Turkey's War on Terror and the Negotiations

[atatwolf]

Those are only demands. They will never get those things. I think AKP is trying to internally destroy PKK by setting them against each other.

Even Americans talk with terrorist. So why shouldn't we? But what really upsets me. We have one of the strongest armies in NATO. Why don't we just go to Iraq and clean the caves. They are all hiding there. We don't go there and then we say, why doesn't this PKK go away. Erdogan is a *****. Ataturk would already invaded Iraq and cleaned the roots of PKK.

Legandary commander Osman Pamukoğlu describes the PKK camps in Iran.

22:06 - Zagros Camp
22:10 - Mezikarya Dere Camp
22:30 - Iran now lets them (pkk).

OMG, I just thought about him and you posted him :p

He basically thinks what I think.

 

[Jamaal Yelmaaz]

Releasing Apo, giving autonomy or land; these are out of the question and both sides know it very well. Besides Apo himself said that they wish for unitary and democratic Turkish Republic. So no, they don't want land, as a matter of fact i doubt if they know what they are fighting for.

Dear dude, The last 9 years of fighting of PKK(2004-2013) was completely againist AKP government and Gulen jamaat. PKK in 1999 upon capturing A.Ocalan gave up all his claims that he fought for..
Ocalan just demanded some cultural rights that very low level than the ones which AKP governmnt provided Kurds at the moment.

may be you could remember PKK liquidated himself and set up as KADEK. later KADEK liquidated himself too and founded KONGRA-GEL(Congress of People). there were no any concepts related Kurdistan or Kurds in regulations of KONGRA-GEL Apo constantly praised MK. Ataturk and became one of no:1 Kemalist, refuted all claims he advocated before on the behalf of Kurds.

as from 2004 some internal powers deployed PKK by charging A.Ocalan from Imrali. some staffs from Turkish army permited of re-organizations PKK and provided Hakkari and Sirnak regions as save heaven for PKK. some high rank members of TSK delibrately had ignorant PKK attacks that caused death of tens soldiers..

AKP only could dominated Army after meeting of the Supreme Military Council in Augost 2011. in that meeting Necdet Özer became chief of staff of TSK, Many generals were retired, new generals had been charged instead of them.

the actul times of AKP started to fight againist PKK was the beginning of September of 2011. within 1-1.5 years of period PKK underwent hardets blows with heaviest casualties of all his time. in 2012 bilateral casualty rate almost 1/10 was againist PKK. At the end of 2012 PKK has already come to the end of the road.

So im sure that government taking right steps in right tracks and on the right time. Besides, Government has a strong initiatives over the process.

First PKK gonna draw all its militans from out side of Turkey to northen iraq. Later it willbe gradually disarmed while government will carry out numbers of reform related Kurdish id. language and cultural rights. for example. the banned old names of east region of turkey and Kurdish cities may be given back as they were in Othman era.. name of Kurdistan could be given back only in geographical terms just like regions of Trakya, Marmara,Samsun, Trabzon etc.. Like western regions of iran; west Azarbaijan, east Azarbaijan, Kordestan etc..

one of Turkish NGO business associations recently have made an inquiry in east of turkey among Kurds. 95% of people were in favor of pro-unity of Turkey and againist seperation.

this is solely my own personnel predictions and estimations..i may be mistaken in some points.

 

[Sam1980]

Please explain why we would support a group that wants to ultimately form the "Greater Kurdistan"? I can't wait to see your explanations

 

[-SINAN-]

Look man, I don't know much about Iran nor i'am interested.
What i know about Iran by our media is :

1- Iran supports PKK terrorists.
2- Occasionally some random bearded guy (iranian official) threatens Turkey.

So maybe you should ask to your officials, about the explanations.

 

[Axa-]

Releasing Apo, giving autonomy or land; these are out of the question and both sides know it very well. Besides Apo himself said that they wish for unitary and democratic Turkish Republic. So no, they don't want land, as a matter of fact i doubt if they know what they are fighting for.

i doubt if they know what they are fighting for

Are you serious?

They left their lives and families behind to join this so called ''freedom'' movement, they sacrifice their lives for the cause. And all that is for just ''nothing''?

AKP already promised Apo that he'll be released.

Those informations were leaked you can find them on all the mediaoutlets.

 

[TurAr]

i doubt if they know what they are fighting for

Are you serious?

They left their lives and families behind to join this so called ''freedom'' movement, they sacrifice their lives for the cause. And all that is for just ''nothing''?

AKP already promised Apo that he'll be released.

Those informations were leaked you can find them on all the mediaoutlets.

What life? They had no life, no education, no income, which is why they were too vulnurable to brainwashing, hence making the decision of living in caves for the rest of their lifes (which is being approximately 5 years according to the reports) with ease. Which is why PKK has the ability to recuirt even more people despite the fact that nearly 35.000 of them have been slaughtered in the past 3 decade. Which is why keeping eastern Turkey as underdeveloped and its people as ignorant serves its interests.

So yes, they've joined PKK because they had nothing and they are killing innocent people for nothing.

Releasing Apo would be a political suicide for AKP. I've read the reports, where exactly it says AKP made a such promise?

 

[Sam1980]

1- Iran supports PKK terrorists.
2- Occasionally some random bearded guy (iranian official) threatens Turkey.

