Turkish Air Force (HVKK)

[LegionnairE]

The F-35 cannot supercruise. And nobody is suggesting we use the EJ200 - we would be using the EJ230, which has higher thrust and thust vectoring. Read. You don't know what you're talking about, as usual.

F35 can supercruise... it just can't maintain it for too long, it'd be nicer if it did but I'll take what I can get
F135 wasn't initially developed for supercruise, that'll almost certainly change in the future variants.

as of now I don't have any credible data on EJ230... I don't follow defense news as closely as I used to... but I don't think the thrust may have changed that dramatically from the original EJ200

Here's the thing, F35 already has a much longer range than F16. To build an air superiority craft that could supplement F35 you'd need to be able to store much more fuel, therefore you'd need a bigger airframe therefore you'd need bigger engines so it doesn't suck.

So unless they can scale up the EJ200 for us, we can't make anything other than a glorified multi-role fighter with them.
Yeah thrust vectoring is a neat little feature but it doesn't solve our problem. We need bigger engines.

and F135 is too big for a twin engine fighter layout... as I said it'd become more of a B1 or B2 rather than an F22.

 

[era_shield]

F35 can supercruise... it just can't maintain it for too long, it'd be nicer if it did but I'll take what I can get
F135 wasn't initially developed for supercruise, that'll almost certainly change in the future variants.

as of now I don't have any credible data on EJ230... I don't follow defense news as closely as I used to... but I don't think the thrust may have changed that dramatically from the original EJ200

Here's the thing, F35 already has a much longer range than F16. To build an air superiority craft that could supplement F35 you'd need to be able to store much more fuel, therefore you'd need a bigger airframe therefore you'd need bigger engines so it doesn't suck.

So unless they can scale up the EJ200 for us, we can't make anything other than a glorified multi-role fighter with them.
Yeah thrust vectoring is a neat little feature but it doesn't solve our problem. We need bigger engines.

and F135 is too big for a twin engine fighter layout... as I said it'd become more of a B1 or B2 rather than an F22.

The F-35 can't supercruise - what they claim as "supercruise dash" is where it reaches top speed using afterburner then turns it off and flies for a short period at roughly Mach 1.2 using that built up thrust. It is not supercruise and it's almost useless in a combat situation. In combat, the F-35 would normally operate on sustained military thrust, which means no supercruise. It's not even worth the fuel for that 0.2 Mach increase for a short period. The F-22 supercruises at Mach 1.8.

A good stealthy F-16 replacement with enough combat radius could be designed using 2xEJ230. No point in standing around waiting for the perfect engine that may or may not come. Technology is changing very quickly these days. Turkey has to get in the game ASAP and increase its design expertise in every area it possibly can.

 

[-SINAN-]

Guys,i suggest that you look into KAI KF-X program. It gives a nice heads-up for our program.

KAI KF-X - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Kamil_baku]

Supercruise does produce heat , a lot of heat actually even thought it still produce less infrared signature compared to AB.
Meteor BVR AA missile has a ramjet and more than Mach 5 speed.
Supercruise means agility or.... ?

Turkey has any plan to develop ramjet for Air to Air missiles?

F35 can supercruise... it just can't maintain it for too long, it'd be nicer if it did but I'll take what I can get
F135 wasn't initially developed for supercruise, that'll almost certainly change in the future variants.

as of now I don't have any credible data on EJ230... I don't follow defense news as closely as I used to... but I don't think the thrust may have changed that dramatically from the original EJ200

Here's the thing, F35 already has a much longer range than F16. To build an air superiority craft that could supplement F35 you'd need to be able to store much more fuel, therefore you'd need a bigger airframe therefore you'd need bigger engines so it doesn't suck.

So unless they can scale up the EJ200 for us, we can't make anything other than a glorified multi-role fighter with them.
Yeah thrust vectoring is a neat little feature but it doesn't solve our problem. We need bigger engines.

and F135 is too big for a twin engine fighter layout... as I said it'd become more of a B1 or B2 rather than an F22.

Do you really believe that USA will supply you with f135 engine to develop a bomber? How many bomber are you planning to purchase which each of them will cost billions of dollars... You dont want to be Soviet Union who destroyed itself for spending too much for army technology.. TUrkey in a right way. By having Ej230, they will also be able to sell parts to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait which use same engines.. Also, They will get TOT which is the latest technology and best weight to Thurst ratio which any Air superity aircraft needs...

 

[-SINAN-]

Turkey will get TOT which is the latest technology and best weight to Thurst ratio which any Air superity aircraft needs...

Mate, maybe some parts would be produced in Turkey like KaleAero producing parts for F-135 engine but no-one will share it's engine technology it's impossible.

Another thing is you know Alpaviation is producing TI IBR for F-135, right ?

When you look at Alpaviation's capabilities, there is nothing about metallurgy, casting, forging. What they do on the project is.

Fully Integrated Titanium Machining & Special Process House

Alp Aviation is a fully integrated titanium machining & special process house, with strong experience in machining & processing titanium wrought, forgings and castings.In order to provide finished titanium products and assemblies 4 & 5 axes precision machining equipment, in-house special processes and final acceptance tests are utilized.

