Turkey’s S-400 vs F-35 dilemma in 2019

[zectech]

Counter if there is no training on F-35s, production stops, and no more shipment of F-35s... all foreign military bases will close in Turkey. But stay in NATO.

 

[waz]

Turkey has been given a deadline of the end of July to choose between buying US fighter jets and Russian anti-aircraft missile systems.

Acting US Defence Secretary Patrick Shanahan set out the ultimatum in a letter to his Turkish counterpart, Hulusi Akar.

Turkey, he said, could not have both America's F-35 advanced fighter jets and Russia's S-400 systems.

The two Nato allies have been locked in a row over the S-400 for months.

America argues that the Russian systems are both incompatible with Nato defence systems and pose a security threat, and wants Turkey to buy its Patriot anti-aircraft systems instead.

Turkey, which has been pursuing an increasingly independent defence policy, has signed up to buying 100 F-35s, and has invested heavily in the F-35 programme, with Turkish companies producing 937 of the plane's parts.

What consequences does Turkey face?
Mr Shanahan says in his letter that the US is "disappointed" to hear that Turkish personnel have been sent to Russia to train on the S-400.

"Turkey will not receive the F-35 if Turkey takes delivery of the S-400," he writes. "You still have the option to change course on the S-400."

Image
S-400 missile system from Russia
The letter includes a schedule for winding down Turkish participation in F-35 pilot training.




Text of Shanahan letter to #Turkey on ending its participation in F-35 program over Russia S-400 acquisition. Mentions Congress support...

"We do not want to have the F-35 in close proximity to the S-400 over a period of time because of the ability to understand the profile of the F-35 on that particular piece of equipment," US Under Secretary of Defence Ellen Lord told reporters.

The first four F-35s due to be delivered to Turkey have still not left the US, officially to allow Turkish pilots to train in them in America.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said on Tuesday his country was "determined" to proceed with the S-400 deal.

F-35s on HMS Queen Elizabeth carry out the first "rolling" landing.
"Unfortunately we haven't received a positive proposal from the American side on the subject of Patriots like the S-400s from Russia," he said.

Turkey has the second-largest army in Nato, a 29-member military alliance set up to defend against what was at the time the Soviet Union.

The head of Russia's state defence conglomerate Rostec, Sergei Chemezov, was quoted as saying on Friday that Russia would start delivering the S-400 to Turkey in "about two months".


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48568282

 

[KediKesenFare3]

I am almost sure that we will be kicked from Nato in 2 years. Another thing that I am sure is Russia will go away once we will no longer have any benefits for them.

If you really think this you should never comment on any Turkey-related issues again. The US would literally kill Erdoğan and all of his family members one by one rather than letting Turkey quit NATO.

Can you even imagine what it would mean for Europe and America to lose Turkey in terms of geopolitics?

This will never happen.

 

[PakAlp]

If you really think this you should never comment on any Turkey-related issue again. The US would literally kill Erdoğan and all of his family members one by one rather than letting Turkey quit NATO.

Can you even imagine what it would mean for Europe and America to lose Turkey in terms of geopolitics?

This will never happen.

Can you enlighten us on why Turkey is so important for Europe and USA. USA has 40+ European countries in its pockets, all Gulf nations, many African nations, Japan, India, S Korea.

Why would one Turkey become such a big setback? What has Turkey to offer in term of Technology, Economy, and politics?

 

[maximuswarrior]

Can you enlighten us on why Turkey is so important for Europe and USA. USA has 40+ European countries in its pockets, all Gulf nations, many African nations, Japan, India, S Korea.

Why would one Turkey become such a big setback? What has Turkey to offer in term of Technology, Economy, and politics?

Look for Turkey on the world map and tell me what you see.

 

[TheMightyBender]

If you really think this you should never comment on any Turkey-related issues again. The US would literally kill Erdoğan and all of his family members one by one rather than letting Turkey quit NATO.

Can you even imagine what it would mean for Europe and America to lose Turkey in terms of geopolitics?

This will never happen.

The guy doesnt even know how nato works. NATO doesnt even have a “kicking out” procedure. In other words, there is no such thing as kicking a country out of NATO.

