Turkey will stop teaching evolution in schools, education ministry says

[I.R.A]

Of course egyptians mummified pregnant women, they even mummified embryos. Two were found in Tut Anch Amuns tomb. If a person died it had to be mummified for religious reasons.

The knowledge was wide spread. People travelled alot. How you think roman architecture made it down to Jordan and Saudi Arabia? There was trade and exchange.

And an Arab discovered those tombs and studied the embryos in detail so he can write it in a book? The detail given in Quran is by someone who would have seen the whole stage wise embryology and what stage would come first and what latter and how much time each stage would last.

If the knowledge was widespread and people were travelling then why would Arabs of that time accept it as something new and revolutionizing? They were strong compared to Messenger Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and his few followers. How so many people fell for hear say or borrowed ideas?

Anyhow why would Egyptians some time latter believe and submit to an ideology that was based on ideas borrowed from their civilisation? Egypt and Jordan were part of Roman empire so it would have their Architecture. A weak borrowed ideology cannot take on two super powers of its time simultaneously.

I think i will do some more self study on as to what Quran has to say on about it

Get a good translation of Surah Nisa (Chapter 3) not the traditional one but more scientific one and may be you will understand evolution in light of Quran.

 

[The Sandman]

Get a good translation of Surah Nisa (Chapter 3) not the traditional one but more scientific one and may be you will understand evolution in light of Quran.

I'm reading Quran atm with translation and tafseer obv Sahih international is the most authentic one right? but which one is more scientific?

 

[ValerioAurelius]

And an Arab discovered those tombs and studied the embryos in detail so he can write it in a book? The detail given in Quran is by someone who would have seen the whole stage wise embryology and what stage would come first and what latter and how much time each stage would last.

If the knowledge was widespread and people were travelling then why would Arabs of that time accept it as something new and revolutionizing? They were strong compared to Messenger Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and his few followers. How so many people fell for hear say or borrowed ideas?

Anyhow why would Egyptians some time latter believe and submit to an ideology that was based on ideas borrowed from their civilisation? Egypt and Jordan were part of Roman empire so it would have their Architecture. A weak borrowed ideology cannot take on two super powers of its time simultaneously.



Get a good translation of Surah Nisa (Chapter 3) not the traditional one but more scientific one and may be you will understand evolution in light of Quran.

That arab had contact with other people. Egypt is nearby. People travelled alot.

I feel like i debate with a child here. He dont have to discover tombs. Its enough to talk wizh a doctor who was educated in Alexandria or any other big city.

Egypt was destroyed by the arabs and forced to accept islam. There was no freedom of choice.

 

[veg]

Can we please drop this "Ulema" argument? I have already conveyed we have different definition of "Ulema" ... and personally I don't treat any sort of Ulema to be final authority and their understanding and interpretation as full and final.

Quran is guide for a person who really goes out and ponders on creation and tries understanding .......... it is not Quran's fault that people read it like a parrot and cover it with most fanciest clothes. Sitting in one room and just reading the Quran doesn't help discover new things. The so called ulema would call the gravity infidel ...... will you blame that on Quran too?

Firstly, there were millions of Ulema (Quranic Scholars) during last 1400 years of Islam. They understood Arabic very well and studied Quran whole of their life by pondering upon it (contrary to you who I doubt even know the Arabic Language, let alone all the Ahadith).

Despite all this, these millions of Ulema were unable to come to this conclusion, that you have come here about this verse 21:30

(Quran 21:30) Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?

You are perhaps the ALONE person in this universe and during who has come to this conclusion that earth and heavens were didn't exist at the same time before being separated. And you were compelled to deny the open meaning of Quran while it is clearly a scientific error of Quran.

Actually you have no idea and you barely have grasp over whole Quran, while at another place in Quran it is said that (1) Allah first made the Earth in 2 days (2) then 2/4 days Allah took more to place mountains in it. (3) And only after that the 7 heavens were completed.

(Quran 49:9-12):
“Say (O Muhammad): Do you verily disbelieve in Him Who created the earth in two Days? ...He placed therein (i.e. the earth) firm mountains from above it, and He blessed it, and measured therein its sustenance (for its dwellers) in four Days ... Then He rose over (Istawa) towards the heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth: ‘Come both of you willingly or unwillingly.’ They both said: ‘We come willingly.’ Then He completed and finished from their creation (as) seven heavens in two Days and He made in each heaven its affair. And We adorned the nearest (lowest) heaven with lamps (stars) to be an adornment as well as to guard (from the devils by using them as missiles against the devils). Such is the Decree of Him, the All-Mighty, the All-Knower”

So, here Quran even reversed the creation of Heavens and earth. This is hugest scientific error of Quran. Earth came into being only recently (about 4 Billion years go) when many other stars destroyed and then merged with each other and gave birth to planet earth.

