Turkish Naval Programs

[Kamil_baku]

What is our domestic turbine engine? More info please

i talk about diesel engine.. in the future ships will switch to diesel and batteries..

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

i talk about diesel engine.. in the future ships will switch to diesel and batteries..

Are we gonna get off the horse and ride the donkey ?

 

[Kamil_baku]

Are we gonna get off the horse and ride the donkey ?

haha no but we have a proverb that ride a donkey until you reach the horse

 

[ANMDT]

Are we gonna get off the horse and ride the donkey ?

Diesel engines are not the Donkey in this comparison, they are good ,and preferrable as gas turbines.
Especially if you are running low on spare parts, diesel engines are a good choice with well known experience and being able to mount/dismount it at the sea within a day,whereas for gas turbine you would be seeking for delivery or running plainly on diesels .
Gas turbine is a luxury, trading off the volume it saves wouldnt hurt much.
We better move on towards the combined electrical drives,since the electricity load of modern warships are slowly shifting to electronic devices in terms of majority of consumption.

 

[SİLAHDAR]

Brothers I have question ;

Our Çafrad x band Çfr radar can will be work to long ranges in S band mode ?

 

[Oublious]

Brothers I have question ;

Our Çafrad x band Çfr radar can will be work to long ranges in S band mode ?

Cafrad is a xband radar, the long range will be s band.

 

[SİLAHDAR]

Cafrad is a xband radar, the long range will be s band.

We all know that. But I'm asked him for possibility of the usage of çfr on İ class instead of Smart-s Mk2.
Just because directly rivals of this ships radars a.k.a italian freems kronos and belharra's se fire more advanced than him. On the other hand if egypt buy f-35b and use him on his 2 mistral we need immidaetly air defence ships on mediterranian sea.

We cannot wait 2027+'s until a real tf-2000 fleets come. So we need a advanced and Long range air defence missile operatable radars on our ships. İf required we can intagrate a siper, aster-30 or 9m96e2 missiles in national vls on İ class Frigate. Yes he have a lot of vls just 16 but we can establish a additional vls's many point of the ship if required.

I think x band radar if operate s band hers range will be large 150 to 300. Because Americans first want to use two radar on zumwaltt class x band an/spy-3 or s band an/spy-4 but due to lack of budget . After that they canceled an/spy-4 and added an/spy-3 s band mode. But you know an/spy-3 x band range is 320 km and we cannot wait Zumwaltt kind of ship carry s band radar ranged 320 km ? This is very low for him. Even Turkey's çafrad umr is 450 km ranged Zumwaltt cannot be carry 320 km ranged s band radar.

So it must be 1.5 or 2 times have more range on s band instead of x band. As you know we are testing x band 150 km ranged çfr radars but we will wait s band umr radars for 2023's . I think Çfr on İ class with S band mode possible range is 300 km is very fine for this ship.

 

[Oublious]

We all know that. But I'm asked him for possibility of the usage of çfr on İ class instead of Smart-s Mk2.
Just because directly rivals of this ships radars a.k.a italian freems kronos and belharra's se fire more advanced than him. On the other hand if egypt buy f-35b and use him on his 2 mistral we need immidaetly air defence ships on mediterranian sea.

We cannot wait 2027+'s until a real tf-2000 fleets come. So we need a advanced and Long range air defence missile operatable radars on our ships. İf required we can intagrate a siper, aster-30 or 9m96e2 missiles in national vls on İ class Frigate. Yes he have a lot of vls just 16 but we can establish a additional vls's many point of the ship if required.

I think x band radar if operate s band hers range will be large 150 to 300. Because Americans first want to use two radar on zumwaltt class x band an/spy-3 or s band an/spy-4 but due to lack of budget . After that they canceled an/spy-4 and added an/spy-3 s band mode. But you know an/spy-3 x band range is 320 km and we cannot wait Zumwaltt kind of ship carry s band radar ranged 320 km ? This is very low for him. Even Turkey's çafrad umr is 450 km ranged Zumwaltt cannot be carry 320 km ranged s band radar.

So it must be 1.5 or 2 times have more range on s band instead of x band. As you know we are testing x band 150 km ranged çfr radars but we will wait s band umr radars for 2023's . I think Çfr on İ class with S band mode possible range is 300 km is very fine for this ship.

In a ocean or sea environment range is irrelevant. You will never hit a fighter or a cruise/antiship missile from 100 km distance. Never happened and never will be happen, you enemy will fire missiles cruising 10 meter above the water. You will see the missile coming from max 40 km, so a radar with range of 500 km is in this case irrelevant. If we are going to use it against ballistic missile lets do it.

We need DATA link, every ship and fighter should be able to see what our AEW detect. Because the earth is round you enemy will fly lower then you radar covarage, en when that happen you will need a AEW.

Network Centric warfare capabilities is what we need.

 

[mete]

In a ocean or sea environment range is irrelevant. You will never hit a fighter or a cruise/antiship missile from 100 km distance. Never happened and never will be happen, you enemy will fire missiles cruising 10 meter above the water. You will see the missile coming from max 40 km, so a radar with range of 500 km is in this case irrelevant. If we are going to use it against ballistic missile lets do it.

We need DATA link, every ship and fighter should be able to see what our AEW detect. Because the earth is round you enemy will fly lower then you radar covarage, en when that happen you will need a AEW.

Network Centric warfare capabilities is what we need.