I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense, Iran is fighting Iranian branch of PPK; PJAK which also threatens the stability of our Western regions, that won't be wise to support our enemy...

As a matter of fact,

AFP: Turkey, Iran bombard Kurdish rebels in Iraq: PKK
Iran, Turkey Escalate Battle Against Iraq Kurds
1000s of Iranian Revolutionary Guards crossed into north Iraq, bombarding Kurdish villages

"Most experts describe PJAK as an offshoot of the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK).[10] According to the New York Times, the PJAK shares the same leadership and logistics of the PKK militants in Turkey, as well as allegiance to its leader, Abdullah Öcalan, but unlike the PKK fights Iranian government forces rather than the Turkish government ones." Wikipedia.

 

[TurAr]

I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense, Iran is fighting Iranian branch of PPK; PJAK which also threatens the stability of our Western regions, that won't be wise to support our enemy...

As a matter of fact,

AFP: Turkey, Iran bombard Kurdish rebels in Iraq: PKK
Iran, Turkey Escalate Battle Against Iraq Kurds
1000s of Iranian Revolutionary Guards crossed into north Iraq, bombarding Kurdish villages

"Most experts describe PJAK as an offshoot of the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK).[10] According to the New York Times, the PJAK shares the same leadership and logistics of the PKK militants in Turkey, as well as allegiance to its leader, Abdullah Öcalan, but unlike the PKK fights Iranian government forces rather than the Turkish government ones." Wikipedia.

Those were the good old days. Now the things are different.

We had this discussion before with Iranians, neither side had been able to change the others mind, just let it go...

 

[Sam1980]

Those were the good old days. Now the things are different.

We had this discussion before with Iranians, neither side had been able to change the others mind, just let it go...

I don't want to derail this thread, but before I go, I have to clarify one thing: Kurdistan is a very sensitive region, even if PPK manages to reach an agreement with Turkey that leads to decreased control of Turkey over its borders that's dangerous for us as well, because we will be the next as they may turn their attention towards us, so that doesn't make any sense for Iran to weaken its ally.

At the moment, Kurds have the Iraqi-Kurdistan which is already in constant struggle with central government and literally doesn't give a #@# about the central government policies, Iraqi-Kurdistan is secure and has steady source of income, so I don't think if any of us (Iranians or Turks) want to see a part of our countries form the "Greater Kurdistan" with Erbil as its capital?!

 

[Neptune]

I want peace too. But how can you expect me to accept the negotiations between our gov't and the guys who fired an RPG through my fathers room while he was doing his East Service? BS! You can never trust to terrorists. Never.

 

[what]

Please let's don't turn this into Iran vs Turkey too.

On topic:
Kill the Pkk, no special rights for any ethnicity, educate the Kurds about their rights and why they (even if they don't believe it) have the same rights as everyone else in Turkey. Creating jobs would be a plus but no one will invest in the east as long as they have to fear terrorist attacks.

 

[TurAr]

Kill the Pkk, no special rights for any ethnicity, educate the Kurds about their rights and why they (even if they don't believe it) have the same rights as everyone else in Turkey. Creating jobs would be a plus but no one will invest in the east as long as they have to fear terrorist attacks.

In order for killing to work, new recruitments should be prevented. In order for new recruitments to be prevented, region needs a certain level of prosperity and its people needs a certain level of education. In order for region to prosper and its people to get certain level of education, PKK must be eliminated. In order to eliminate PKK, killing them must be work. In order for killing to work...

Although i agree with you on equality, but i wouldn't say no to certain level of positive discrimination for eastern regions.

 

[what]

I'm aware of the dilemma. We could start with state companies moving production there, the GAP project will help a lot. Cities with no or low Pkk activity and a big Kurdish population should be those where the state should invest. After all that's how you teach animals and humans make no difference in that matter. People will move from Hakkari to Gaziantep because they realize that they're enjoying their life's over there.

We will slowly get there and until then we will educate the east and kill those Bastards. I'm against any form of discrimination, what's next special rights for Laz then maybe another ethnicity? F.uck that.

 

[TurAr]

I'm aware of the dilemma. We could start with state companies moving production there, the GAP project will help a lot. Cities with no or low Pkk activity and a big Kurdish population should be those where the state should invest. After all that's how you teach animals and humans make no difference in that matter. People will move from Hakkari to Gaziantep because they realize that they're enjoying their life's over there.

We should hope for the best for these negotiations to end well. If it fails, there won't be negotiations any more. ANKA and T-129 are almost ready, if it fails, IMO Turkey will not care if the killing works or not, there will be bloodbath. And those "give a chance to peace" guys will STFU.

We will slowly get there and until then we will educate the east and kill those Bastards. I'm against any form of discrimination, what's next special rights for Laz then maybe another ethnicity? F.uck that.

 

[-SINAN-]

Please let's don't turn this into Iran vs Turkey too.

On topic:
Kill the Pkk, no special rights for any ethnicity, educate the Kurds about their rights and why they (even if they don't believe it) have the same rights as everyone else in Turkey. Creating jobs would be a plus but no one will invest in the east as long as they have to fear terrorist attacks.

When we say the things you mentioned. They say "we are not on actual terms. You can speak your own language while i can't"
I think basic rights can be given like learning in kurdish in schools etc. but "self government, general pardon(genel af) , house arrest to apo" these are absolutely no. I can't be sure of the definition of citizenship.