Now where are you going to escape?

I haven't seen ordinary Ulema telling me that human embryo in its initial stage resembles like a leech, they didn't tell me that mountains have roots, they didn't tell me universe is ever expanding, they didn't tell me sun and moon revolve in their orbits, they didn't tell what keeps me intact on Earth ............ we both know how far they (current day ordinary ulema) are from any scientific discoveries and reasoning. They believe in Buraq and I believe that there was no mosque with the name "Al Aqsa" at that time.

(1) Islamic/Quranic Embryology is again total disaster and totally against the modern science. The leech type argument is totally false.

(2) Moutains are pegs:
This was thought even before Islam by the pre Islamic Kuffar too, and other cultures too. Again Quran made a scientific error here, just like the pre Islamic arabs.

(3) Expansion of universe in Quran is again a myth.

Bring your proof, if you are truthful.

 

[veg]

a person who cant understand difference between fact and theory is not a student of science. theory of evolution means "theory" of evolution and not "fact" of evolution. you dont even know the basics of scientific terms. may be in your school they have been using the term fact of evolution while in most of the books it is still the "theory" of evolution. now dont start quoting some of your school books who claim it a fact of evolution . theory means something or lower degree then a fact, law or principle.

Religious community starts mixing "hypothesis" with "Scientific Theory". Let me give an explanation from wikipedia, so that you could comprehend the difference between hypothesis, law and scientific theory.

///
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory
A scientific theory is an explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can, in accordance with the scientific method, be repeatedly tested, using a predefined protocol of observations and experiments.[1][2] Established scientific theories have withstood rigorous scrutiny and are a comprehensive form of scientific knowledge.[3]

It is important to note that the definition of a "scientific theory" (often ambiguously contracted to "theory" for the sake of brevity, including in this page) as used in the disciplines of science is significantly different from the common vernacular usage of the word "theory".[4][Note 1] In everyday non-scientific speech, "theory" can imply that something is an unsubstantiated and speculative guess, conjecture, idea, or, hypothesis;[4] such a usage is the opposite of the word "theory" in science. These different usages are comparable to the differing, and often opposing, usages of the term "prediction" in science versus "prediction" in vernacular speech, denoting a mere hope.

Both scientific laws and scientific theories are produced from the scientific method through the formation and testing of hypotheses, and can predict the behavior of the natural world. Both are typically well-supported by observations and/or experimental evidence.[27] However, scientific laws are descriptive accounts of how nature will behave under certain conditions.[28] Scientific theories are broader in scope, and give overarching explanations of how nature works and why it exhibits certain characteristics. Theories are supported by evidence from many different sources, and may contain one or several laws.[29]

A common misconception is that scientific theories are rudimentary ideas that will eventually graduate into scientific laws when enough data and evidence have been accumulated. A theory does not change into a scientific law with the accumulation of new or better evidence. A theory will always remain a theory; a law will always remain a law.[27][30][31]
////

All the scientific evidences are proving the Theory of Evolution. There exist not even a single scientific evidence against the Theory of Evolution.

While the religious community (known as Creationists) don't even have the "Hypothesis" to prove their religious stories. They are simply unable to answer even a single question raised by the science in this regard.

as far as mutashbiha ayats are concerned i really dont want to write about it here as Quran instructs not to waste time with stubborn people. just say greetings to them and move on but still i have some time to waste here with an arrogant stubborn person. Quran consists of two types of ayats . the main bulk of the Quran are ayats muhkamat which means ayats which are plain and simple. any scholar can give details about such ayats. these verses form the basics of Quran and they are sufficient to make a person understand everything about his religion which he needs. complete set of instructions are given in these ayats. now Quran says itself that there are some other ayats which are mutashabihat which means ayats which are not plain and clear and a learned scholar can give his interpretation and not the definite "fatwa" or ruling. many scholars may give different interpretation to such ayats. these are intelligent assumptions and muslims are not bound to accept such interpretations of any particular scholar. the purpose of ayat mutashbihat are many. first they make muslims to use their brains and think about Quran and their surroundings. second they promote the idea of reasoning among muslims. third they make muslims to study science, history and escatology to unveil the secrets hidden in these ayats. fourth and the most imp which Quran itself says that these ayats are a test to ones faith. those who have stubbornness in their heart will only concentrate on these ayats and ask questions like "what Allah means by these ayats?" they get lost in these verses and forget the message. you are a perfect example of this that's why i wrote in the beginning that i am wasting my time here while arguing with you. many of ayats which were among the mutashbihat at the time of the Prophet Muhammad SAW are now mukamat . over the period of time history unveiled some of the secrets in these ayats and science also unveiled some of the ayats like those related to embryology.
finding mistakes and errors in Quran is nothing new. it simply means that some humans believe that this book is not from God rather it is written by a man . how can a God who made a perfect universe can make errors in a book. it's impossible. but Quran has one simple challenge to all such people . if you think this is not from God then make a chapter similar to any chapter in Quran .Quran even goes further by saying that bring all humans and "jinns" to your help. so this challenge is for you as well. make a chapter similar to Quran. people have tried it in past and failed. some accepted islam after failing the challenge while others were still stubborn.
i think i have wasted my time enough. so i wont be smashing my head against the wall anymore by replying to your any new illogical comment. BYE

