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Turkic speaking countries might create free trade zone

My friend thats what happens in a Theocracy !

Pakistan is in deep sh*t right now because of a plethora of reasons but in the '50s, the '60s & even the '70s we were a model State with even the South Koreans coming to Pakistan to study our economic model in the '50s & then they adopted our 5 year plan to propel their country forward !

Right now we're in a deep...deep mess because of a lot of reasons one of which is Afghanistan & the fact that that country has gone through 3 decades of war & we have gone through the same by extension !

Because that war has a Religious Context to it, it has given birth to Religious Extremism of the highest order otherwise we were never Secular but we were just fine til the '70s - When this mess started !

Turkey is also not a full secular state, the is a religion ministry, but there is no religion in Policy and Education.
I dont say that we are perfect or something we have also our problems but at least there is a clear line between religion and policy, this ist preventing a hijacking from clerics so everbody can do its business.
 
Turkey is also not a full secular state, the is a religion ministry, but there is no religion in Policy and Education.
I dont say that we are perfect or something we have also our problems but at least there is a clear line between religion and policy, this ist preventing a hijacking from clerics so everbody can do its business.

Kardes, the difference between Turkey & Pakistan is that Ataturk lived to see his dream realized whereas in case of Pakistan - the man who had provided the ideological bearings for Pakistan & ignited the Muslims of India to demand a separate Homeland of their own - Dr. Muhammad Iqbal - the National Poet-Philosopher of Pakistan - died nearly 10 years before Pakistan was achieved & his parting hurt the Pakistan Movement terribly !

And then as if things couldn't get worst ! The man whom nearly 200 million Pakistanis affectionately call as 'Quaid-e-Azam - the Great Leader' & 'Bab-e-Qaum - the Father of the Nation' Muhammad Ali Jinnah - was suffering from tuberculosis for years throughout the Pakistan Movement but hid it out of fear of his degenerating health being used to stall the Pakistan Movement by Pakistan's opponents ! He died a year after the country was created in 1948 after having seen his dream of Pakistan realized & when it was discovered that he had been suffering with tuberculosis, his opponent said 'If only we knew that Jinnah was suffering from tuberculosis....we would've delayed Pakistan by another year & without him there would be no Pakistan'.

Unfortunately the Father of Our Nation, Jinnah, never had the time to write a constitution for Pakistan because when the country was created it was economically & militarily crippled beyond repair - We had no funds & we had no Army & the Opponents of Pakistan used to jeer - 'that this madness (Pakistan) would end in a matter of months & they'd come crawling back to India begging to be reintegrated'. On top of that millions of refugees from India poured into Pakistan & Jinnah saw their rehabilitation, hundreds of thousands of refugees were butchered along the way with thousands of women raped & then killed ! Whole trains were to come from India into Pakistan on which not a single Muslim remained alive.

He had to deal with that & at the same time he had to stop the enraged Muslims who were killing Hindus & Sikhs in revenge & anger for what they had to done to Muslims.

In addition to that he also oversaw Pakistan's first war with India in 1948 (a few months before his death) where the British Generals we had employed because we had not Muslim Officers to command them refused to follow orders & still with that rag-tag Army, some Tribals & a lot of Muslim Volunteers we managed to capture 37% of Kashmir while India captured another 43% & the remainder belonging to the Chinese.

So you can imagine it was hell & he was dealing with problems beyond our capacity !

He then died a few months after that & we've suffered ever since ! He & Iqbal used to talk about how power would be taken back from the Religious Clerics who go about on their self-styled divine mission but instead exercised through the proper Parliament of a Democratic State where we'd attempt to reform & reinterpret Islam in the light of Modernity so that we can give to the world viable & workable examples of Islamic Jurisprudence, Social Justice, Equality of Man & Islamic Socialism !

Unfortunately, as I said earlier, none of that......NONE of that happened ! Because his successors were nothing more than power hungry politicians & generals who were sold out to the highest bidder or whose sole ambition in life was rip-off the common Pakistani to build their own Palaces & Feudal Estates.
 
@Armstrong

Thats indeed a sad history for Pakistan, i hope the best for you and wish that Pakistan someday will have a propper policy and education system so the country can develop itself.
 
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Kardes, the difference between Turkey & Pakistan is that Ataturk lived to see his dream realized whereas in case of Pakistan - the man who had provided the ideological bearings for Pakistan & ignited the Muslims of India to demand a separate Homeland of their own - Dr. Muhammad Iqbal - the National Poet-Philosopher of Pakistan - died nearly 10 years before Pakistan was achieved & his parting hurt the Pakistan Movement terribly !

