Turkish Naval Programs

[MMM-E]

What's wrong with ESSM?

ESSM designed to counter even supersonic anti ship missile .... thats great
but ESSM can not provide even local area defense capability .... because of ESSM has flight altitude of 5 km

Turkish Navy 8 OHP class Frigates armed with SM-1 SAM which has flight altitude of 20 km to engage on Fighter Jets and Aircrafts for local area defense capability

but Turkish Navy needs wide area defense capability ... so Turkish Navy needs SAM such as ASTER-30 ( 120km range and 20km altitude ) for wide area defense capability

Turkey develops SIPER air defense missile ( 90-120km range and 20 km altitude )
also Turkey develops HISAR-NOKTA air defense missile ( 50km range and 15+ km altitude )


I class Frigate would be great , if armed with 8 cells MK-41 VLS for 32 x ESSM or HISAR-NOKTA for Ship point and local area defence ... and 16 cells MK-41 VLS for 16 SIPER SAMs for wide area defence ( total of 24 cells VLS )

İf Turkish Navy had wide area defence capability with SM-2 or ASTER-30 , then we would protect our soldiers in Idlib/Syria against Russia/Syrian Regime air strikes

and Turkish Navy OHP class Frigates protect GNA in Tripoli/Libya against air strikes but SM-1 SAM has range of only 35km km


Turkish Navy will have wide area defence capability with TF-2000 class Destroyer by 2027

 

[UkroTurk]

They add second radar because it is X band and it is more efficient for point defence.
Different wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation have different penetrating and reflection properties.
There are two basic marine radar frequencies commonly known as "X" and "S" band. "X" band, because of its higher frequency, 10 GHz provides a higher resolution and a crisper image while "S" band, at 3 GHz is less affected by rain and fog. In most situations larger vessels are fitted with both "X" and "S" band radars while smaller vessels will only have an "X" band.
The X-band radar can detect smaller objects than the S-band radar, that's a CIWS needs.

https://www.navyrecognition.com/ind...e-class-guided-missile-frigates-to-chile.html
Edit: i cant really understand why we shouldnt be interested in Australian frigates? The Perry class frigates have legendary SM-2 and ESSM.

This 2 ships are Perry class which is used by TurNavy. Turkish Navy knows every detail of the ship. TN can upgrade them. Neither Aster30 nore Siper will be option for close future. If Siper is ready in 2 years time, you wont be able to put them your frigates. You should wait own frigates. I also doubt Thales would supply software for smart-s and SIPER configuration. The reason that TN add second radar onto Barbaros class might be TN didnt want to be dependent on Thales.
Australia , Chile and Türkiye could agreed,If Türkiye gave 2 upgraded Gabya to Chile for 2 Perry class frigates with SM-2.
Dont underestimate SM-2 !SM-2 superior than Aster 30. We have all techinal basement for maintenance of Standard Missiles and Perry class.
Then TN would add them Gokdeniz, and X band radar if we got.

 

[SİLAHDAR]

Yes,i was mistaken dolphin has already been removed and replaced with smart-s, and it became confusing since they have switched masts in mlu, so literally in new form, mar-d would be in place of dolphin and smart-s moved to the fore mast.
In here they explain possible use of second radar with details;
http://www.trmilitary.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1697&start=400
gökdeniz can use smart-s or mar-d, this was my point. there are 3 ciws on this ship and 1 radar wouldn't have been enough for the scenarios it has been prepared.
siper? yet the missile the national vls wont be ready until second I-class, means all barbaros upgrades would have been completed by then.
aster? could be, but that also means replacement of the vls, and it is not mentioned in anywhere neither in the upgrade package.
As i have told before, if TN has options for better aerial defence, they would have applied it on I-class instead of barbaros class.

1. Barbaros mlu is have 2 ciws and also phalanx have own ku band fcs on top of him. Also two system can take radar image from s band smart radar.
2. I can agree you but you forget one thing, all i class operational date too far than mlu and i class also usess same powerpack with milgems and adding extra weight with extra vls, radars and missiles can decrease performance is very badly when already extra 10 meter decreased them.
3.I readed before topic on trmilitary but if plan is the engageing more targets with essm why not we cant see that kind of radar and sensor complex on İ class ?