Brother, you are running in circles. You say Mutashabeh verses are there to test the belief of people.
But here Non-Muslims are not being misguided by the wrong quranic science, but these are the Muslims who have been misguided by the this verse of Quran (which you claim to be Mutashabeh, but you have no proof of it as Allah says in Quran no one know which are those Mutashabeh verses in the Quran).

Not only the Muslims of last 1400 years have been misguided by this verse of Quran, but also a question mark is here about the Prophet Muhammad himself too who again unable to understand this Mutashabeh verse and giving the wrong scientific claim in his Hadith:

Sahih Muslim, Hadith 7054:
It was narrated that Abu Hurairah said: "The Messenger of Allah took my hand and said: 'Allah, (Glorified and Exalted is He,) created the earth on Saturday, and over it He created the mountains on Sunday. He created the trees on Monday, He created things entailing labor on Tuesday, He created light on Wednesday, He scattered the animals in it on Thursday, and He created Adam, peace be upon him, after 'Asr on Friday, the last of creation in the last hour of Friday, between 'Asr and nightfall."

Here once again Prophet is telling the false and reverse order to creation.
Also note that trees could not be produced without the light, but Prophet is claiming that light came into being later and trees were formed earlier.

I don't know where to start and where to end, while all that Quran and Hadith is telling about the Science are only horrible scientific errors.

 

[AKD]

Wow! Where world is going forward ,turkey is going backward.
soon turkey will announce whole science and education is haram and everybody will study in a madrassa.

 

[litman]

Religious community starts mixing "hypothesis" with "Scientific Theory". Let me give an explanation from wikipedia, so that you could comprehend the difference between hypothesis, law and scientific theory.

///
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory
A scientific theory is an explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can, in accordance with the scientific method, be repeatedly tested, using a predefined protocol of observations and experiments.[1][2] Established scientific theories have withstood rigorous scrutiny and are a comprehensive form of scientific knowledge.[3]

It is important to note that the definition of a "scientific theory" (often ambiguously contracted to "theory" for the sake of brevity, including in this page) as used in the disciplines of science is significantly different from the common vernacular usage of the word "theory".[4][Note 1] In everyday non-scientific speech, "theory" can imply that something is an unsubstantiated and speculative guess, conjecture, idea, or, hypothesis;[4] such a usage is the opposite of the word "theory" in science. These different usages are comparable to the differing, and often opposing, usages of the term "prediction" in science versus "prediction" in vernacular speech, denoting a mere hope.

Both scientific laws and scientific theories are produced from the scientific method through the formation and testing of hypotheses, and can predict the behavior of the natural world. Both are typically well-supported by observations and/or experimental evidence.[27] However, scientific laws are descriptive accounts of how nature will behave under certain conditions.[28] Scientific theories are broader in scope, and give overarching explanations of how nature works and why it exhibits certain characteristics. Theories are supported by evidence from many different sources, and may contain one or several laws.[29]

A common misconception is that scientific theories are rudimentary ideas that will eventually graduate into scientific laws when enough data and evidence have been accumulated. A theory does not change into a scientific law with the accumulation of new or better evidence. A theory will always remain a theory; a law will always remain a law.[27][30][31]
////

All the scientific evidences are proving the Theory of Evolution. There exist not even a single scientific evidence against the Theory of Evolution.

While the religious community (known as Creationists) don't even have the "Hypothesis" to prove their religious stories. They are simply unable to answer even a single question raised by the science in this regard.





Brother, you are running in circles. You say Mutashabeh verses are there to test the belief of people.
But here Non-Muslims are not being misguided by the wrong quranic science, but these are the Muslims who have been misguided by the this verse of Quran (which you claim to be Mutashabeh, but you have no proof of it as Allah says in Quran no one know which are those Mutashabeh verses in the Quran).

