Turkish Naval Programs

[Seyfullah]

IDEF 2017 Naval News - CNIM & DEARSAN LCAT




IDEF 2017: CNIM Partnering with DEARSAN to Pitch L-CAT for Turkish Navy LHD

At IDEF 2017, the international defense exhibition currently held in Istanbul, Turkey, Navy Recognition learned that French company CNIM is partnering with DEARSAN Shipyard to propose the L-CAT to the Turkish Navy.

CNIM LCAT scale model on DEARSAN stand at IDEF 2017

The two companies are proposing the L-CAT ship to shore connector to the Turkish Navy for its future LHD. If selected, the L-CAT would be built by DEARSAN in Turkey.

L-CAT® Ship-to-Shore is a sea & combat proven landing craft.It is in active service since 2011 in the French Navy and since 2016 in the Egyptian Navy. It proves each day its ability to support the Armed Forces on a global scale for both military and civilian assistance operations.

Measuring 30 meters long and 12.6 meters wide, the L-CAT® Ship-to-Shore offers a maximum payload capacity of 80 tons. It can reach speeds of up to 30 knots when empty, and 18 knots when loaded to maximum payload. During amphibious operations, it guarantees optimal transit speed, rapid loading and unloading of the deck, and thus a reduction of threat exposure time, while enabling a mother ship to remain a safe distance from the coastline if necessary.

Turkish Navy future LHD model on display during IDEF 2017

Turkey's Undersecretariat for Defense Industries (SSM) announced in December 2013 that it selected Sedef shipyard as winner of its LPD tender and that final contract negotiations with this shipyard could begin. Sedef shipyard in Turkey offers a design based on Juan Carlos LHD under the collaboration with Spain's Navantia.

 

[aziqbal]

For a real over the horizon landing a LCAC would have been the preferred choice

But I guess the opitions for suppliers are limited

L-CAT is pretty slow

Also I seriously hope they don't try and add a F35B into this unit it will just be a nightmare

Build a 2nd LHD optimised for air oops do not try and mix and match fixed and rotary wing on a 30,000 ton vessel

 

[-------]

For a real over the horizon landing a LCAC would have been the preferred choice

But I guess the opitions for suppliers are limited

L-CAT is pretty slow

Also I seriously hope they don't try and add a F35B into this unit it will just be a nightmare

Build a 2nd LHD optimised for air oops do not try and mix and match fixed and rotary wing on a 30,000 ton vessel

Pretty sure STM is designing an LCAC.

 

[cabatli_53]

IDEF 2017: Concept submarine offer for Turkish MiLDEN

A new diesel-electric submarine design from Turkish shipbuilder STM for the Turkish Navy's National Submarine (MiLDEN) has been displayed at IDEF.

The model on the stand is intended to be an offering for a future MiLDEN project that could be the first step toward moving Turkish naval manufacturing capacity away from foreign designs like Germany's TKMS Type 209 and Type 214TN designs used so far.

This was brought sharply into focus during the recent procurement of the new Reis-class (Type 214TN) submarines via TKMS under the New Type Submarine Programme (NTSP), which were delayed due to stability issues when surfaced.

These have been resolved and the first boat is due to be outfitted later this year with delivery in 2020-21, with all six handed over by 2026. These are replacing the Type 209s but more boats will be needed and this is when a MiLDEN project could begin.

TS1700 is 60.14m-long with a diameter of 6.5m and a displacement of 1,740t submerged. It can dive to a depth of 300m+ and there is accommodation for 25 crew and six special forces personnel.

A spokesperson for STM told Shephard that the boat is not a midget submarine as they are much smaller and that is has space for eight torpedoes with a total capacity for 16, much like a standard diesel-electric conventional submarine.

According to STM the roles of the submarine include submarine warfare, ISR, special operations, mine warfare, network centric warfare and land attack. This suggests that there will be a substantial mast observation and EW system expected as well as possible land attack missiles fitted in the torpedo tubes as there are no vertical launch tubes in the model design. Four of the eight tubes are for guided missiles.

The boat design has an LPI radar, search and attack periscopes, torpedo countermeasures, ESM, sonar and a buoyant wire antenna.

It has air independent propulsion, a Permanent Excited Propulsion Motor of 3MW and two 1,000kW diesel generators. This gives TS1700 a top speed of over 20kt and the boat can stay at sea for 90 days. Equipment is mounted on double elastic platforms protecting them from underwater blasts.

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/imps-news/idef-2017-concept-submarine-offer-turkish-milden/

 

[Mr.Department]

which were delayed due to stability issues when surfaced.

