbecilerin eline geçmesini önledi. Özel Kuvvetler de sabah 07.00'de operasyon düzenleyip darbecileri etkisiz hale getirdi.

 

[-SINAN-]

Yesterday Ahmet Hakan made an excellent program with 6 former army personnel whom jailed at the time from phony cases like Balyoz, Poyrazköy, etc...

 

[xenon54 out]

Yesterday Ahmet Hakan made an excellent program with 6 former army personnel whom jailed at the time from phony cases like Balyoz, Poyrazköy, etc...

Can you give a short summary, i really dont feel like listening a 4h discussion.

 

[-SINAN-]

Can you give a short summary, i really dont feel like listening a 4h discussion.

There is no summary, they talked about lots of different things.... I watched it from tv when it was airing.

You might wanna watch it 20-30 minutes per day....

Okay, i wrote this on our telegram group but i will post it also here so everybody can read.

The story of "1 Dollar"

On many Gülenists One dollar banknotes have been found, and on some high level Gülenists, 1 dollar coins have been found. All banknotes had serials numbers starting with "F", "T", "H"
- F found on high level Gülenists
- T found on mid level Gülenists
- H found on low level Gülenists
- 1 dollar coins found on top level Gülenists.

You know we have a tradition, like when entering university exams, our elders would pray and blow on rice...then they put in your pocket, to bring good luck.
It's being said that Gülen also prayed and blowed on these banknotes and coins.


Ahmet Hakan, brought 6 ex-soldiers whom convicted by Gülenists at the past.
One of the Admiral told a story.


He said "When i was in US, for traning, in the evening, we went to a bar with my American colleagues. One of them throw, a one dollar coin in front of me and said that i have to buy them drink"
Our Admiral says why ?
Marine explains like this;
If some one don't have a one dollar coin, he has to buy the drinks.
Our Admiral asks the importance of one dollar coin.
Marine explains.

One dollar coin given to marines, there are 3 reasons.
1-) It shows our loyalty to marine corps.
2-) It shows that our loyalty to USA and to it's government.
3-) It means that we have accomplished important mission or missions for the USA.

Also, they searched the house of the one of the pilot (Highest Ranked Couping General's son in law) and they found 69, 1 Dollar banknotes...when asked, he replied "ıt's the change left from my visit to the USA, it's not like i'm distributing them to anyone".
69, 1 Dollar banknotes.



And also, there was a very funny moment. There was a ex-Military soldier from Gata. You know GATA is hospital and he worked there as a Scientist. The guy is like you know, he is not "Çakal", when you look at him that you will say that he is will be the last person that will hand in funny business.

Gülenists accused him of spying...and providing 3 three travesties for his contacts.

From laughing tears kept coming for 10 minutes.

 

[CrimsonFury]

There is no summary, they talked about lots of different things.... I watched it from tv when it was airing.

You might wanna watch it 20-30 minutes per day....

Okay, i wrote this on our telegram group but i will post it also here so everybody can read.

The story of "1 Dollar"

On many Gülenists One dollar banknotes have been found, and on some high level Gülenists, 1 dollar coins have been found. All banknotes had serials numbers starting with "F", "T", "H"
- F found on high level Gülenists
- T found on mid level Gülenists
- H found on low level Gülenists
- 1 dollar coins found on top level Gülenists.

You know we have a tradition, like when entering university exams, our elders would pray and blow on rice...then they put in your pocket, to bring good luck.
It's being said that Gülen also prayed and blowed on these banknotes and coins.


Ahmet Hakan, brought 6 ex-soldiers whom convicted by Gülenists at the past.
One of the Admiral told a story.


He said "When i was in US, for traning, in the evening, we went to a bar with my American colleagues. One of them throw, a one dollar coin in front of me and said that i have to buy them drink"
Our Admiral says why ?
Marine explains like this;
If some one don't have a one dollar coin, he has to buy the drinks.
Our Admiral asks the importance of one dollar coin.
Marine explains.

One dollar coin given to marines, there are 3 reasons.
1-) It shows our loyalty to marine corps.
2-) It shows that our loyalty to USA and to it's government.
3-) It means that we have accomplished important mission or missions for the USA.

Also, they searched the house of the one of the pilot (Highest Ranked Couping General's son in law) and they found 69, 1 Dollar banknotes...when asked, he replied "ıt's the change left from my visit to the USA, it's not like i'm distributing them to anyone".
69, 1 Dollar banknotes.



