Turkey will stop teaching evolution in schools, education ministry says

[veg]

Evolution has confict with Christianity and their 10000 year old earth dogma & general fight with Science- Muslims share none of these problems in general due to the Quran encouraging science & research; Sadly our current religious leadership is essentially no different to the ignorant clergy of dark ages Christianity.

Jews/Christians say that Adam came to the earth about 7000 years ago.

But same is true for the Muslims too. According to Authentic Prophetic Traditions, Adam indeed came somewhat between 6000 to 7000 years. Here you could read these Traditions (in Urdu):

http://web.archive.org/web/20170115...08-islam-claims-adam-came-only-6000-years-ago

Also Muslims too believe the story of apple and snake and mistake. And all Muslim Ulama are denying the Evolution (at least this part that one species could change to another through evolution). For them, Allah sent all the creatures (billions of them) directly on the earth from heavens.

To be honest, I don't think there is any different in the attitude of Christians and Muslims regarding the evolution.

No Quran didn't exactly say both of them existed at same time, stop and lets be honest here

Sorry, I don't agree with your claim a single bit.
It is not me, but all of your Ulama of past and present are telling the same thing that Quran is telling both earth and the skies existed at the same time and then Allah separated them.

How came that 100% of people (except you) got misguided after reading this verse of Quran and came to the same conclusion that I came?

You want honesty, then here it is the honesty. It is absolutely not possible to come to that conclusion that you are claiming while Quran very clearly used both the word "earth" and "skies" in the same verse that they were attached to each other, which is a proof their existence at same time.

I am not Qadiyani ............ I read whatever and whoever is logical and makes sense. As I said the ulama for you mean very different people .......... then what sort of individuals are called as Ulema in Quran.

Point is that all these Muslim Ulama believe in Quran from the depths of their hearts, they ponder in Quran whole of their life, and still they came up with wrong conclusions (according to your logic). So, if Quran is unable to even guide these Ulama, how then such a book could be claimed to be a guide for whole mankind?

1400 years ago no ordinary human or a super human could have written what is written in the book ....... you look at it from a very different angle with your head all filled with what Zakir naik has to say and all those preconceived beliefs based on books of hear say....... I look at it from a angle........ what science has been able to discover to date.

Yes, Hindus are also able to extract all kind of modern science from their stories written in their religious books.

But reality is this that there is nothing in Quran or Hindu religious books, except for primitive erroneous science. Therefore almost all Muslim Ulama got misguided by pondering upon it's verses.

 

[I.R.A]

Can we please drop this "Ulema" argument? I have already conveyed we have different definition of "Ulema" ... and personally I don't treat any sort of Ulema to be final authority and their understanding and interpretation as full and final.

You want honesty, then here it is the honesty. It is absolutely not possible to come to that conclusion that you are claiming while Quran very clearly used both the word "earth" and "skies" in the same verse that they were attached to each other, which is a proof their existence at same time.

Let me be more clear on where I stand when it comes to reading and understanding Quran. For me Quran is for all the humans to come, but it got revealed in an era when people had no advanced technology to study universe and creation of humans.

Now how can two things attached to each other can exist at the same time? And again when I say Quran hints and doesn't describe the whole creation process with details of each and every phase and process and the exact time (our days and nights) it took. It is generic, in other places in Quran it is said that "No doubt it is Us who has created both sky and Earth" ...... again no time no details on how ...... at another place it is said "If We want(ed) We will replace you with other people (no details on would those people be like us humans) and create you in some other universe that you don'y know of".

Let me know what you understand from verse 57:6 because in today's time what I understand from that verse is something like this ........ now 1400 years ago I won't expect a human to have had seen this from space, his understanding of the verse would have been different than mine.

Point is that all these Muslim Ulama believe in Quran from the depths of their hearts, they ponder in Quran whole of their life, and still they came up with wrong conclusions (according to your logic). So, if Quran is unable to even guide these Ulama, how then such a book could be claimed to be a guide for whole mankind?

Quran is guide for a person who really goes out and ponders on creation and tries understanding .......... it is not Quran's fault that people read it like a parrot and cover it with most fanciest clothes. Sitting in one room and just reading the Quran doesn't help discover new things. The so called ulema would call the gravity infidel ...... will you blame that on Quran too?

Yes, Hindus are also able to extract all kind of modern science from their stories written in their religious books.

But reality is this that there is nothing in Quran or Hindu religious books, except for primitive erroneous science. Therefore almost all Muslim Ulama got misguided by pondering upon it's verses.

I don't know about Hinduism or its scriptures ........ good if they have any source to guide them.

I haven't seen ordinary Ulema telling me that human embryo in its initial stage resembles like a leech, they didn't tell me that mountains have roots, they didn't tell me universe is ever expanding, they didn't tell me sun and moon revolve in their orbits, they didn't tell what keeps me intact on Earth ............ we both know how far they (current day ordinary ulema) are from any scientific discoveries and reasoning. They believe in Buraq and I believe that there was no mosque with the name "Al Aqsa" at that time.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Buraq comes from religion.