That was the same for Greek subs

Quote :

"Retired Rear Admiral M. Simionakis, who had been in charge of the Papanikolis program for the navy, told the interviewer that the manufacturer had made 2 attempts to fix a severe balance problem in the submarine, including shifting 21 tons of material from the top to the bottom, yet the vessel continued to heel as much as 46 degrees in sea trials. Photographic evidence of the severe heeling was presented. In the same TV program, the officer replacing Simionakis in Kiel, Capt. K. Tziotis, listed 7 ongoing, serious problems with the vessel, including balance problems when traveling on the surface, problems with the AIP system, problems with the weapon system, problems with the periscope, and problems with flooding."

 

[monitor]

Anadolu LPD under construction for Turkish Navy. Model on TAIS stand #IDEF2017 @NavantiaOficial design. They aim to deliver early in 2020!

2 replies 25 retweets 43 likes

 

[Mr.Department]

@monitor

Buddy, fully equipped or launching ?

 

[Mr.Department]

Short summary of a private Interview with STM official at IDEF 2017 :

Thanks to Raptor 44

TF- 4500 is a new warship comparable with French Fremm class.
Displacement is 4500 tons.
We followed the trend and needs of international customers.
TF-4500 is not comparable with TF-2000 which will be an Air Defence Frigate with 6000 tons displacement.
TF-4500 will be a multipurpose frigate with state of the art and stealth technologies.
It fills the gap between Milgem corvette and TF-2000 frigate .
Armament is 127 mm main cannon, then 32 cell VLS - MK 41 ( for ESSM, Sparrow or others due to customer wishes ), in front and heck 2 x 21 cell RAM, at both sides 2 x STAMP cannons and 8 - cell Harrpoon launcher on deck. At last one helicopter hangar and deck.
We preferred AIRBUS radars, cause all systems have to be proven for the customer.
Later we can integrate CAFRA , Atmaca o rRailgun if it they are proven and customers order them.

Downloadlink - as MP3 or AMR

https://www.file-upload.net/download-12499323/notes_recording_1494576575327.mp3.html

http://dosya.co/1ysdhg53uyfj/notes_recording_1494576575327.amr.html

 

[T-123456]

TF4500 is a monohull vessel designed to perform anti-air warfare duties on the open seas, under heavy sea conditions, equipped with gas turbine and diesel propulsion system. STM engineers focused on stealth when designing this vessel, the end result is a surface combatant featuring very futuristic lines

TF4500 has been designed for the following missions:
- Command and control
- Air defence
- Anti-surface warfare
- Air and surface surveillance and sea control including helicopter operations
- Engagement of surface and air targets
- EEZ monitoring and surveillance
- Anti-smuggling
- Vital sea lanes protection



TF4500 has the following capabilities and features:
- Operations up to sea state 6+
- Reduced radar cross section
- Reduced IR signature
- Reduced acoustic signature

The vessel is 150.36 meters in length overall, 16.50 meters in breadth with a draft of 4.50 meters and a displacement of 4500 tons. Its maximum speed is over 32 knots and its range is 7000 nautical miles at a speed of 18 knots. The crew complement is 140 sailors and the endurance of the frigate is 30 days.

Based on the model, TF4500 is fitted with a 76mm main gun, 2x 25mm RWS, 2x RAM launchers, 32x VLS cells, 16x Anti-ship missiles, decoy launchers, torpedo launchers and sonar system. The helicopter deck can accommodate a 10 tons-class helicopter.

Concept of new x-TF-4500 missile frigate

 

[AnatolianEagle]

TCG Anadolu L400 updates;

Specifications;
- Since last year 18 blocks has been built so far of 112 blocks.
- 2021 delivery to naval forces.

 

[aziqbal]

Interesting 18 blocks have been built

Is there just one shipyard building the blocks ? Or a few of them ?

Block building construction is something Turkey needs to get good at if it wants to start large warship building

The co ordination, timing and synchronised building of blocks is something you can't learn until you have done it yourself

Is there any info on a second unit ?

 

[Silahtar]

The Evaluation of TCG Istanbul’s Design

During the IDEF 2015 12th International Defense Industry Fair, Turkish Navy shared the first conceptual drawing of the second generation of Milgem class. There was a poster about TCG Istanbul on the Turkish Naval Forces booth during IDEF 2017 too.

I though it would be interesting to compare the photos and see how the design of TCG Istanbul has evolved.

Not surprisingly there are a few changes in design on the outside. Any changes made inside the ship remains elusive. The changes are focused between the bow and midships. It seems as the design of the ship from midships to aft has been found satisfactory.