And also, there was a very funny moment. There was a ex-Military soldier from Gata. You know GATA is hospital and he worked there as a Scientist. The guy is like you know, he is not "Çakal", when you look at him that you will say that he is will be the last person that will hand in funny business.

Gülenists accused him of spying...and providing 3 three travesties for his contacts.

From laughing tears kept coming for 10 minutes.

69 tane 1 dolar parası mı? Bu adam polise ne dedi acaba ifade de??:''biriktirecem dayı o yüzden getirdim, hani darbe olacagını tahmin ettim(!!) dedim ki dolar artacak o yüzden saklıyordum...'' beyinlerini si.... salakları.

Neyse YAŞ olsun da görecegiz nereye kadar uzuyorlar

 

[xenon54 out]

The story of "1 Dollar"

On many Gülenists One dollar banknotes have been found, and on some high level Gülenists, 1 dollar coins have been found. All banknotes had serials numbers starting with "F", "T", "H"
- F found on high level Gülenists
- T found on mid level Gülenists
- H found on low level Gülenists
- 1 dollar coins found on top level Gülenists.

You know we have a tradition, like when entering university exams, our elders would pray and blow on rice...then they put in your pocket, to bring good luck.
It's being said that Gülen also prayed and blowed on these banknotes and coins.

Ahmet Hakan, brought 6 ex-soldiers whom convicted by Gülenists at the past.
One of the Admiral told a story.


He said "When i was in US, for traning, in the evening, we went to a bar with my American colleagues. One of them throw, a one dollar coin in front of me and said that i have to buy them drink"
Our Admiral says why ?
Marine explains like this;
If some one don't have a one dollar coin, he has to buy the drinks.
Our Admiral asks the importance of one dollar coin.
Marine explains.

One dollar coin given to marines, there are 3 reasons.
1-) It shows our loyalty to marine corps.
2-) It shows that our loyalty to USA and to it's government.
3-) It means that we have accomplished important mission or missions for the USA.

Hmm sounds a little bit over the top but lets see.

And i also, there was a very funny moment. There was a ex-Military soldier from Gata. You know GATA is hospital and he worked there as a Scientist. The guy is like you know, he is not "Çakal", when you look at him that you will say that he is will be the last person that will hand in funny business.

Gülenists accused him of spying...and providing 3 three travesties for his contacts.

From laughing tears kept coming for 10 minutes.

Whut? what do you mean by providing 3 trannies?

 

[-SINAN-]

69 tane 1 dolar parası mı? Bu adam polise ne dedi acaba ifade de??:''biriktirecem dayı o yüzden getirdim, hani darbe olacagını tahmin ettim(!!) dedim ki dolar artacak o yüzden saklıyordum...'' beyinlerini si.... salakları.

Neyse YAŞ olsun da görecegiz nereye kadar uzuyorlar

He says it's the change left from his trips to US.....and he kept them as souvenir.

69, 1 $.......come on......It's obvious that he was distributing those to Gülen followers..

Also, all 6 had no doubts that US is behind Gülenists.....if they are aware there is no way that government isn't aware.... I'm curious that how will government will position itself against US.

Also, i found it interesting that Erdoğan will make it's first formal visit after the coup to Russia. And if you recall after all major military incidents, our officials would go to Brussels and debrief NATO over the incident (Syria downing our Jet, Downing of the Russian Jet, etc....) But this time, i mean this is the most serious military matter after the Invasion of Cyprus....no debrief.

Hmm sounds a little bit over the top but lets see.

Well, i hate conspiracy theories....i think the most simple explanation is the true explanation.

Now, you can interpret this story in any way that you want....but it's true that 1 Dollar banknotes and 1 Dollar coins found on Gülenists,(Soldiers, Judges, Police, Journalists, etc...)

Whut? what do you mean by providing 3 trannies?

Think of it like bribing.

 

[xenon54 out]

Now, you can interpret this story in any way that you want....but it's true that 1 Dollar banknotes and 1 Dollar coins found on Gülenists,(Soldiers, Judges, Police, Journalists, etc...)

Yeah i read about the dollar notes found but not on enough people so we can say theres a system behind it, lets see what comes out.

Think of it like bribing.

Morons should have sent real women, if they sent me 3 trannies i would expose all their network the next day just out of grudge.

 

[CrimsonFury]

He says it's the change left from his trips to US.....and he kept them as souvenir.