Evolution is just a hypothesis which is man made.

What is your point?

So is religion.

 

[ValerioAurelius]

Can we please drop this "Ulema" argument? I have already conveyed we have different definition of "Ulema" ... and personally I don't treat any sort of Ulema to be final authority and their understanding and interpretation as full and final.




Let me be more clear on where I stand when it comes to reading and understanding Quran. For me Quran is for all the humans to come, but it got revealed in an era when people had no advanced technology to study universe and creation of humans.

Now how can two things attached to each other can exist at the same time? And again when I say Quran hints and doesn't describe the whole creation process with details of each and every phase and process and the exact time (our days and nights) it took. It is generic, in other places in Quran it is said that "No doubt it is Us who has created both sky and Earth" ...... again no time no details on how ...... at another place it is said "If We want(ed) We will replace you with other people (no details on would those people be like us humans) and create you in some other universe that you don'y know of".

Let me know what you understand from verse 57:6 because in today's time what I understand from that verse is something like this ........ now 1400 years ago I won't expect a human to have had seen this from space, his understanding of the verse would have been different than mine.

Quran is guide for a person who really goes out and ponders on creation and tries understanding .......... it is not Quran's fault that people read it like a parrot and cover it with most fanciest clothes. Sitting in one room and just reading the Quran doesn't help discover new things. The so called ulema would call the gravity infidel ...... will you blame that on Quran too?



I don't know about Hinduism or its scriptures ........ good if they have any source to guide them.

I haven't seen ordinary Ulema telling me that human embryo in its initial stage resembles like a leech, they didn't tell me that mountains have roots, they didn't tell me universe is ever expanding, they didn't tell me sun and moon revolve in their orbits, they didn't tell what keeps me intact on Earth ............ we both know how far they (current day ordinary ulema) are from any scientific discoveries and reasoning. They believe in Buraq and I believe that there was no mosque with the name "Al Aqsa" at that time.

Ist this comedy?

 

[I.R.A]

Ist this comedy?

What exactly is your question?

 

[Zibago]

46 ...

Borderline child marriage.

Cheers, Doc

Look at the bright side at least you saved your group from extinction

 

[ValerioAurelius]

What exactly is your question?

The Quran like the Bible is a religious book. Nothing in it has any scientific background. The little explanation given is what was common knowledge in those times.

Our scientists in Rome knew the earth was round. They also knew the earth orbits around the sun. They even calculated the exact diameter of the earth, using shawdows at same time at different locations, to calculate the distance and angle and from there calculated the correct orbit.

A female scientist called Hypathia calculated the orbits of Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars as well as Jupiter around the sun.

 

[I.R.A]

The Quran like the Bible is a religious book. Nothing in it has any scientific background. The little explanation given is what was common knowledge in those times.

Our scientists in Rome knew the earth was round. They also knew the earth orbits around the sun. They even calculated the exact diameter of the earth, using shawdows at same time at different locations, to calculate the distance and angle and from there calculated the correct orbit.

A female scientist called Hypathia calculated the orbits of Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars as well as Jupiter around the sun.

Going by your post history ........... well it was expected that you would feel threatened and shocked. The thing is you are used to seeing Islam, Muslims and Quran in bad light. You have reduced your life to hating Muslims as sole mission I guess?

Anyways how much do you know of Quran? Apart from that it encourages its followers to kill others? That's all you know about it right? Or have you read many non Muslim researchers who are still confused how an ordinary Arab could make such accurate scientific statements 1400 years ago?

Human embryo is like a leech was common knowledge back then? Specially in Arabs of that time? They must have some good ultrasound capabilities.

Or they already knew that there are oceans / rivers that are separated from each other without their water mixing?

Or they were daily studying mountains?

Your knowledge of Quran is very limited, the other day you posted a verse that was related to War and treatment of POWs and tried portraying how bad Islam is how violent teachings of Quran are.

It's not a competition by the way ............ chill. Nobody is trying taking away anyone's achievements or accomplishments ........... but seriously don't try saying Quran stole those Roman or whatever ideas ....... that would be stupidity.

 

[ValerioAurelius]

Going by your post history ........... well it was expected that you would feel threatened and shocked. The thing is you are used to seeing Islam, Muslims and Quran in bad light. You have reduced your life to hating Muslims as sole mission I guess?

Anyways how much do you know of Quran? Apart from that it encourages its followers to kill others? That's all you know about it right? Or have you read many non Muslim researchers who are still confused how an ordinary Arab could make such accurate scientific statements 1400 years ago?

Human embryo is like a leech was common knowledge back then? Specially in Arabs of that time? They must have some good ultrasound capabilities.