The most important change is in the shape of the bridge and the mast.Lets look at them:
1. If the darker patches along the hull indicate openable hatches, there is a new hatch at location 1. On Ada class corvettes this area is used for replenishment. Since the design of TCG İstanbul is based on Ada class it is safe to assume that this area will be used for replenishment too. Thus there was a need to implement a hatch there to ease the operations there.

2. The location of the SATCOM antennas has changed. In 2015 there were located towards to the end of the mast. In 2017 there were moved a few meters to the front.

3. There are new antennas there. Their place and shape suggests antennas for an on board electronic warfare system. Probable a local development. The antennas of STACOM and ESM are pretty close. I hope they won’t create any interference.

4. The photos are not quite detailed but the electro-optical tracking and detection system has changed. In 2015 it was round and ball-shaped like ASELFLIR 300D. In 2017 it has a distinct rectangular shape of Denizgözü-Ahtapot. So the old system used on Ada class corvettes and Tuzla class patrol boats was replaced with a new generation sensor.

5. The shape of the bridge, and the forward part of the mast has changed. In 2015 the forward surfaces had a more slanted slope. In 2017 the slopes are more steep. The roof of the bridge is also less clustered and has more clean lines.

6. The all closed bow guards rails has been modified. The newer version has a bow bulwark and open guard rails. This must have changed the stealthiness of the ship. But the trade-off between becoming a little less stealth and having a flexible forward maneuvering area must be important for the handlers.

The sensors with the exception of the EO system and addition of ESM system and the weapons seem to be unchanged.

https://turkishnavy.net/2017/05/19/the-evaluation-of-tcg-istanbuls-design/

 

[Mr.Department]

TF-4500 will be a multipurpose frigate with state of the art and stealth technologies.
It fills the gap between Milgem corvette and TF-2000 frigate .

There was a poster about TCG Istanbul on the Turkish Naval Forces booth during IDEF 2017 too.

So, we can estimate the displacement of I- class, for sure more then 2300 tons but less then 4500 tons.
I guess a almost 120 meter and round about 3500 tons.

@Bubblegum Crisis Bro. Your opinion ?

 

[ziya]

can you see this on i class

we have electronic support system ares 2n on milgems but we have to national electronic war system on i class ships without it we suffer to manage incoming anti ship missiles

 

[Advocate Pakistan]

The Evaluation of TCG Istanbul’s Design

During the IDEF 2015 12th International Defense Industry Fair, Turkish Navy shared the first conceptual drawing of the second generation of Milgem class. There was a poster about TCG Istanbul on the Turkish Naval Forces booth during IDEF 2017 too.

I though it would be interesting to compare the photos and see how the design of TCG Istanbul has evolved.

Not surprisingly there are a few changes in design on the outside. Any changes made inside the ship remains elusive. The changes are focused between the bow and midships. It seems as the design of the ship from midships to aft has been found satisfactory.

The most important change is in the shape of the bridge and the mast.Lets look at them:
1. If the darker patches along the hull indicate openable hatches, there is a new hatch at location 1. On Ada class corvettes this area is used for replenishment. Since the design of TCG İstanbul is based on Ada class it is safe to assume that this area will be used for replenishment too. Thus there was a need to implement a hatch there to ease the operations there.

2. The location of the SATCOM antennas has changed. In 2015 there were located towards to the end of the mast. In 2017 there were moved a few meters to the front.

3. There are new antennas there. Their place and shape suggests antennas for an on board electronic warfare system. Probable a local development. The antennas of STACOM and ESM are pretty close. I hope they won’t create any interference.

4. The photos are not quite detailed but the electro-optical tracking and detection system has changed. In 2015 it was round and ball-shaped like ASELFLIR 300D. In 2017 it has a distinct rectangular shape of Denizgözü-Ahtapot. So the old system used on Ada class corvettes and Tuzla class patrol boats was replaced with a new generation sensor.

5. The shape of the bridge, and the forward part of the mast has changed. In 2015 the forward surfaces had a more slanted slope. In 2017 the slopes are more steep. The roof of the bridge is also less clustered and has more clean lines.

6. The all closed bow guards rails has been modified. The newer version has a bow bulwark and open guard rails. This must have changed the stealthiness of the ship. But the trade-off between becoming a little less stealth and having a flexible forward maneuvering area must be important for the handlers.

The sensors with the exception of the EO system and addition of ESM system and the weapons seem to be unchanged.

https://turkishnavy.net/2017/05/19/the-evaluation-of-tcg-istanbuls-design/

There are also differences in the lower part (hull) of the ship. The latest model has slightly elongated bilge keel that merges with the hull more uniformly the older had abrupt change in bilge keel.
The hull mounted sonar dome is also elongated in newer model.
The area around propellers is cleaner in profile also, which also indicates a slightly elongated deck area.