Turkish Aviation Programs

[era_shield]

Something new
Maybe 235?

Looks like a Star SAFIRE 380-HLD:

Rear view of the 380-HD, couldn't find one of the HLD:

 

[TheMightyBender]

AFAIK Hurkus C will carry external gun pods (1x20 mm, 1x12.7 mm). Does anyone know the brand, manufacturer and properties of these guns?

 

[Random111]

AFAIK Hurkus C will carry external gun pods (1x20 mm, 1x12.7 mm). Does anyone know the brand, manufacturer and properties of these guns?

Afaik the set-up of Hurkus is still not known. 20mm we don't have any present, for 12.7 FN herstal and Roketsan worked together to create a specific hybrid pod.

But I highly doubt we will use 12.7-20mm and I think it's stupid and highly risky. We should use Hurkus as a smart bomber/slow flying CAS with as much guided munitions as possible. I.e, Cirit/UMTAS/MK82 bombs.

Hurkus flying over (and over) to pick out those Dhsk that F-16s missed. That's how i envisioned Hurkus.

 

[TheMightyBender]

Afaik the set-up of Hurkus is still not known. 20mm we don't have any present, for 12.7 FN herstal and Roketsan worked together to create a specific hybrid pod.

But I highly doubt we will use 12.7-20mm and I think it's stupid and highly risky. We should use Hurkus as a smart bomber/slow flying CAS with as much guided munitions as possible. I.e, Cirit/UMTAS/MK82 bombs.

Hurkus flying over (and over) to pick out those Dhsk that F-16s missed. That's how i envisioned Hurkus.

You are right. However one of the main aims of Hurkus C was to have a low operating cost. Taking out an easy target (that could have been eliminated with a gun rather easily) with a missile will be very costly.

 

[OguzSenturk]

I don't really understand why whould we put gun pods on Hürkuş. External gun pods are very effective against the groups who doesn't have MANPADS. Right now bot KCK(PKK/YPG) and IS have MANPADS. And every single country has MANPADS as well. Why would we risk our birds instead of using them as fast CAS missile platforms who could assist friendly ground troops above MANPADS range..

 

[Random111]

You are right. However one of the main aims of Hurkus C was to have a low operating cost. Taking out an easy target (that could have been eliminated with a gun rather easily) with a missile will be very costly.

I think you're mixing helicopter cas (20mm) with f16 cas (guided bombs). Hurkus will use Cirit-Umtas and maybe mk81/82 (the smaller ones). In the past year the targets have shrunk to mere dozens, sometimes as low as 7 at a time. Instead of flying out an F16 you can send a Hurkus.

It will still be a cost saver if you want to look at finances. Bombs are cheap, esp if they're mass produced, it's the flying hours that cost a lot.

 

[Seyfullah]

https://twitter.com/x/status/833985250376155136

 

[TheMightyBender]

I think you're mixing helicopter cas (20mm) with f16 cas (guided bombs). Hurkus will use Cirit-Umtas and maybe mk81/82 (the smaller ones). In the past year the targets have shrunk to mere dozens, sometimes as low as 7 at a time. Instead of flying out an F16 you can send a Hurkus.

It will still be a cost saver if you want to look at finances. Bombs are cheap, esp if they're mass produced, it's the flying hours that cost a lot.

I don't really understand why whould we put gun pods on Hürkuş. External gun pods are very effective against the groups who doesn't have MANPADS. Right now bot KCK(PKK/YPG) and IS have MANPADS. And every single country has MANPADS as well. Why would we risk our birds instead of using them as fast CAS missile platforms who could assist friendly ground troops above MANPADS range..

Afaik the set-up of Hurkus is still not known. 20mm we don't have any present, for 12.7 FN herstal and Roketsan worked together to create a specific hybrid pod.

But I highly doubt we will use 12.7-20mm and I think it's stupid and highly risky. We should use Hurkus as a smart bomber/slow flying CAS with as much guided munitions as possible. I.e, Cirit/UMTAS/MK82 bombs.