Not only the Muslims of last 1400 years have been misguided by this verse of Quran, but also a question mark is here about the Prophet Muhammad himself too who again unable to understand this Mutashabeh verse and giving the wrong scientific claim in his Hadith:

Sahih Muslim, Hadith 7054:
It was narrated that Abu Hurairah said: "The Messenger of Allah took my hand and said: 'Allah, (Glorified and Exalted is He,) created the earth on Saturday, and over it He created the mountains on Sunday. He created the trees on Monday, He created things entailing labor on Tuesday, He created light on Wednesday, He scattered the animals in it on Thursday, and He created Adam, peace be upon him, after 'Asr on Friday, the last of creation in the last hour of Friday, between 'Asr and nightfall."

Here once again Prophet is telling the false and reverse order to creation.
Also note that trees could not be produced without the light, but Prophet is claiming that light came into being later and trees were formed earlier.

I don't know where to start and where to end, while all that Quran and Hadith is telling about the Science are only horrible scientific errors.

when you dont have the complete knowledge it is better to stay quiet

 

[iajj]

where every nation progresses, the turkics regress. where even animal species evolves, the turkics degrade themselves and turn into foul creatures and vile beasts. evolution must not taught where it is so obviously counterfactual.

 

[Hell hound]

It is taught not just in the 9th grade. Its easy to pick up one paragraph and use it to abuse pakistan but here is the kicker.

Nearly ever school has placed oxford books from 3-4 to 8th and those Oxford books contain evolution and no I am not talking about snazzy private schools. Even schools made in a house have this. I often joke that " kitabein oxford ki aur teachers woh jin ko English ka lafz nahi ata"

Then evolution is taught in biology greatly in matric and Cambridge does not have Punjab textbook books and they are taught evolution as well.

In fact I remember monthly assessments which had questions on evolution.

In fact now that I remember we studied evolution extensively in sixth. All the human forms with time, their dates and differences.

So it is taught and taught well.

@Mian Babban @The Sandman @Hell hound

bro i too studied in government /pakistani embassy school in jeddah. the first time we came to know of this theory of evolution was in 9 th class bio and that too was tainted by the line said by the teacher that even though he is teaching it he don't believe in it.like what the hell dude we were young and reading the theory for the first time instead of encouraging us to read more about it like any science teacher should you are acting like an close minded madrasa teacher and that too in a international school.
same was the case with reproduction system our teacher was so haya dar that he taught us the whole reproductive system chapter of the frog in 15 min and in that time that dude was practically rapping (yes he did it when it was just a frog's system imagine what he would have done if it was human system)

 

[Joe Shearer]

Seriously parsi stop talking about stuff you don't know. Idk why you mlecch feel like you're qualified to talk about things your adharmi mind doesn't understand.

ROTFL

@SarthakGanguly

I blame you entirely for being cruelly unmasked like this.

@padamchen
@jbgt90
@nair
@hellfire
@MilSpec

I've been rumbled by this sharp-eyed young beast. O, woe is me.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Those are derogatory terms aren't they?

You mean 'Mleccha' or 'Adharmi'? Yes, they are supercilious ways of referring to foreigners, and to those with no faith, or faithless; in English, impious. Another secondary meaning of 'adharmi' is treacherous, one who does not follow dharma cannot be depended upon.

Mleccha is a very old word, and was initially about those who did not speak well, that is, foreigners. In early days, the reference was to Persians; an ironic usage, but presumably one that our dimwitted friend uses unwittingly. I do not think that he knows more than the bare superficial meaning of these terms, and certainly do not think that he has the learning or the wit to use it in its most early usage referring to Persians, ie, Parsis. I think he used it instead in the broader sense of foreigner. It was in that sense that the term was used of foreign invaders; the Yavanas, the Bahlikas, the Sakas, the Pahlavas, the Kushan, the Huna; in latter days, of Muslims, and finally, of the ultimate abomination, being the ultimately humiliating force of the British colonialist. I doubt that village idiots have the learning to understand what the word meant in its ramifications, and I believe it was used in the village idiot sense of a 'furriner'.

The reference here is to a supposed Parsi, speaking a strange, incomprehensible language, alien in his social structure and societal interactions, and following an unfamiliar and false faith. Did I mention the phrase 'village idiot' anywhere, when describing the ignorant approach on display?