And then as if things couldn't get worst ! The man whom nearly 200 million Pakistanis affectionately call as 'Quaid-e-Azam - the Great Leader' & 'Bab-e-Qaum - the Father of the Nation' Muhammad Ali Jinnah - was suffering from tuberculosis for years throughout the Pakistan Movement but hid it out of fear of his degenerating health being used to stall the Pakistan Movement by Pakistan's opponents ! He died a year after the country was created in 1948 after having seen his dream of Pakistan realized & when it was discovered that he had been suffering with tuberculosis, his opponent said 'If only we knew that Jinnah was suffering from tuberculosis....we would've delayed Pakistan by another year & without him there would be no Pakistan'.

Unfortunately the Father of Our Nation, Jinnah, never had the time to write a constitution for Pakistan because when the country was created it was economically & militarily crippled beyond repair - We had no funds & we had no Army & the Opponents of Pakistan used to jeer - 'that this madness (Pakistan) would end in a matter of months & they'd come crawling back to India begging to be reintegrated'. On top of that millions of refugees from India poured into Pakistan & Jinnah saw their rehabilitation, hundreds of thousands of refugees were butchered along the way with thousands of women raped & then killed ! Whole trains were to come from India into Pakistan on which not a single Muslim remained alive.

He had to deal with that & at the same time he had to stop the enraged Muslims who were killing Hindus & Sikhs in revenge & anger for what they had to done to Muslims.

In addition to that he also oversaw Pakistan's first war with India in 1948 (a few months before his death) where the British Generals we had employed because we had not Muslim Officers to command them refused to follow orders & still with that rag-tag Army, some Tribals & a lot of Muslim Volunteers we managed to capture 37% of Kashmir while India captured another 43% & the remainder belonging to the Chinese.

So you can imagine it was hell & he was dealing with problems beyond our capacity !

He then died a few months after that & we've suffered ever since ! He & Iqbal used to talk about how power would be taken back from the Religious Clerics who go about on their self-styled divine mission but instead exercised through the proper Parliament of a Democratic State where we'd attempt to reform & reinterpret Islam in the light of Modernity so that we can give to the world viable & workable examples of Islamic Jurisprudence, Social Justice, Equality of Man & Islamic Socialism !

Unfortunately, as I said earlier, none of that......NONE of that happened ! Because his successors were nothing more than power hungry politicians & generals who were sold out to the highest bidder or whose sole ambition in life was rip-off the common Pakistani to build their own Palaces & Feudal Estates.

If they had been alive today.... they would have been ashamed of what we have done to this sacred land...

P.S: Fuk you... your post.. brought tears to my eyes.
 
I am sorry guys but truth is: We (Anatolian Turks) have to learn Russian.If we learn it,be sure all of Turkic people can understand each other very well...Ben iki Kırgız'ın kırgızca anlaşamadıkları için ve kendilerini rusça çok daha iyi ifade edebildikleri için anadilleri yerine rusçayı tercih ettiklerine defalarca şahit oldum,kusura bakmayın,acı ama gerçek,80 yıllık Sovyet emperyalizminin meyveleri bunlar...ve son bir şey daha Rusya onların gözünde hala büyük abi,bizim gözümüzdeki ABD yani.
 
Kardes, the difference between Turkey & Pakistan is that Ataturk lived to see his dream realized whereas in case of Pakistan - the man who had provided the ideological bearings for Pakistan & ignited the Muslims of India to demand a separate Homeland of their own - Dr. Muhammad Iqbal - the National Poet-Philosopher of Pakistan - died nearly 10 years before Pakistan was achieved & his parting hurt the Pakistan Movement terribly !

And then as if things couldn't get worst ! The man whom nearly 200 million Pakistanis affectionately call as 'Quaid-e-Azam - the Great Leader' & 'Bab-e-Qaum - the Father of the Nation' Muhammad Ali Jinnah - was suffering from tuberculosis for years throughout the Pakistan Movement but hid it out of fear of his degenerating health being used to stall the Pakistan Movement by Pakistan's opponents ! He died a year after the country was created in 1948 after having seen his dream of Pakistan realized & when it was discovered that he had been suffering with tuberculosis, his opponent said 'If only we knew that Jinnah was suffering from tuberculosis....we would've delayed Pakistan by another year & without him there would be no Pakistan'.

Unfortunately the Father of Our Nation, Jinnah, never had the time to write a constitution for Pakistan because when the country was created it was economically & militarily crippled beyond repair - We had no funds & we had no Army & the Opponents of Pakistan used to jeer - 'that this madness (Pakistan) would end in a matter of months & they'd come crawling back to India begging to be reintegrated'. On top of that millions of refugees from India poured into Pakistan & Jinnah saw their rehabilitation, hundreds of thousands of refugees were butchered along the way with thousands of women raped & then killed ! Whole trains were to come from India into Pakistan on which not a single Muslim remained alive.

