Turkic speaking countries might create free trade zone

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Why didnt the muslim nations help you,did you ask them(Turkey,Iran and the Arabs)?
We should have.

At tht time.. we had only 1 university n 1 jute factory ... and 1 textile mill... with no equipment,no paper,no furniture,no stationary... nothing.... the most backward region in south asia.... Something we are proud off!

My ancestors fought for the country.. died for the country.. and bled in every war..

Most of the Muslim Countries were going through problematic times during those years with many themselves gaining their Independence !

I'm sure Turkey must have helped us !

Turkey itself was going through problems..

 

[Armstrong]

@Armstrong

Dunno if it's true, but I heard that the Turkish independence war was a great inspiration for the Muslim people under British rule in Asia.
Is this true?

Turkey was the first Nation State to emerge amongst the Muslims after winning such a hard fought & bloody conflict that naturally we felt pride that one of our own - our fellow Muslims - against extremely difficult odds were able to create a country for their own to live in with dignity & pride !

 

[kalu_miah]

I have spent some time in Turkic Central Asia, mainly Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Xinjiang. Have seen many Turkish run universities and businesses in the stan's. Ate great Turkish kebab at Turkish restaurants.

If Turkey has closer relation with Russia and SCO, I think it will be mutually good for this region. Even if EU agrees to accept Turkey, I think it will be more beneficial for Turkey to join Russia led Eurasian Union in the long term, while it remains a special trade partner of EU. And it may require switching from NATO to SCO in 2-3 decades time.

And the long term goal, according to my own "lunatic/fantasy" theory is Eurasia+:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180767-geopolitics-eurasia-region.html

 

[Armstrong]

At tht time.. we had only 1 university n 1 jute factory ... and 1 textile mill... with no equipment,no paper,no furniture,no stationary... nothing.... the most backward region in south asia.... Something we are proud off!

My ancestors fought for the country.. died for the country.. and bled in every war..

Yup thats true ! My Grandpa told me that as a Young Civil Engineer working for the Army (if it could be called that) they were ordered to write on both sides of the paper because of scarcity, to take out old papers from the archives on which text had been written with graphite pencils & to rub them & re-use them & that they didn't work in their offices or their barracks because both of them were housing Refugees owing to shortages of housing !

Turkey itself was going through problems..

Yes they were !

 

[Ahiska]

Let me tell you as someone who knows what he is talking about.

1970-1999 was never a Turkic unity or something like that because everyone hated each other in central asia uzbeks and kyrgiz fought a little war khazakstan was half russian Türkmenistan has a crazy ruler and my people were hunted down by uzbek nationalists.
And dont get me started on Turkey on that time Turkey was a paper tiger (except for greece,Syria and Cyprus) when the Central Asian nations became independant Atatürk talked that Turkey should give them a Hand but like always Turkey was weak willed and feared Russia at this time.
But times change the other Turkic nations see the importance of blood,History and language and this must be the way of the Turkic states in the future.
If the Turkic states fail to follow this way they will end up like us the Ahiska we ruled over 600 years over the Ahiska region and lived a thousand year there what happened?We were as the only ethnicy forever banned from their homeland so i hope the other Turkics wont have the same destiny like us.

 

[-SINAN-]

Let me tell you as someone who knows what he is talking about.

1970-1999 was never a Turkic unity or something like that because everyone hated each other in central asia uzbeks and kyrgiz fought a little war khazakstan was half russian Türkmenistan has a crazy ruler and my people were hunted down by uzbek nationalists.
And dont get me started on Turkey on that time Turkey was a paper tiger (except for greece,Syria and Cyprus) when the Central Asian nations became independant Atatürk talked that Turkey should give them a Hand but like always Turkey was weak willed and feared Russia at this time.
But times change the other Turkic nations see the importance of blood,History and language and this must be the way of the Turkic states in the future.
If the Turkic states fail to follow this way they will end up like us the Ahiska we ruled over 600 years over the Ahiska region and lived a thousand year there what happened?We were as the only ethnicy forever banned from their homeland so i hope the other Turkics wont have the same destiny like us.

I think you are wrong about Turkey. Turkey take the initiative and started to build relations with Turkic states at the time of Erbakan. But instead of building relations on mutual understanding and respect, Turkey acted like a older brother and looked from top to other states. Exported some bad quality products etc... Than things went sour.... Realations cooled and Russia influenced the region.

I think we can still achieve Turkic unity, but i think Turkey has to take a leading role for this and it's not possible with Erdoğan. He favors muslims more than Turks.

 

[Ahiska]

I think you are wrong about Turkey. Turkey take the initiative and started to build relations with Turkic states at the time of Erbakan. But instead of building relations on mutual understanding and respect, Turkey acted like a older brother and looked from top to other states. Exported some bad quality products etc... Than things went sour.... Realations cooled and Russia influenced the region.