Can you enlighten us on why Turkey is so important for Europe and USA. USA has 40+ European countries in its pockets, all Gulf nations, many African nations, Japan, India, S Korea.

Why would one Turkey become such a big setback? What has Turkey to offer in term of Technology, Economy, and politics?

For starters:
1- Turkey can send a tiny pack of 2-3 million refugees to Europe which will devastate it economically and socially, unless they play nice of course.
2- Europe is hoping to build a “European Army”. Turkey has the largest military in Europe aside from Russia. Now you figure out what kind of an army a “European army” would be without its biggest military member.
3- Turkey controls the bosporus. In wartime the black sea is Turkey’s private pool. Be nice to us and we wont even let Russia use its only warm-water ports (during war). Be bad to us and we will have a party with the Russians in the black sea and you are not invited.
4- Turkey single handedly constitutes the southern gas corridor.

 

[maximuswarrior]

The guy doesnt even know how nato works. NATO doesnt even have a “kicking out” procedure. In other words, there is no such thing as kicking a country out of NATO.


For starters:
1- Turkey can send a tiny pack of 2-3 million refugees to Europe which will devastate it economically and socially, unless they play nice of course.
2- Europe is hoping to build a “European Army”. Turkey has the largest military in Europe aside from Russia. Now you figure out what kind of an army a “European army” would be without its biggest military member.
3- Turkey controls the bosporus. In wartime the black sea is Turkey’s private pool. Be nice to us and we wont even let Russia use its only warm-water ports (during war). Be bad to us and we will have a party with the Russians in the black sea and you are not invited.
4- Turkey single handedly constitutes the southern gas corridor.

The US also makes use of strategic military bases and airfields in Turkey if I am not mistaken.

The hate that the West possesses against Turkey is pretty self-evident. Despite this hate the West cannot let Turkey go. That speaks volume.

 

[Yankee-stani]

As much as I hate the Yanks Turkey made a blunder hugeee one that they themselves know inside imagine 20 years of research,tech transfers,scientists of Turkish origin plus High level millitary officers from there invested a lot there now for one missile system poof possibly gone things would have been ok of the Turks were level headed but this Pan Turkism and Neo Ottoman bull shit thanks to Erdogan warped their view they managed to piss the Chinese over a failed missile system deal interfere in their internal affairs on Xinjiang the Russians may be friendly for now but once Syria clears up back to square one I think for now this is posturing by both sides I think Turkey will opt for the F-35 eventually and pass over the S-400 or come with some excuse to delay Erdogan is a big talker look what happen with the Brundo affair a year ago sooner he us leaves the better

 

[SipahSalar]

Go for F-35. Turkey can make its own S-400, its not the same level of tech as F-35. Or they can betray USA once they have 20+ F-35s.

 

[maximuswarrior]

Go for F-35. Turkey can make its own S-400, its not the same level of tech as F-35. Or they can betray USA once they have 20+ F-35s.

Don't underestimate S-400. Turkey cannot build this all by itself. Not even the Americans can build something as good as S-400. The Russians are masters of building anti-aircraft missile systems. It is not a joke.

 

[PakAlp]

Look for Turkey on the world map and tell me what you see.

Looking at it. I can see the importance but is it so important that USA and Europe will blackmailed by Turkey.

 

[maximuswarrior]

Looking at it. I can see the importance but is it so important that USA and Europe will blackmailed by Turkey. View attachment 564209

Remember that Turkey is not blackmailing here.

It is the US who demands Turkey to not buy S-400.

That is like someone dictating to me what groceries I can and cannot buy.

 

[aziqbal]

This sounds bad, real bad

 

[PakAlp]

Remember that Turkey is not blackmailing here.

It is US that demands Turkey not buy S-400.

That's what am saying. If Turkey carries on with anti West policies and the purchase of Russia s400 then USA will take action. They won't care how important Turkey is but some PDF members believe USA will not do much as they need Turkey and they cannot leave Turkey. I do pray it's true as Turkey has a good future.

I can see clearly how much advantage Russia would have by having Turkey in its camp.

 

[aziqbal]

the letter also says this is separate from the CAASTA

and that there is congressional determination to punish further via these sanctions