He had to deal with that & at the same time he had to stop the enraged Muslims who were killing Hindus & Sikhs in revenge & anger for what they had to done to Muslims.

In addition to that he also oversaw Pakistan's first war with India in 1948 (a few months before his death) where the British Generals we had employed because we had not Muslim Officers to command them refused to follow orders & still with that rag-tag Army, some Tribals & a lot of Muslim Volunteers we managed to capture 37% of Kashmir while India captured another 43% & the remainder belonging to the Chinese.

So you can imagine it was hell & he was dealing with problems beyond our capacity !

He then died a few months after that & we've suffered ever since ! He & Iqbal used to talk about how power would be taken back from the Religious Clerics who go about on their self-styled divine mission but instead exercised through the proper Parliament of a Democratic State where we'd attempt to reform & reinterpret Islam in the light of Modernity so that we can give to the world viable & workable examples of Islamic Jurisprudence, Social Justice, Equality of Man & Islamic Socialism !

Unfortunately, as I said earlier, none of that......NONE of that happened ! Because his successors were nothing more than power hungry politicians & generals who were sold out to the highest bidder or whose sole ambition in life was rip-off the common Pakistani to build their own Palaces & Feudal Estates.
Why didnt the muslim nations help you,did you ask them(Turkey,Iran and the Arabs)?
We should have.
 
I am sorry guys but truth is: We (Anatolian Turks) have to learn Russian.If we learn it,be sure all of Turkic people can understand each other very well...Ben iki Kırgız'ın kırgızca anlaşamadıkları için ve kendilerini rusça çok daha iyi ifade edebildikleri için anadilleri yerine rusçayı tercih ettiklerine defalarca şahit oldum,kusura bakmayın,acı ama gerçek,80 yıllık Sovyet emperyalizminin meyveleri bunlar...ve son bir şey daha Rusya onların gözünde hala büyük abi,bizim gözümüzdeki ABD yani.
In that case no need for a Turkic union if we even cant talk our own laguage.

But for your information at 1931 only 35% of Turkish was Turkish origin and 51% Was arabic
Today is 90% Turkish origin and 6% Arabic thanks to Turkish Laguage Associaton, created by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk.

Türkische Sprache
(German)
Turkish Language Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(English)

Also israelis used hebrev as the official laguage of israel, a almost dead language.

All Turkic countrys except of Turkey had kyrillic alphabet during soviet time but today only Kasachstan uses it others have latin alphabet.

I think its only a matter of education system.
 
Why didnt the muslim nations help you,did you ask them(Turkey,Iran and the Arabs)?
We should have.

Not that I know of !

Most of the funds we got were from Pakistanis themselves contributing to the State Exchequer !

I know my Grandpa (he was 33 at the time of the country's birth) gave his couple of month's salary, much of his savings & some of his Mom's Jewelery to the State Treasury - Thousands of Pakistanis did the same !

Many Pakistanis took in so many of the refugees who came from India - fed them, clothed them & accepted them as their own ! But many others were not so fortunate - Many were left with nothing & many were wronged by those Pakistani vermin who picked on widows, orphans & the needy & occupied the just property that was allotted by the Government to the refugees !

Do you know there were even instances where Muslim Women were raped along the way to Pakistan so many times by the Hindus & the Sikh Mobs that they had gone numb & were mentally disturbed because of that !

Do you know what is even more shameful ? When some of those women came to Pakistan & found their families - Their own families refused to accept them - A rape victim...a social stigma in those times ! Despicable beyond imagination.

And yet there were those people who took those women in & adopted them as their own daughters or made them their own spouses & gave them a new life !

So all of it was both extremely sad & extremely proud - We were despicable beyond imagination & yet we were humane beyond imagination !

Most of my family members from Kashmir got cut along the way - Whole families butchered ! My Mom's Uncle lost his entire family of 20 in Kashmir...not even his sisters were spared - Only he & his younger brother (15 & 10 respectively) ran all the way from where they lived in Jammu (part of Kashmir) to Pakistan on foot ! They traveled perhaps a 100 km & they used to travel in the dead of night to escape getting caught....Uncle used to say that we ran & we ran one night till we heard the sound of Muslim Call to Prayer (Azan) being given & we got the courage to go towards that & we asked the first person we saw where we were & when they told us 'Pakistan' - We - both of us - fell down in prostration & cried hysterically till one of the village old ladies took us in, fed & clothed us as if we were her grandsons & thats how we began our journey in Pakistan !

I'm sure there are sorrowful tales like this on the other side as well !
 
