I thought they were your buddies as well? You're in NATO and you had been best friends with the Germans for more than a century. Or is your diplomatic and military strength only good enough against the SAA and Kurdish guerillas?
.
How on earth am I trying to "troll my way out"? I just told you that the Syrian government has asked both Turkey and USA to leave Syria. Are you not getting it? Besides,I posted all the arguements why Turkish claims in the Aegean are completely baseless.I going to put it together for you, you a greece troll troling every chance against Turkey about neighbour countries. When it get complex you are trying to troll your way out.
What happened to Syrian sovereignty? When Turkey is in Syria bad, but your master Germany and USA you are quit about it
In international relations you are either a realist, or a liberal, or a utopist. So when someone escalates their demands(e.g. Turkey), then you either react with the appeasement policy, or you react dynamically with increasing your reaction power. Therefore, any utopian proposition is crushed by the aggression, which greedily devours it.
The Foundation Act of 1997 which I guess both Turkey and Greece accepts states that countries can choose their own means of security.There was a nice article from Ptisi today,about why the Turkish government has absolutely no legal right on their claims and the whole fuss they have been making about the islands is ridiculous.
Specifically,from the Treaty of Lausanne:
ARTICLE 25.
Turkey undertakes to recognise the full force of the Treaties of Peace and additional Conventions concluded by the other Contracting Powers with the Powers who fought on the side of Turkey, and to recognise whatever dispositions have been or may be made concerning the territories of the former German Empire, of Austria, of Hungary and of Bulgaria, and to recognise the new States within their frontiers as there laid down.
ARTICLE 26.
Turkey hereby recognises and accepts the frontiers of Germany, Austria, Bulgaria, Greece, Hungary, Poland, Roumania, the Serb-Croat-Slovene State and the Czechoslovak State, as these frontiers have been or may be determined by the Treaties referred to in Article 25 or by any supplementary conventions.
ARTICLE 27.
No power or jurisdiction in political, legislative or administrative matters shall be exercised outside Turkish territory by the Turkish Government or authorities, for any reason whatsoever, over the nationals of a territory placed under the sovereignty or protectorate of the other Powers signatory of the present Treaty, or over the nationals of a territory detached from Turkey.
It is understood that the spiritual attributions of the Moslem religious authorities are in no way infringed.
The article continues:
The allies having secured the sovereignty of the British over the occupied Cyprus and the Italians over the occupied Dodecanese (with the simultaneous renunciation by the Turks of all rights over these islands as well as everything outside the territory of Turkey) also ratify with the Treaty of Lausanne ( following the decisions of the London conference in 1914) the sovereignty of Greece over the rest of the Northern Mediterranean.
And rightly so, the text validates the sovereignty of Greece in this way, because we must not forget that the Eastern Mediterranean included, apart from the innumerable islands of the Aegean, the other great territorial acquisition of Greece, namely Crete, and the adjacent islands and islets , Gavdos etc. As early as December 1, 1913, Crete was officially incorporated into the Greek state. Exactly one month earlier (November 1, 1913), Sultan Mehmet V had relinquished all right of suzerainty over the big island. So the allies rightly refer to Greece as having sovereignty over the entire Southern Mediterranean, including Crete and all the Aegean islands.
ARTICLE 12.
The decision taken on the 13th February, 1914, by the Conference of London, in virtue of Articles 5 of the Treaty of London of the 17th-30th May, 1913, and 15 of the Treaty of Athens of the 1st-14th November, 1913, which decision was communicated to the Greek Government on the 13th February, 1914, regarding the sovereignty of Greece over the islands of the Eastern Mediterranean, other than the islands of Imbros, Tenedos and Rabbit Islands, particularly the islands of Lemnos, Samothrace, Mytilene, Chios, Samos and Nikaria, is confirmed, subject to the provisions of the present Treaty respecting the islands placed under the sovereigntyof Italy which form the subject of Article 15.
Except where a provision to the contrary is contained in the present Treaty, the islands situated at less than three miles from the Asiatic coast remain under Turkish sovereignty.