I think we can still achieve Turkic unity, but i think Turkey has to take a leading role for this and it's not possible with Erdoğan. He favors muslims more than Turks.

Yeah that is/was Turkeys problem.
Atatürk said Turkey should give his hands to the other BROTHERS not to the lesser brother states we are all equal and before all Turkic states accept it there will be no real unity.
And i dont blame Erdogan for it the CHP before him was not better and believe me Kilicdaroglu is the last one to make a Turkic unity.

 

[gr8vision]

Ahiska is right - 50% of the problem was that Turkey was a paper tiger, didn't have enough economic and financial might to be able to project (nor military might, really). Today it is different. But then the Turkic world is different too - Kazakhstan, for example, has the highest per capita GDP of all Turkic nations. Turkey is second, Azerbaijan is third - and might overtake Turkey in a few years in that important economic indicator. Turkic countries, like Turkey, are also producing more of their own military - surely, mostly basic or outdated products, but still, a step in the right direction.

And like I wrote before, the creation of the Turkic Council, and other inter-Turkic organizations such as TurkPA are a great step in the right direction. EU would never admit Turkey anyways, and Arab countries are too embroiled in their own issues and problems, plus suffering from Turcophobia (as does Iran, where Persians and Kurds have Turcophobia going back centuries, easily traced in Persian poetry going back to the times of Shahnameh).

 

[xenon54 out]

Interesting.
I thought Uzbeks also used Cyrilic (spelling?).

I know Russian is huge in Uzbekistan though.

@Abii

Usbekistan uses booth kyrillic and Latin since 1997.
Uzbek language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Here are examples of latin alphabets for all Turkic laguages.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/New_Turkic_alphabets.jpg



There is also a old Turkic alphabet from 8th century but its a dead alphabet like egyptian hieroglyphs.
Old Turkic alphabet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[olcayto]

@Ahiska

You're wrong on one note.

The anatolian Turks did kept their end of the bargain. The moment Azerbaycan and Norther-Cyprus got their independence the relations between these 3 countries flourished.
Today these 3 nations have an exceptional relation.

Central-Asian Turks on the other hand jumped immediately to each others throat the moment they got independent.

 

[Wholegrain]

Let me tell you as someone who knows what he is talking about.

1970-1999 was never a Turkic unity or something like that because everyone hated each other in central asia uzbeks and kyrgiz fought a little war khazakstan was half russian Türkmenistan has a crazy ruler and my people were hunted down by uzbek nationalists.
And dont get me started on Turkey on that time Turkey was a paper tiger (except for greece,Syria and Cyprus) when the Central Asian nations became independant Atatürk talked that Turkey should give them a Hand but like always Turkey was weak willed and feared Russia at this time.
But times change the other Turkic nations see the importance of blood,History and language and this must be the way of the Turkic states in the future.
If the Turkic states fail to follow this way they will end up like us the Ahiska we ruled over 600 years over the Ahiska region and lived a thousand year there what happened?We were as the only ethnicy forever banned from their homeland so i hope the other Turkics wont have the same destiny like us.

Historically, there was no such thing as unity based on blood or language.

Timur mass murdered everyone- Arabs, Persians, Turks, Indians etc. He didn't spare the majorty Turkic Golden Horde, Chagatai Khanate or the Ottomans from his killing sprees. Or the Turkic ruled Delhi Sultanate.

The Yenisei Kirghiz Khaganate helped Tang Dynasty China defeat, destroy and obliterate the Uyghur Khaganate. The Kirghiz Khagan even claimed he was descended from the Chinese General Li Ling and therefore related to the Tang Emperors. They felt no brotherhood with the Uyghur Khaganate. In fact the Yenisei Kirghiz were described by Chinese accounts as white caucasians while the Uyghur Khaganate (not related to modern uyghurs) looked Mongoloid (like kazakh turks). The descendants of the Uyghur Khaganate are Yugur people and they look mongoloid. Go look up pictures of them. Turkic people already had both mongoloids and caucasians 1,300 years ago. Some of the Yenisei Kirghiz had black hair and black eyes while others had red hair, blond hair and colored eyes. The explanation for the black hair and eyes given by the Yenisei Kirghiz was that they had Chinese blood from Li Ling.

Li Ling was a Chinese General who defected to the Xiongnu during the Han dynasty. He married the Xiongnu Chanyu's daughter and was appointed the governor of the land where the Yenisei Kirghiz later lived.

One of the leaders of the Shatuo Turks, Shi Jingtang founded the Later Jin State and claimed descent from an ancient Chinese official (thats when he adopted the surname Shi). Many nomadic leaders when they entered China began manufacturing BS claims that they were descended from an ancient Chinese official or hero.