69, 1 $.......come on......It's obvious that he was distributing those to Gülen followers..

Also, all 6 had no doubts that US is behind Gülenists.....if they are aware there is no way that government isn't aware.... I'm curious that how will government will position itself against US.

Also, i found it interesting that Erdoğan will make it's first formal visit after the coup to Russia. And if you recall after all major military incidents, our officials would go to Brussels and debrief NATO over the incident (Syria downing our Jet, Downing of the Russian Jet, etc....) But this time, i mean this is the most serious military matter after the Invasion of Cyprus....no debrief.


Well, i hate conspiracy theories....i think the most simple explanation is the true explanation.

Now, you can interpret this story in any way that you want....but it's true that 1 Dollar banknotes and 1 Dollar coins found on Gülenists,(Soldiers, Judges, Police, Journalists, etc...)



Think of it like bribing.

I believe Ankara finds Moscow to be a much more sincere and forthcoming partner...I can't blame them.

**** Brussels.

 

[Solomon2]

Reviewing the U.S.-Turkey extradition treaty. Article 7, paragraph 1(c) is the sticking point:

(1) A request relating to a person being prosecuted or who is charged with an offense, and who has yet to be convicted, shall be accompanied by the following:

(a) A warrant of arrest issued by a judge or other competent judicial officer;
(b) A statement of the facts of the case;
(c) Such evidence as, according to the laws of the Requested Party, would justify arrest and committal for trial of the person sought if the offense had been committed in the territory of the Requested Party;
(d) Evidence proving that the person sought is the person to whom the warrant of arrest refers, including information, if available, on nationality; and
(e) The text of the applicable laws of the Requesting Party, including the law defining the offense, the law prescribing the punishment for the offense, and the law relating to the limitation of legal proceedings or the enforcement of the penalty for the offense.​

Until Turkey provides the necessary information extradition cannot proceed, even if the U.S. government wants to kick Gulen out. Under Article 3, paragraph 1(a), an attempt against the Head of Government is explicitly not considered an excusable "offense of a political character". That includes conspiracy.

However, to prove conspiracy in the U.S. you need to proof of an agreement between the parties to commit a crime. One person claiming he conspired with somebody else does not itself constitute proof under U.S. law. I think there has to be evidence of two-way communication: a series of letters, wiretap records, etc. As far as I know, Turkey hasn't yet provided the U.S. with any of these.

 

[CrimsonFury]

Reviewing the U.S.-Turkey extradition treaty. Article 7, paragraph 1(c) is the sticking point:

(1) A request relating to a person being prosecuted or who is charged with an offense, and who has yet to be convicted, shall be accompanied by the following:

(a) A warrant of arrest issued by a judge or other competent judicial officer;
(b) A statement of the facts of the case;
(c) Such evidence as, according to the laws of the Requested Party, would justify arrest and committal for trial of the person sought if the offense had been committed in the territory of the Requested Party;
(d) Evidence proving that the person sought is the person to whom the warrant of arrest refers, including information, if available, on nationality; and
(e) The text of the applicable laws of the Requesting Party, including the law defining the offense, the law prescribing the punishment for the offense, and the law relating to the limitation of legal proceedings or the enforcement of the penalty for the offense.​

Until Turkey provides the necessary information extradition cannot proceed, even if the U.S. government wants to kick Gulen out. Under Article 3, paragraph 1(a), an attempt against the Head of Government is explicitly not considered an excusable "offense of a political character". That includes conspiracy.

However, to prove conspiracy in the U.S. you need to proof of an agreement between the parties to commit a crime. One person claiming he conspired with somebody else does not itself constitute proof under U.S. law. There has to be evidence of two-way communication: a series of letters, wiretap records, etc. As far as I know, Turkey hasn't yet provided the U.S. with any of these.

Ah excellent. I bet it's illegal in the US to try and violently overthrow a democratically elected government using a shady religious sect that has infiltrated the organs of the state and military over the past 40 years. This means we gonna get the Fetomon!

 

[Solomon2]

Turkish Premier Demands U.S. Help With Gulen
Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said in an interview that evidence is ‘crystal clear’ against the U.S.-based imam, who has denied any role in the failed coup.

Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim tells The Wall Street Journal that the case against Fethullah Gulen, whom the Turkish government says orchestrated the recent failed military coup, is “crystal clear.” Photo: AP

By MARGARET COKER
Updated July 26, 2016 6:43 p.m. ET

ANKARA, Turkey—The Turkish prime minister expressed frustration on Tuesday at what he called a heartbreaking lack of support from the Obama administration in his nation’s quest to bring the perpetrators of this month’s failed coup to justice.

Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said in an interview that the attempt to overthrow his government has shaken Turkish society much like the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks affected America. He said that Turkish national security demanded that Washington turn over Fethullah Gulen, the U.S.-based Turkish imam accused by the government of masterminding the coup attempt earlier this month which led to the deaths of 265 people.

Mr. Gulen, a moderate religious leader who counts millions of supporters in Turkey and abroad, has denied any role in the military uprising and says he is opposed to violence.

In response to the coup, Turkish security agencies have detained about 15,000 people they believe to be followers of Mr. Gulen, including one-third of the nation’s highest-ranking military officers, according to a Turkish official. Tens of thousands of civil servants, from teachers to judges to financial regulators, have also been suspended from their jobs.

“The evidence is crystal clear. We know the terrorist cult responsible for vicious attacks against us and the Turkish people,” Mr. Yildirim said. “We are heartbroken at the way that the U.S. has treated this matter. We simply cannot understand why the U.S. just can’t hand over this individual.”

In the wake of the coup attempt, President Barack Obama has promised all support necessary in Turkey’s investigations, and U.S. officials have asked Turkish officials to deliver all evidence they had on the matter. Turkey has provided some information to the U.S. in the hopes of getting Mr. Gulen extradited, but it has not submitted a formal extradition request, according to U.S. officials.

The information Turkey has provided doesn’t yet support the Turkish government’s conclusion or meet the legal threshold that would allow for a successful extradition proceeding, according to a person familiar with the matter.

In order to have Mr. Gulen extradited, Turkey would have to present U.S. authorities with a list of the criminal charges against him, proof that similar charges exist under U.S. law, and a recitation of the facts in the case, among other things, according to legal experts. Even then, the request would have to be approved by a federal judge and the State Department.

“The extradition process is a formal process, it’s a legal process, it’s a technical process,” said Elizabeth Trudeau, a spokeswoman for the State Department. “It’s governed by the extradition treaty that both our governments signed. So we’re going to let that play out.”

Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim sits in his official residence in Ankara on Sunday. PHOTO: DANIELLE VILLASANA/BLOOMBERG NEWS

The U.S. and Turkey have had a formal extradition treaty in effect since 1981.

The coup has exposed longstanding weaknesses in the U.S.-Turkish strategic alliance, which is based on mutual defense cooperation as North Atlantic Treaty Organization members and as partners in the fight against terrorism. It also underscores tensions over such issues as civil liberties and democracy.

Turkey has been a partner in the international coalition against Islamic State, and a partner in stabilizing Iraq and Afghanistan. The U.S. has supported Turkey’s own national security priorities of battling against the armed insurgency know as the Kurdistan People’s Party, which Washington has joined with Ankara in branding a terror group.

The two nations aren't in sync in regards to the Gulen organization, which Turkey elevated to a national security threat equal to Islamic State and the PKK last summer. In May, Turkey declared the Gulen movement a terrorist organization.

The Obama administration hasn't followed suit, according to the person familiar with the matter, in part because of a view in Washington that the campaign against Mr. Gulen was part of a campaign of repression and political retribution against rivals of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his ruling Justice and Development Party, or AKP.

In the interview at his official residence in the Turkish capital, Mr. Yildirim said Turkey’s allies should be assured of his government’s commitment to investigations within legal and constitutional parameters. He denied allegations by human rights groups that detainees were being mistreated.

Mr. Yildirim appeared uninterested in legal complexities. He said that the strength of the U.S.-Turkish strategic alliance should outweigh procedural matters. He also voiced what has become a consensus view among Turkey’s leadership that testimony gleaned by Turkish interrogators from alleged coup plotters should be considered absolute truth.

“America keeps asking us for documents and documents. What documents do you need, when 265 people have been killed, bombed from jets and run over by tanks?” he asked. “The evidence is clear. We have testimony by suspected members of the coup that they took orders from this person [Mr. Gulen].”

Before the coup, Turkey had sought U.S. legal intervention in regards to Mr. Gulen, amid a long-running political struggle between his supporters and the AKP, which Mr. Yildirim now heads.

A man sells flags showing Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan during a rally in Istanbul on Monday against the recent failed coup. PHOTO: OZAN KOSE/AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE/GETTY IMAGES

The Turkish government has five ongoing court cases against Mr. Gulen and his alleged sympathizers, according to Turkish officials.