Kastelorizo and the Dodecanese
The reference to the subject of the sovereignty of the islands that were under Italian sovereignty (Article 15) also contains a clear reference to the island that the Turks are eyeing as much as anything else due to the EEZ, namely Kastellorizo. The worst thing for Turkey is that, just like in the articles I cited above, with article 15 it expressly renounces any sovereign right over the islands and islets of the Dodecanese and Kastelorizo.
ARTICLE 15.
Turkey renounces in favour of Italy all rights and title over the following islands: Stampalia (Astrapalia), Rhodes (Rhodos), Calki (Kharki), Scarpanto, Casos (Casso), Piscopis (Tilos), Misiros (Nisyros), Calimnos (Kalymnos), Leros, Patmos, Lipsos (Lipso), Simi (Symi), and Cos (Kos), which are now occupied by Italy, and the islets dependent thereon, and also over the island of Castellorizzo.
ARTICLE I6.
Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.
Thus, with the Peace Treaty of February 10, 1947, the annexation of the 14 islands of the Dodecanese (those whose sovereignty Turkey renounced with the Treaty of Lausanne), as well as the "adjacent islets", are granted to Greece.
ΣÏνθήκη ÏÎ·Ï ÎÏζάννηÏ: Î ÏÏ Î· ΤοÏÏκία ÏαÏαδίδεÏαι ÏÏο διεθνÎÏ Î´Î¯ÎºÎ±Î¹Î¿ και δεν δικαιοÏÏαι καμμία αÏαίÏηÏη - Î ÏήÏη
Î¤Î¿Ï Î±Î½Î±Î³Î½ÏÏÏη Î¼Î±Ï ÎδÏÏÏÎα ΣακκάÏÎ¿Ï ÎαÏά καιÏοÏÏ ÎÏοÏμε ακοÏÏει Ïα ÎÎΠνα αναÏÎÏονÏαι ÏÏη ÏÏνθήκη ÏÎ·Ï ÎÏÎ¶Î¬Î½Î½Î·Ï ÎºÎ±Î¹ Ïα ÏÏα ÏÏοβλÎÏει για Ïην Îλλάδα και Ïην ΤοÏÏκία, αλλά και Ïάλι Ïε ÏολλοÏÏ ÎÏει...www.ptisidiastima.com
What the Turkish government is using now as pretext,saying that the islands' sovereignty is up for debate is this:
ARTICLE 13.
With a view to ensuring the maintenance of peace, the Greek Government undertakes to observe the following restrictions in the islands of Mytilene, Chios, Samos and Nikaria:
(I) No naval base and no fortification will be established in the said islands.
(2) Greek military aircraft will be forbidden to fly over the territory of the Anatolian coast. Reciprocally, the Turkish Government will forbid their military aircraft to fly over the said islands.
(3) The Greek military forces in the said islands will be limited to the normal contingent called up for military service, which can be trained on the spot, as well as to a force of gendarmerie and police in proportion to the force of gendarmerie and police existing in the whole of the Greek territory.
However the Montreaux Convention 1936 says:
Militarisation of Greek islands
The Convention annulled the previous Lausanne Treaty on the Straits, including the demilitarization of the Greek islands of Lemnos and Samothrace. Greece's right to militarise them was recognized by Turkey, in accordance with the letter sent to the Greek Prime Minister on 6 May 1936 by the Turkish Ambassador in Athens, Ruşen Eşref, upon instructions from his government. The Turkish government reiterated this position when the Turkish Minister for Foreign Affairs, Rüştu Aras, in his address to the Turkish National Assembly on the occasion of the ratification of the Montreux Treaty, unreservedly recognized Greece's legal right to deploy troops on Lemnos and Samothrace with the following statement: "The provisions pertaining to the islands of Limnos and Samothrace, which belong to our neighbor and friendly country Greece and were demilitarized in application of the 1923 Lausanne Treaty, were also abolished by the new Montreux Treaty, which gives us great pleasure".[47]
You can see now,how revisitionist and aggressive is the policy Turkey follows under the AKP party and its political partner,the MHP.