With lower frequency radars you can detect airborne targets from thousands km away. You just bounce the wave from ionosphere. There are 2 problems. There is too much noise but you can eliminate this by deep learning algorithms. Second problem is dispersion of ionosphere really changes a lot at night/day cycles. So you need alternative frequencies for day and night times. When you do that you can detect a lot of things from far far away. It might be possible to detect ships too. Only bad side of lower frequencies that your resolution drops like mad. So it might be a problem to pinpoint the details of your targets especially when your range increases. As another plus side; stealth planes are designed against modern hig frequency radars, they are not steath against old school low frequencies.

If you can detect a ship from 200 km away you can hit it if you have missiles. "It will never happen" might not be a good sentence to say when we are at a age of rapid technological development.

As far as I remember Meteksan is building a new data link.

 

[SoftKill]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1156869452555837440

 

[HRK]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1156869452555837440

Translation plz

 

[Test7]

Translation plz

ASFAT(Milgem manufacturer) and Meteksan signed a sonar agreement. Meteksan's sonar will be used on Milgem corvettes which will be produced for Pakistan.

http://www.meteksan.com/media/file/yakamos-brosur-eng_1522760303.pdf

 

[Oublious]

With lower frequency radars you can detect airborne targets from thousands km away. You just bounce the wave from ionosphere. There are 2 problems. There is too much noise but you can eliminate this by deep learning algorithms. Second problem is dispersion of ionosphere really changes a lot at night/day cycles. So you need alternative frequencies for day and night times. When you do that you can detect a lot of things from far far away. It might be possible to detect ships too. Only bad side of lower frequencies that your resolution drops like mad. So it might be a problem to pinpoint the details of your targets especially when your range increases. As another plus side; stealth planes are designed against modern hig frequency radars, they are not steath against old school low frequencies.

If you can detect a ship from 200 km away you can hit it if you have missiles. "It will never happen" might not be a good sentence to say when we are at a age of rapid technological development.

As far as I remember Meteksan is building a new data link.

Over the horizon radar are you talking about, every body is working on that but still not able to use it. A long range radar on a vessel is irrelevant and that is mine opinion. And yes meteksan is working on a datalink, but how far are we?

 

[CAN_TR]

 

[SİLAHDAR]

Friends There is a very good opportunity for us to expect that we might be able to play on the design of class I (there were rumors that production slowed down.) What is the primary need of our navy now? Air defense frigate. So we'll wait for the first ship of this class at least 2027. But in the current conjuncture, in the absence of such a ship in 7 years, do we lose a lot? Yeah. Did you know that we can close this gap with a small cost increase and workload?



So why ?





Class I is a ship that we can call a long-range anti-surface warfare frigate. But thanks to the operational flexibility of the Vls and advanced versatile radars, a single ship can do most of the offshore / anti-air / anti-surface / anti-submarine missions sometimes. For example, Fremm, Belharra, Sigma Series and German ships developed over Meko are examples. On behalf of both the above-mentioned need and the export potential of the ship, we can take this ship to a much higher level than expected with a few minor changes.



So How?


We can achieve this with 2 changes;

1- Chafrad Çfr S band version change with Smart-S Mk2;

As we know, Smart-s is a radar that is loved by the navy but is a if we compared to the old ones, but in real terms in the near future navy environment. Çfr is a multi-functional x band radar called Çfr. The range is called 150 km, but the officials in the ideals implied that there could be more. Even if it is 150 km, we already have this radar radar If we operate in the S band (which is possible with this software)like smart-s mk2, sea fire 500 from bellhara, fremm in herakles and so on., the radar will be able to operate at much longer ranges than the range in the x band.

The reason why it can reach long ranges is that the s band needs much less power than the x band and cannot be sure of its low frequency. Likewise, the US in zumwallt AN / SPY-3 radar x band AN / SPY-4 S-band long-range planning to use AN / SPY-4 to cancel the AN / SPY-3 software has added S and x / s double band has chosen to use it. If a radar had no longer range in the S-band than the X-band, we would have called a ship like Abd Zumwaltt to install a 320 km long-range radar, which is the x-band range of AN / SPY-3, and that is unacceptable. Moreover, the Sea Fire 500 is a high-performance radar with a quadratic module area but s tape. And all of the above mentioned radars with the help of fire control radar Aster-30 and so on. long range air defense missiles.

Therefore, if we use the S band mode of Çafrad çfr and Aseksan Akr-D Block-2 120 km x band fire control radar to the İ class, we gain Long range Air Defence capability to this ship.




2-) Increasing the Vls Capacity to 32 or at least 24;


As we know, it is obvious that even a Milgemin can fit 8xvls in front of a ship that is 13 meters taller than class i, 32x vls can be placed in front of both models and drawings. We stayed but only 24x tactical vls. That would be enough. With 8 Quadpack features, we can carry 32 essm 16 and sm-2 / aster-30 / Trench / 9m96e2 whichever we want and adapt to radar. And so we get a light air defense frigate.

When it is considered in 16 atmaca capable of attacking within the ship, the ship will be Light Tf-2000. When the Tf-2000s entered the inventory, long-range air defense missiles were removed from these ships, and they were deployed for 16 vls quadpack 64 essm / g-40 and 8x vls anti-submarine weapons by placing Vl-asroc or local equivalent anti-submarine weapons. we can translate an asw / asuw escort. The unit cost of the ship increases by a maximum of 100 euros to an average of 50 million euros, but still remains a cost effective ship.

This is very, very important for us, given that at least 2 peer-to-peer buildings are provided when the first TF-2000 is included in the inventory.