 

[ANMDT]

1. Barbaros mlu is have 2 ciws and also phalanx have own ku band fcs on top of him. Also two system can take radar image from s band smart radar.
2. I can agree you but you forget one thing, all i class operational date too far than mlu and i class also usess same powerpack with milgems and adding extra weight with extra vls, radars and missiles can decrease performance is very badly when already extra 10 meter decreased them.
3.I readed before topic on trmilitary but if plan is the engageing more targets with essm why not we cant see that kind of radar and sensor complex on İ class ?

barbaros mlu has gokdeniz, gokdeniz also has its own ku band FCS on itself. you would need to detect incoming threats and engage systems onto that, radars are not my expertise there could be people who can describe it better but ESSM+gökdeniz+phalanx relying on smart-s didnt seem effective.
I class will be operational about the same time barbaros's mlu has finished, the rest I class will be built in parallel shipyards so by 2024-2025 we might have all I class active.
We dont know everything about I class yet, all avaliable designs were dating back in the concept stages , TN hasn't published the latest form,it could be as is or there could be difference. and barbaros might be given a different role (such as protecting tcg anadolu or flotillas). should also note I class was based on milgem, has lots in common therefore adding an extra mast would require new arrangements so its kept as is.
I class will be fast and agile (i doubt in terms of maneuverability) as much as milgems. Even it could have been faster. Adding extra length only increases viscous friction, we don't know anything regarding to wave interference.

The image above will surprise you (it is not related to milgem or any military ship's form), going faster but resulting in less drag? indeed.
changing length of the ship also changes the Froude number, moreover I-class has received minor hydrodynamic modifications.

 

[SİLAHDAR]

barbaros mlu has gokdeniz, gokdeniz also has its own ku band FCS on itself. you would need to detect incoming threats and engage systems onto that, radars are not my expertise there could be people who can describe it better but ESSM+gökdeniz+phalanx relying on smart-s didnt seem effective.
I class will be operational about the same time barbaros's mlu has finished, the rest I class will be built in parallel shipyards so by 2024-2025 we might have all I class active.
We dont know everything about I class yet, all avaliable designs were dating back in the concept stages , TN hasn't published the latest form,it could be as is or there could be difference. and barbaros might be given a different role (such as protecting tcg anadolu or flotillas). should also note I class was based on milgem, has lots in common therefore adding an extra mast would require new arrangements so its kept as is.
I class will be fast and agile (i doubt in terms of maneuverability) as much as milgems. Even it could have been faster. Adding extra length only increases viscous friction, we don't know anything regarding to wave interference.

The image above will surprise you (it is not related to milgem or any military ship's form), going faster but resulting in less drag? indeed.
changing length of the ship also changes the Froude number, moreover I-class has received minor hydrodynamic modifications.

Pfff..bro you try hard for your chance.

1. Where you know smart isn't effective are you thales or aselsan engineer or sonething ? France are operate aster 15-30 and ciws with herakles radar which equal to smart-s mk2 . That is just a your dream for converting i classes to air defence frigates.

2. Also thats just a modernization ofcourse finishes early than i class. Even i class serial production agreement not finished. Stop the dream .

3. İ class design is frozen. We had see him in idef 2019 . İts already builded ship for change of forms we need wait new block of i class or i class mlu.

4. Are you okey ? How you think a one ship a dont loose his maneuvrability and speed when he gain 600 tonnes more weight (%25 of his tonnage and if you convert him air defence extra 600 tonnes add and this time weight incraese %50 more. So cmonn he can ofcourse lose of his speed.

 

[UkroTurk]

Pfff..bro you try hard for your chance.

1. Where you know smart isn't effective are you thales or aselsan engineer or sonething ? France are operate aster 15-30 and ciws with herakles radar which equal to smart-s mk2 . That is just a your dream for converting i classes to air defence frigates.

2. Also thats just a modernization ofcourse finishes early than i class. Even i class serial production agreement not finished. Stop the dream .

3. İ class design is frozen. We had see him in idef 2019 . İts already builded ship for change of forms we need wait new block of i class or i class mlu.

4. Are you okey ? How you think a one ship a dont loose his maneuvrability and speed when he gain 600 tonnes more weight (%25 of his tonnage and if you convert him air defence extra 600 tonnes add and this time weight incraese %50 more. So cmonn he can ofcourse lose of his speed.