Mr. Erdogan and Mr. Gulen were once longtime allies in trying to break the lock that the nation’s military has had on political and social life. When Mr. Erdogan’s party came to power in 2002, the government helped promote Mr. Gulen’s followers into key parts of the civil service.

However, the two men fell out in 2013, and President Erdogan accused the imam’s supporters in the judiciary of attempting a soft coup in the guise of a major corruption investigation into his political allies. Soon after, the Turkish leader removed some of those prosecutors from their posts and the corruption indictments were quashed.

“Before we considered these people to be respected [members of society]. Even people from our circles used to send our kids to their schools,” said Mr. Yildirim.

The court cases started before the coup accuse Mr. Gulen of crimes including leaking classified intelligence, financial crimes and organizing an armed terrorist group.

Mr. Gulen hasn't taken part in these court cases and denies any wrongdoing. His followers criticize the charges as politically motivated.

Mr. Yildirim said that Turkey has sent files to U.S. officials related to these cases, asking for arrest warrants to be issued.

Demands for extradition are now more urgent, Mr. Yildirim said, because the same group of individuals has escalated what were nonviolent tactics against the Turkish government to armed uprising.

“We were not firm enough in our prosecution of this threat [before the coup]…But they turned. They became vicious in their attacks against us and the Turkish people,” he said.

—Emre Peker in Istanbul and Devlin Barrett and Paul Sonne in Washington contributed to this article.

 

[-SINAN-]

Reviewing the U.S.-Turkey extradition treaty. Article 7, paragraph 1(c) is the sticking point:

(1) A request relating to a person being prosecuted or who is charged with an offense, and who has yet to be convicted, shall be accompanied by the following:

(a) A warrant of arrest issued by a judge or other competent judicial officer;
(b) A statement of the facts of the case;
(c) Such evidence as, according to the laws of the Requested Party, would justify arrest and committal for trial of the person sought if the offense had been committed in the territory of the Requested Party;
(d) Evidence proving that the person sought is the person to whom the warrant of arrest refers, including information, if available, on nationality; and
(e) The text of the applicable laws of the Requesting Party, including the law defining the offense, the law prescribing the punishment for the offense, and the law relating to the limitation of legal proceedings or the enforcement of the penalty for the offense.​

Until Turkey provides the necessary information extradition cannot proceed, even if the U.S. government wants to kick Gulen out. Under Article 3, paragraph 1(a), an attempt against the Head of Government is explicitly not considered an excusable "offense of a political character". That includes conspiracy.

However, to prove conspiracy in the U.S. you need to proof of an agreement between the parties to commit a crime. One person claiming he conspired with somebody else does not itself constitute proof under U.S. law. There has to be evidence of two-way communication: a series of letters, wiretap records, etc. As far as I know, Turkey hasn't yet provided the U.S. with any of these.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/07/turkey-evidence-gulen-role-coup-160719083100864.html

I don't know what evidence has been sent by our officials, but i assume that they also knew of this treaty and acted in according to it.

However, i strongly believe that Gulen is a CIA asset. US is not going to hand him over.

There are 3 possibilities.
1-) US will keep Gulen on it's soil, while coming with excuses that they can't extradict him over this and that.
2-) They will locate him in a 3rd country.
3-) Kill him.

Also; what do you think about this.

Also, i found it interesting that Erdoğan will make it's first formal visit after the coup to Russia. And if you recall after all major military incidents, our officials would go to Brussels and debrief NATO over the incident (Syria downing our Jet, Downing of the Russian Jet, etc....) But this time, i mean this is the most serious military matter after the Invasion of Cyprus....no debrief.

Do you think it is kind of a diplomatic message or just a random visit, procedure not worth mentioning ?

Mr. Gulen, a moderate religious leader who counts millions of supporters in Turkey

Didn't read the rest of the article when i saw this;

Millions of supporters ? Really ? Did "The wall street journal" asked every Turkish citizen that if they support Gülen or not ? How can they deduce that Gülen has millions of followers within Turkey ?

 

[Solomon2]

I don't know what evidence has been sent by our officials, but i assume that they also knew of this treaty and acted in according to it. However, i strongly believe that Gulen is a CIA asset. US is not going to hand him over...

Even if "Gulen is a CIA asset" I can't see how the U.S. government can prevent his extradition under the terms of the U.S.-Turkey treaty.