·Cleaning
·Blue Etching
·Metal-Metal bonding
·Shot Peening
·Anodizing
·FPI (Fluorescent Penetrant Inspection)
·ECI (Eddy Current Inspection)

You get what i mean ? They know nothing about the metallurgy and casting of the IBRs, they just do cutting, thermal coating, etc.. finishing process.

 

[LegionnairE]

The F-35 can't supercruise - what they claim as "supercruise dash" is where it reaches top speed using afterburner then turns it off and flies for a short period at roughly Mach 1.2 using that built up thrust. It is not supercruise and it's almost useless in a combat situation. In combat, the F-35 would normally operate on sustained military thrust, which means no supercruise. It's not even worth the fuel for that 0.2 Mach increase for a short period. The F-22 supercruises at Mach 1.8.

A good stealthy F-16 replacement with enough combat radius could be designed using 2xEJ230. No point in standing around waiting for the perfect engine that may or may not come. Technology is changing very quickly these days. Turkey has to get in the game ASAP and increase its design expertise in every area it possibly can.

F35 and TFX both being multi-role fighters, both made to replace F16, what are we going to do with two planes that essentially do the same thing? Hellenic airforce made the same mistake in investing in both F16 and Mirage 2000s it only complicates things, makes you a less efficient air force. And that's the best case scenario, that's assuming we can manage to make a slightly better plane than F35.

There's already a better engine that is called F119... if we were diplomatic enough we could get it, it has everything we need and even don't need... like thrust vectoring.

Do you really believe that USA will supply you with f135 engine to develop a bomber? How many bomber are you planning to purchase which each of them will cost billions of dollars... You dont want to be Soviet Union who destroyed itself for spending too much for army technology.. TUrkey in a right way. By having Ej230, they will also be able to sell parts to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait which use same engines.. Also, They will get TOT which is the latest technology and best weight to Thurst ratio which any Air superity aircraft needs...

What? do you think that an F22 like fifth generation fighter comes cheap? Which is ideally what we're trying to make. And building an aircraft that has the same engines with F35 would be beneficial to us in the long run, there would be many advantages to it.

It doesn't have to be as costly as a B2 if we decide to go down that route, since radar absorbent materials have become cheaper since then. About EJ200, having a good thrust to weight ratio isn't enough for an air superiority craft as I explained in my previous post. Unless we're aiming to make the world's first military trijet that's not gonna happen, there isn't enough thrust

 

[Exocet]

F35 and TFX both being multi-role fighters, both made to replace F16, what are we going to do with two planes that essentially do the same thing? Hellenic airforce made the same mistake in investing in both F16 and Mirage 2000s it only complicates things, makes you a less efficient air force. And that's the best case scenario, that's assuming we can manage to make a slightly better plane than F35.

There's already a better engine that is called F119... if we were diplomatic enough we could get it, it has everything we need and even don't need... like thrust vectoring.

What? do you think that an F22 like fifth generation fighter comes cheap? Which is ideally what we're trying to make. And building an aircraft that has the same engines with F35 would be beneficial to us in the long run, there would be many advantages to it.

It doesn't have to be as costly as a B2 if we decide to go down that route, since radar absorbent materials have become cheaper since then. About EJ200, having a good thrust to weight ratio isn't enough for an air superiority craft as I explained in my previous post. Unless we're aiming to make the world's first military trijet that's not gonna happen, there isn't enough thrust

Mate F-35 is bulky and slow. That is the problem.

 

[LegionnairE]

Mate F-35 is bulky and slow. That is the problem.

bro, it's not and even if it was it wouldn't matter. It doesn't need to enter any dogfights.

It's purpose is to detect before getting detected and shoot the target with an AIM 120
it is for all intents and purposes a BVR plane

We never wanted an Su35-like plane anyway, we've always worked with multi-role fighters and we know what we're getting.

 

[fox 2]

F-35 would be amazing. No doubt !
It will change the air game, we'll see.

 

[okan tekis]

so we gonna buy a fighter jet that even cannot dogfight

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

Why not F-16 Desert Eagle or F-16 V ? AESA radar, new engine, new avionics and much more or F-18 Super Hornet,
until indigenous fighter , what else it will be is ready.
The F-16V, the Newest Version of the Iconic Fighter, Takes Flight
For my opinion we will not buy as planned 100 F-35, maximum 35. 15 Navy for Levent-carrier and 20 for Airforce.

 

[fox 2]

TuRAF fully concentrated to the F-35.
I am sure we'll get the 100 F35A+ F35B.

 

[okan tekis]

 

[LegionnairE]

so we gonna buy a fighter jet that even cannot dogfight

WHAT? no!
of course It can... it just won't have to. Combat will already be over most of the time before there's even any visual contact.

Oh please, millionth time this was shared here

I am embarrassed for the guy. Designer of the F16 thinks that multi-role fighters are stupid...
it's a sad mental state

and also thinks that stealth is scam

 

[okan tekis]

but he has a POINT