Hurkus flying over (and over) to pick out those Dhsk that F-16s missed. That's how i envisioned Hurkus.

I don't know what you guys are talking about when you say a gun is useless in CAS, but I am talking about Turkish version of A-10 warthog. Arguably the most effective CAS aircraft to date. And we all know that the A-10 is just a flying GAU-8 Avenger 30 mm gun.

 

[OguzSenturk]

I don't see any advantage to put 20mm gun on Hürkuş, unfortunately. Rotary-wing aircrafts are the true aircrafts to be a gunship. Really no need to risk the pilots of the fixed-wings aircrafts. I think the perfect solution for us would be this kind of unmanned rotary-wing aircraft, it could be cheap/less risky solution for gun-based CAS supports, without risking any pilot and limited-number expensive armament;

 

[TheMightyBender]

I don't see any advantage to put 20mm gun on Hürkuş, unfortunately. Rotary-wing aircrafts are the true aircrafts to be a gunship. Really no need to risk the pilots of the fixed-wings aircrafts.

You make it sound like rotary wing aircraft are safer than fixed wings. While in reality rotary wings are only preferred due to their low speed and hover capability. A fixed wing is more likely to survive a MANPAD for example.

 

[Seyfullah]

https://twitter.com/x/status/834774544053305344

 

[OguzSenturk]

You make it sound like rotary wing aircraft are safer than fixed wings.

Nope. How can you even reach this point? lol

If you want to use 20mm gun against the targets in the cities/streets, and if use use fixed-wings aircrafts for this mission, you will miss the target after one pass above it due to angle will be changed so fast. Will you find your target again? Well, it is up to how lucky you are!

20mm guns are meant to be useful on rotatory-wings aircrafts against the enemy targets in the streets, the reason is so obvious, you can track the enemy target as long as you want.

About safety, did i claim anything like "rotatory wings are safer than fixed-wings with 20mm gun"? The answer is, you know, no. That is why i posted this;

The gun turret without any pilots so no pilost-lose risk I mean come on, it was so obvious

 

[TheMightyBender]

Nope. How can you even reach this point? lol

Really no need to risk the pilots of the fixed-wings aircrafts.

The sentence above could mean only one of these two:
1- It is okay to risk the pilots of rotary wings. Just make sure you don't risk the pilots of the fixed wings.
2- Rotary wings are safe anyways, just make sure you don't risk the pilots of the fixed wings.

You tell me which one you meant.

Regarding the unmanned aircraft:
If it was up to me, I would make everything unmanned brother. I wouldn't even send soldiers on the ground, instead I would send droids like in star wars. I would want to have unmanned transports, even unmanned medics and cooks.
But unfortunately most of these are not feasible. Even if they are feasible they end up being useless.

The problem with the picture you showed would be vibration due to recoil. Because the aircraft is too small for such a turret. But even if we assume the aircraft is large and powerful, there is still the problem of connection.
There would be a lag of a couple of seconds between the drone and the operator. This means that by the time the command to shoot has arrived to the drone the target will have moved some meters away.
The other alternative would be to make the drone autonomous but we can all imagine how horrible that would be. It is extremely difficult to teach the drone to identify enemies and shoot them down. It would end up killing our own.

Of course connection is just one of the problems.

 

[OguzSenturk]

So you didnt see this

And this

I think the perfect solution for us would be this kind of unmanned rotary-wing aircraft

Are you not really capable to see, or is that a part of the joke?

 

[TheMightyBender]

So you didnt see this

And this


Are you not really capable to see, or is that a part of the joke?

There is no need to insult. I am not blind, I am perfectly capable of seeing.

Basically you said B is better than A, but C is "the perfect solution". I pointed out that B is not better than A. II said nothing about C.

Also please read my post again, I was editing my answer while you responded.

Note: A = fixed wing
B = rotary wing
C = unmanned roary wing