 

[veg]

Contradictions & Scientific Errors in Quran regarding the creation of Universe

(1) Quranic Creation of Earth first and then heavens later is a Scientific Error
(Quran 41:9-12) Say (O Muhammad, unto the idolaters): Disbelieve ye verily in Him Who created the earth in two Days ?...He placed therein firm hills rising above it, and blessed it and measured therein its sustenance in four Days, alike for (all) who ask; Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke... And He made them seven heavens in two days.

This verse claims that Allah first created the Earth and later He created the heavens.
But according to the science, heavens (universe) were created about 13.8 billion years ago after the Big Bang happened. While the earth came into being long after that when several other stars and planets destroyed and then their parts combined with each other to form the planet earth about 4.5 billion years ago.
So, the earth came into being about 9 billion years later than the heavens.

(2) Quranic Big Bang is also a scientific error:
Muslims today claim Big Bang was told in Quran. They present this verse:
(Quran 21:30) Did those who disbelieved not see that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water?

Again this Quranic Big Bang is full of scientific error, while Heavens and Earth didn't exist at the same time. Heavens came into being 9 billion years before the earth. Therefore, neither both of them were joined together, nor they could have been separated.

(3) Quranic Internal Contradiction: Universe created in 6 days or 8 days?

First verse (which claims 8 days):
(Quran 41:9-12) Say (O Muhammad, unto the idolaters): Disbelieve ye verily in Him Who created the earth in two Days ?...He placed therein firm hills rising above it, and blessed it and measured therein its sustenance in four Days, alike for (all) who ask; Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke... And He made them seven heavens in two days.
So,2 days for creation of Earth + 4 days of placing mountains and sustenance + 2 days for making seven heavens = 8 days in total

First problem of this verse 41:9-12 is this that it is claiming the creation of earth before the heaven, therefore, it is a scientific error.

Secondly it is against the verse which claims that universe was created in 6 days.
Second verse (which claims 6 days):
(Quran 7:54) Indeed, your Lord is Allaah, Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days.

It is a huge internal contradiction of Quran. Muslims have no proper answer to it. At maximum, Islamic website "Islam Question Answer" came up with this "conjecture" (out of it's own pockets) that we could come over this contradiction if we consider when Allah saying about raising of mountains and sustenance in 4 days, then the 2 days creation of earth is also included in it.

If Quran is really a linguistic wonder, then no one could ever accept this lame conjecture of Islam Question Answer website. Quran is very clear about 2 days of creation of earth and then 4 days of raising of mountains and the sustenance. Therefore, Muslims should first accept that there are linguistic problems in Quran, and only then present this conjecture as an argument.

But the problems of Muslims does not end here, as their prophet is also denying their conjecture by telling that indeed Allah was busy for 6+ days in the creation of Earth and mountains and other sustenance on the earth.

Sahih Muslim, Hadith 7054:
عن أبي هريرة، قال: أخذ رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم بيدي فقال: «خلق الله عز وجل التربة يوم السبت، وخلق فيها الجبال يوم الأحد، وخلق الشجر يوم الاثنين، وخلق المكروه يوم الثلاثاء، وخلق النور يوم الأربعاء، وبث فيها الدواب يوم الخميس، وخلق آدم عليه السلام بعد العصر من يوم الجمعة، في آخر الخلق، في آخر ساعة من ساعات الجمعة، فيما بين العصر إلى الليل
It was narrated that Abu Hurairah said: "The Messenger of Allah took my hand and said: 'Allah, (Glorified and Exalted is He,) created the earth on Saturday, and over it He created the mountains on Sunday. He created the trees on Monday, He created things entailing labor on Tuesday, He created light on Wednesday, He scattered the animals in it on Thursday, and He created Adam, peace be upon him, after 'Asr on Friday, the last of creation in the last hour of Friday, between 'Asr and nightfall."

(4) Another scientific error in this hadith is the creation of Trees before the light:
Trees need photosyntheses (light) in order to grow. Then how is it possible that trees were created before the light?
According to science, the sun also came into being about 4.5 billion years ago (almost same when Earth was created). But earth was very very hot in the beginning and no life was possible on the earth. The first plant on the land came only 0.5 billion years ago (link) i.e. 4 Billions years after the creation of Sun (i.e. the light).
So, again there is again Quranic scientific error in creation of light and creation of trees.

 

[MilSpec]

Hi,

Just a simple question---if evolution occured---then why has it stopped---or we are looking at a completed phase all around us and after a certain time---another phase would start.

It hasn't stopped. Evolution is not overnight. Natural selection takes place over a time period of thousands of years to transform species. We cannot live long enough to see it. Other transmutation and evolution in microscopic levels are visible in Bacteria's and viruses adapting and evolving which is visible.