Yes someone knows Anatolian Turkish can understand language of distant Turkic countries like Kazakhistan or Uzbekistan of course understanding percentage will be half of what we understand from Azeri Turkish but still enough to communicate.Lets say Anatolian Turkish speaker understand Azeri Turkish on %85-%90 percentage for Kazakhistan , Turkmenistan and Kırgızistan percentage will be around %50-%60.Lowest percentage probably belong to Uzbek language with %30 to %40.

Out of my own experience. Uzbek is probably the most far away from Anatolian Turkish.
I had a Uzbek colleaguem. I worked for quite a time.

Yes we could understand each other. Although it was slow and we had to listen very carefully to each other.
@Abii

In that case no need for a Turkic union if we even cant talk our own laguage.

But for your information at 1931 only 35% of Turkish was Turkish origin and 51% Was arabic
Today is 90% Turkish origin and 6% Arabic thanks to Turkish Laguage Associaton, created by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk.

Türkische Sprache
(German)
Turkish Language Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(English)

Also israelis used hebrev as the official laguage of israel, a almost dead language.

All Turkic countrys except of Turkey had kyrillic alphabet during soviet time but today only Kasachstan uses it others have latin alphabet.

I think its only a matter of education system.
Interesting.
I thought Uzbeks also used Cyrilic (spelling?).

I know Russian is huge in Uzbekistan though.
 
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Interesting.
I thought Uzbeks also used Cyrilic (spelling?).

I know Russian is huge in Uzbekistan though.

The kind of alphabet doesn't matter. İmportant thing is the language spoken.
You can write persian in arabic as well as latin right? Same case for Turkey.
 
Not that I know of !

Most of the funds we got were from Pakistanis themselves contributing to the State Exchequer !

I know my Grandpa (he was 33 at the time of the country's birth) gave his couple of month's salary, much of his savings & some of his Mom's Jewelery to the State Treasury - Thousands of Pakistanis did the same !

Many Pakistanis took in so many of the refugees who came from India - fed them, clothed them & accepted them as their own ! But many others were not so fortunate - Many were left with nothing & many were wronged by those Pakistani vermin who picked on widows, orphans & the needy & occupied the just property that was allotted by the Government to the refugees !

Do you know there were even instances where Muslim Women were raped along the way to Pakistan so many times by the Hindus & the Sikh Mobs that they had gone numb & were mentally disturbed because of that !

Do you know what is even more shameful ? When some of those women came to Pakistan & found their families - Their own families refused to accept them - A rape victim...a social stigma in those times ! Despicable beyond imagination.

And yet there were those people who took those women in & adopted them as their own daughters or made them their own spouses & gave them a new life !

So all of it was both extremely sad & extremely proud - We were despicable beyond imagination & yet we were humane beyond imagination !

Most of my family members from Kashmir got cut along the way - Whole families butchered ! My Mom's Uncle lost his entire family of 20 in Kashmir...not even his sisters were spared - Only he & his younger brother (15 & 10 respectively) ran all the way from where they lived in Jammu (part of Kashmir) to Pakistan on foot ! They traveled perhaps a 100 km & they used to travel in the dead of night to escape getting caught....Uncle used to say that we ran & we ran one night till we heard the sound of Muslim Call to Prayer (Azan) being given & we got the courage to go towards that & we asked the first person we saw where we were & when they told us 'Pakistan' - We - both of us - fell down in prostration & cried hysterically till one of the village old ladies took us in, fed & clothed us as if we were her grandsons & thats how we began our journey in Pakistan !

I'm sure there are sorrowful tales like this on the other side as well !
Wow ,im srry for all the suffering your people have experienced.
But what i dont understand,where were all the muslim nations?
You helped us during the war of independence,so why didnt we help you?
I find unacceptable that no muslim country helped you or any country.
 
Wow ,im srry for all the suffering your people have experienced.
But what i dont understand,where were all the muslim nations?
You helped us during the war of independence,so why didnt we help you?
I find unacceptable that no muslim country helped you or any country.

Most of the Muslim Countries were going through problematic times during those years with many themselves gaining their Independence !

I'm sure Turkey must have helped us ! :)
 
Here is a Turkish program about possible Turkic union and relations:
This is only part 1
 
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Most of the Muslim Countries were going through problematic times during those years with many themselves gaining their Independence !

I'm sure Turkey must have helped us ! :)
I think this is also a reason why we are so close, both people suffered alot during independence.
We are like two Remy(Sans Famille).
Those who think like me will allways be with Pakistan,you can be sure of that.
 
@Armstrong

Dunno if it's true, but I heard that the Turkish independence war was a great inspiration for the Muslim people under British rule in Asia.
Is this true?
 
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