The Safavids claimed descent from Imam Ali (an Arab) and fought against the Ottomans.

You cannot apply modern concepts of ethnic brotherhood or enmity on the past.

I am not commenting on any present union but drawing on history would produce the exact opposite of a union.

 

[Ahiska]

Historically, there was no such thing as unity based on blood or language.

Timur mass murdered everyone- Arabs, Persians, Turks, Indians etc. He didn't spare the majorty Turkic Golden Horde, Chagatai Khanate or the Ottomans from his killing sprees. Or the Turkic ruled Delhi Sultanate.

The Yenisei Kirghiz Khaganate helped Tang Dynasty China defeat, destroy and obliterate the Uyghur Khaganate. The Kirghiz Khagan even claimed he was descended from the Chinese General Li Ling and therefore related to the Tang Emperors. They felt no brotherhood with the Uyghur Khaganate. In fact the Yenisei Kirghiz were described by Chinese accounts as white caucasians while the Uyghur Khaganate (not related to modern uyghurs) looked Mongoloid (like kazakh turks). The descendants of the Uyghur Khaganate are Yugur people and they look mongoloid. Go look up pictures of them. Turkic people already had both mongoloids and caucasians 1,300 years ago. Some of the Yenisei Kirghiz had black hair and black eyes while others had red hair, blond hair and colored eyes. The explanation for the black hair and eyes given by the Yenisei Kirghiz was that they had Chinese blood from Li Ling.

Li Ling was a Chinese General who defected to the Xiongnu during the Han dynasty. He married the Xiongnu Chanyu's daughter and was appointed the governor of the land where the Yenisei Kirghiz later lived.

One of the leaders of the Shatuo Turks, Shi Jingtang founded the Later Jin State and claimed descent from an ancient Chinese official (thats when he adopted the surname Shi). Many nomadic leaders when they entered China began manufacturing BS claims that they were descended from an ancient Chinese official or hero.

The Safavids claimed descent from Imam Ali (an Arab) and fought against the Ottomans.

You cannot apply modern concepts of ethnic brotherhood or enmity on the past.

I am not commenting on any present union but drawing on history would produce the exact opposite of a union.

You are right only the Gökturks could unite all of the Turkics but i said the times change they finaly see how important blood,History and language are now.
In the past Turkic empires fell because Turkics killed each other but this is slowly changing.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

@Armstrong my facts about jute mill etc are also wrong... we had around 16 small cotton factories (and no jute mill or textile mill) against 857 cotton mills in india... not counting thousands of other factories etc..

A good paper from 2007:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...9oHwDA&usg=AFQjCNG7cVj1ACikJKoGIEQGtPcOSb-3Dg

 

[TheThreePashas]

@Ahiska , what's it like in Kazakistan in terms of people's view of Turkey? I'm sure people are slightly disappointed on the amount we're able to help out but I mean politically.


For example, I personally refer to Kazaks as Turkish. Yes, I don't believe in removing the Kazak identity, by all means, in a sense you guys are more Turkish than us. Does this offend Kazaks though? Would initiatives to, lets say, make the alphabets more compatible be viewed negatively? Would a mutual defense agreement that created a Turkish military base in Kazakistan be viewed as Turkish "imperialism"?

Answers to all of these would be appreciated. I don't get a chance to talk to Central Asian Turks very often.

 

[Ahiska]

@Ahiska , what's it like in Kazakistan in terms of people's view of Turkey? I'm sure people are slightly disappointed on the amount we're able to help out but I mean politically.


For example, I personally refer to Kazaks as Turkish. Yes, I don't believe in removing the Kazak identity, by all means, in a sense you guys are more Turkish than us. Does this offend Kazaks though? Would initiatives to, lets say, make the alphabets more compatible be viewed negatively? Would a mutual defense agreement that created a Turkish military base in Kazakistan be viewed as Turkish "imperialism"?

Answers to all of these would be appreciated. I don't get a chance to talk to Central Asian Turks very often.

I m not Khazak im Ahiska Turkish but i still can answer some of your questions.
Generaly Khazaks have a pretty neutral look to Turkey because of the soviet times and the big russian population.
But they accept themselves and us as brothers.
And with the alphabet in Khazakstan only 65-70% can even speak/write Khazak so it is even a problem to let them learn khazak but to make the alphabet more compatible would be too much of work for the khazak authorities and people.
With the military base i can tell you if it would be a Turkish base under the name Turkic alliance or something like that not but a normal Turkish military base would not be liked by most.
The most simple reason is we are more original and our identity is older then yours that is what khazak people think about Turks most of the time they think why should they be the most influental of the Turkics when khazaks/uzbeks/Türkmens and Kyrgiz are much more "pure".