@Hydration @Ghostkiller @Beast @vi-va @Avicenna @PakAlp @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakFactor @Gomig-21 @Ramses Akhenaten Ahmose @QWECXZ @HAIDER @Saddam Hussein @SalarHaqq @_NOBODY_ @BON PLAN @zartosht @Dariush the Great @MH.Yang @_Nabil_ @Bengal71 @SQ8 @RescueRanger @Zarvan @aziqbal @Akritas @A.P. Richelieu @Super Falcon
I don’t think the issue lies so much in legality per treaties carried out under different geopolitical circumstances as much as it does lie within Turks looks to advance their interests.There was a nice article from Ptisi today,about why the Turkish government has absolutely no legal right on their claims and the whole fuss they have been making about the islands is ridiculous.
Specifically,from the Treaty of Lausanne:
ARTICLE 25.
Turkey undertakes to recognise the full force of the Treaties of Peace and additional Conventions concluded by the other Contracting Powers with the Powers who fought on the side of Turkey, and to recognise whatever dispositions have been or may be made concerning the territories of the former German Empire, of Austria, of Hungary and of Bulgaria, and to recognise the new States within their frontiers as there laid down.
ARTICLE 26.
Turkey hereby recognises and accepts the frontiers of Germany, Austria, Bulgaria, Greece, Hungary, Poland, Roumania, the Serb-Croat-Slovene State and the Czechoslovak State, as these frontiers have been or may be determined by the Treaties referred to in Article 25 or by any supplementary conventions.
ARTICLE 27.
No power or jurisdiction in political, legislative or administrative matters shall be exercised outside Turkish territory by the Turkish Government or authorities, for any reason whatsoever, over the nationals of a territory placed under the sovereignty or protectorate of the other Powers signatory of the present Treaty, or over the nationals of a territory detached from Turkey.
It is understood that the spiritual attributions of the Moslem religious authorities are in no way infringed.
The article continues:
The allies having secured the sovereignty of the British over the occupied Cyprus and the Italians over the occupied Dodecanese (with the simultaneous renunciation by the Turks of all rights over these islands as well as everything outside the territory of Turkey) also ratify with the Treaty of Lausanne ( following the decisions of the London conference in 1914) the sovereignty of Greece over the rest of the Northern Mediterranean.
And rightly so, the text validates the sovereignty of Greece in this way, because we must not forget that the Eastern Mediterranean included, apart from the innumerable islands of the Aegean, the other great territorial acquisition of Greece, namely Crete, and the adjacent islands and islets , Gavdos etc. As early as December 1, 1913, Crete was officially incorporated into the Greek state. Exactly one month earlier (November 1, 1913), Sultan Mehmet V had relinquished all right of suzerainty over the big island. So the allies rightly refer to Greece as having sovereignty over the entire Southern Mediterranean, including Crete and all the Aegean islands.
ARTICLE 12.
The decision taken on the 13th February, 1914, by the Conference of London, in virtue of Articles 5 of the Treaty of London of the 17th-30th May, 1913, and 15 of the Treaty of Athens of the 1st-14th November, 1913, which decision was communicated to the Greek Government on the 13th February, 1914, regarding the sovereignty of Greece over the islands of the Eastern Mediterranean, other than the islands of Imbros, Tenedos and Rabbit Islands, particularly the islands of Lemnos, Samothrace, Mytilene, Chios, Samos and Nikaria, is confirmed, subject to the provisions of the present Treaty respecting the islands placed under the sovereigntyof Italy which form the subject of Article 15.
Except where a provision to the contrary is contained in the present Treaty, the islands situated at less than three miles from the Asiatic coast remain under Turkish sovereignty.
Kastelorizo and the Dodecanese
The reference to the subject of the sovereignty of the islands that were under Italian sovereignty (Article 15) also contains a clear reference to the island that the Turks are eyeing as much as anything else due to the EEZ, namely Kastellorizo. The worst thing for Turkey is that, just like in the articles I cited above, with article 15 it expressly renounces any sovereign right over the islands and islets of the Dodecanese and Kastelorizo.
ARTICLE 15.
Turkey renounces in favour of Italy all rights and title over the following islands: Stampalia (Astrapalia), Rhodes (Rhodos), Calki (Kharki), Scarpanto, Casos (Casso), Piscopis (Tilos), Misiros (Nisyros), Calimnos (Kalymnos), Leros, Patmos, Lipsos (Lipso), Simi (Symi), and Cos (Kos), which are now occupied by Italy, and the islets dependent thereon, and also over the island of Castellorizzo.