Brothers please calm down both you are two saying nearly samething.
French ships notably lack CIWS that might be the reason.
Crotale systems which belong french frigates have own radar.
X band and S band radar combination is great. We need to be happy for our Barbaros class.

 

[ANMDT]

Pfff..bro you try hard for your chance.

1. Where you know smart isn't effective are you thales or aselsan engineer or sonething ? France are operate aster 15-30 and ciws with herakles radar which equal to smart-s mk2 . That is just a your dream for converting i classes to air defence frigates.

2. Also thats just a modernization ofcourse finishes early than i class. Even i class serial production agreement not finished. Stop the dream .

3. İ class design is frozen. We had see him in idef 2019 . İts already builded ship for change of forms we need wait new block of i class or i class mlu.

4. Are you okey ? How you think a one ship a dont loose his maneuvrability and speed when he gain 600 tonnes more weight (%25 of his tonnage and if you convert him air defence extra 600 tonnes add and this time weight incraese %50 more. So cmonn he can ofcourse lose of his speed.

Allright , you are the expert on every matter. starting from radars, to ciws, to the hydrodynamics and maneuvrability.

 

[ANMDT]

1. Where you know smart isn't effective are you thales or aselsan engineer or sonething ? France are operate aster 15-30 and ciws with herakles radar which equal to smart-s mk2 . That is just a your dream for converting i classes to air defence frigates.

I have never claimed that smart-s wasn't effective, in contrast i say it is efficient but clearly TN has some intentions-purposes to include mar-d in mlu.

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1259793785778769920

Barbaros loves AKR-D firecontrol radar

 

[Glass]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1259867762396205057

 

[Nilgiri]

barbaros mlu has gokdeniz, gokdeniz also has its own ku band FCS on itself. you would need to detect incoming threats and engage systems onto that, radars are not my expertise there could be people who can describe it better but ESSM+gökdeniz+phalanx relying on smart-s didnt seem effective.
I class will be operational about the same time barbaros's mlu has finished, the rest I class will be built in parallel shipyards so by 2024-2025 we might have all I class active.
We dont know everything about I class yet, all avaliable designs were dating back in the concept stages , TN hasn't published the latest form,it could be as is or there could be difference. and barbaros might be given a different role (such as protecting tcg anadolu or flotillas). should also note I class was based on milgem, has lots in common therefore adding an extra mast would require new arrangements so its kept as is.
I class will be fast and agile (i doubt in terms of maneuverability) as much as milgems. Even it could have been faster. Adding extra length only increases viscous friction, we don't know anything regarding to wave interference.

The image above will surprise you (it is not related to milgem or any military ship's form), going faster but resulting in less drag? indeed.
changing length of the ship also changes the Froude number, moreover I-class has received minor hydrodynamic modifications.

Wow what pleasant surprise to stumble across this thread and this particular post! Please post more of this as you can and have time for .

This seems an intrinsic harmonic characteristic (given the overall family of curves) stemming from the elasticity+density+viscosity of water (or any such non-compressible newtonian fluid)...and as you "break" it with a geometry producing a wake...with perturbed transverse components (that create resonance points w.r.t resistance/ease at specific interesting regimes like we see in your graph)

Similar phenomena happens with air and other fluids, the most notable of course reached there is various significant reversals of a number of fundamental properties between subsonic and supersonic regimes (driven by air's compressibility though...something that doesn't exist for most liquids). But there are lot of more nuanced effects noticed across reynolds number regime depending on what property of the fluid (w.r.t application be it providing lift or turbulence for burning fuel etc etc) you intend to prioritise as a desired effect.

 

[dBSPL]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1259867762396205057

 

[UkroTurk]

It has also smart S radar The ship has helicopter landing deck so it should control Air traffic? Am i wrong?

 

[Oguzbalasi]

it's for air defence.

 

[Deino]

"If the need for the 2nd LHD arrises, we can build it. We have the capabilites and shipyards for this.
As of now there is no need for a 2nd lhd, construction of TCG Anadolu goes on flawlessly."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1258429543687258117

So that should also clarify some things regarding the rumors of a 2nd lhd.

Was this already posted?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1258078896358113280

... and what's now without an air asset?