ARTICLE I6.
Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.
Thus, with the Peace Treaty of February 10, 1947, the annexation of the 14 islands of the Dodecanese (those whose sovereignty Turkey renounced with the Treaty of Lausanne), as well as the "adjacent islets", are granted to Greece.
ΣÏνθήκη ÏÎ·Ï ÎÏζάννηÏ: Î ÏÏ Î· ΤοÏÏκία ÏαÏαδίδεÏαι ÏÏο διεθνÎÏ Î´Î¯ÎºÎ±Î¹Î¿ και δεν δικαιοÏÏαι καμμία αÏαίÏηÏη - Î ÏήÏη
Î¤Î¿Ï Î±Î½Î±Î³Î½ÏÏÏη Î¼Î±Ï ÎδÏÏÏÎα ΣακκάÏÎ¿Ï ÎαÏά καιÏοÏÏ ÎÏοÏμε ακοÏÏει Ïα ÎÎΠνα αναÏÎÏονÏαι ÏÏη ÏÏνθήκη ÏÎ·Ï ÎÏÎ¶Î¬Î½Î½Î·Ï ÎºÎ±Î¹ Ïα ÏÏα ÏÏοβλÎÏει για Ïην Îλλάδα και Ïην ΤοÏÏκία, αλλά και Ïάλι Ïε ÏολλοÏÏ ÎÏει...
What the Turkish government is using now as pretext,saying that the islands' sovereignty is up for debate is this:
ARTICLE 13.
With a view to ensuring the maintenance of peace, the Greek Government undertakes to observe the following restrictions in the islands of Mytilene, Chios, Samos and Nikaria:
(I) No naval base and no fortification will be established in the said islands.
(2) Greek military aircraft will be forbidden to fly over the territory of the Anatolian coast. Reciprocally, the Turkish Government will forbid their military aircraft to fly over the said islands.
(3) The Greek military forces in the said islands will be limited to the normal contingent called up for military service, which can be trained on the spot, as well as to a force of gendarmerie and police in proportion to the force of gendarmerie and police existing in the whole of the Greek territory.
However the Montreaux Convention 1936 says:
Militarisation of Greek islands
The Convention annulled the previous Lausanne Treaty on the Straits, including the demilitarization of the Greek islands of Lemnos and Samothrace. Greece's right to militarise them was recognized by Turkey, in accordance with the letter sent to the Greek Prime Minister on 6 May 1936 by the Turkish Ambassador in Athens, Ruşen Eşref, upon instructions from his government. The Turkish government reiterated this position when the Turkish Minister for Foreign Affairs, Rüştu Aras, in his address to the Turkish National Assembly on the occasion of the ratification of the Montreux Treaty, unreservedly recognized Greece's legal right to deploy troops on Lemnos and Samothrace with the following statement: "The provisions pertaining to the islands of Limnos and Samothrace, which belong to our neighbor and friendly country Greece and were demilitarized in application of the 1923 Lausanne Treaty, were also abolished by the new Montreux Treaty, which gives us great pleasure".[47]
You can see now,how revisitionist and aggressive is the policy Turkey follows under the AKP party and its political partner,the MHP.
@Hydration @Ghostkiller @Beast @vi-va @Avicenna @PakAlp @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakFactor @Gomig-21 @Ramses Akhenaten Ahmose @QWECXZ @HAIDER @Saddam Hussein @SalarHaqq @_NOBODY_ @BON PLAN @zartosht @Dariush the Great @MH.Yang @_Nabil_ @Bengal71 @SQ8 @RescueRanger @Zarvan @aziqbal @Akritas @A.P. Richelieu @Super Falcon
Well yeah,it's a pretext. But like @A.P. Richelieu showed,in the end we've got the right to defend our islands and we can't have Erdogan and Akar telling us what to do and threaten us if we don't do what they want.
That they can blame on geopolitical situation of that time and justify it as Turk territory.
Checking exams
www.thenationalherald.com