Or they already knew that there are oceans / rivers that are separated from each other without their water mixing?

Or they were daily studying mountains?

Your knowledge of Quran is very limited, the other day you posted a verse that was related to War and treatment of POWs and tried portraying how bad Islam is how violent teachings of Quran are.

It's not a competition by the way ............ chill. Nobody is trying taking away anyone's achievements or accomplishments ........... but seriously don't try saying Quran stole those Roman or whatever ideas ....... that would be stupidity.

There is not a single accurate statement in it. Its a religious book. This and nothing else.

And yes, it was known how a human embyro formed. Thats known since old egyptian times. How you thik mummification was done? Bodies were opened. In rome bodies were opened as well and anatomical studies performed.

And of course they knew rivers and oceans dont mix water. You can see that where the Tiber flows into the Med. People knew freshwater has less density than salt water and this creates a barrier. It was common knowledge.

Too be honest whats written in there is some basic concepts he propably heared from hear say. His area was part of persian empire, which knew as much as our Empire. It was common knowledge back then.

 

[war&peace]

At this age you are driving away all feminine attention you can get

How do you know?

 

[The Sandman]

It is taught not just in the 9th grade. Its easy to pick up one paragraph and use it to abuse pakistan but here is the kicker.

Nearly ever school has placed oxford books from 3-4 to 8th and those Oxford books contain evolution and no I am not talking about snazzy private schools. Even schools made in a house have this. I often joke that " kitabein oxford ki aur teachers woh jin ko English ka lafz nahi ata"

Then evolution is taught in biology greatly in matric and Cambridge does not have Punjab textbook books and they are taught evolution as well.

In fact I remember monthly assessments which had questions on evolution.

In fact now that I remember we studied evolution extensively in sixth. All the human forms with time, their dates and differences.

So it is taught and taught well.

@Mian Babban @The Sandman @Hell hound

TBH i don't remember i studied till 8th grade in Pakistan don't remember if we studied evolution ( i think we did memory's all fuzzy now) or not but obv there was a subject of Science and i kinda had mixed feelings about it because it contained things like water rainfalls (it was boring cuz i had to rattafy the whole paragraphs ) anyway i always gets confused when it comes to evolution man our religion says something and than science says something else (but with hard evidence) don't know... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think i will do some more self study on as to what Quran has to say on about it.

 

[I.R.A]

Come on please ........ how much ancient people knew? Obviously they knew a lot but how much it got transferred directly from them to us? .......... we are not talking about civilizations or empires we are talking about how an illiterate person living in a Bedouin culture could make these statements?

There is not a single accurate statement in it. Its a religious book. This and nothing else.

That's your bias ............. can't help you overcome it. Do read people (scientific people) who do research on Quran's verses and what are their findings.

And yes, it was known how a human embyro formed. Thats known since old egyptian times. How you thik mummification was done? Bodies were opened. In rome bodies were opened as well and anatomical studies performed.

So you are telling me that Egyptians were mummifying pregnant women? Come on please ....... and why don't we see mummies of Arabs? If the knowledge was somehow stolen or shared why it was partial why not the whole thing? And I am not claiming that people in other part of the world may have stopped making discoveries .....

And of course they knew rivers and oceans dont mix water. You can see that where the Tiber flows into the Med. People knew freshwater has less density than salt water and this creates a barrier. It was common knowledge.

Everything was common knowledge ....... the recent scientists are busy wasting their time, everything had already been discovered.

Too be honest whats written in there is some basic concepts he propably heared from hear say. His area was part of persian empire, which knew as much as our Empire. It was common knowledge back then.

Romans and Persians were superior, militarily and were super powers of their times but none of them practically ruled Arab land ...... they always thought of it as desert and its inhabitants backward unless when they really got threatened by the message and revolution it had brought in those backward people. Post revolution .... The results are part of history.

Anyways the topic is related to evolution ............ so it would be nice of you people to bring something from Quran that opposes evolution and different stages of human life on this Earth.

 

[litman]

Ok, then please prove me wrong and tell us which mistake did I make about the Mutashabeh Verse. And also tell me why your Ulama didn't declare it a Mutashabeh verse and why they kept on extracting quranic science from it? Also tell us what was the PURPOSE and WISDOM was behind this Mutashabeh verse while describing about the creation of universe? Please also tell us why the Prophet Muhammad didn't tell in the Hadith that these verses of Quran regarding creation of world are Mutashabeh?



The fossil record is not "assumption", but indirect Scientific FACT.
And there exist not even a single Proof against the theory of evolution.

Please also note that religious community don't even have the "assumptions" to answer the questions regarding the fossil records. They have absolutely nothing, except to deny the evolution in name of Direct Proof.



Please understand, the question of evolution is not Directly linked to the creation of universe and life. Even if we don't know how the life started, but still we have the ample proofs of evolution which occurred later in the living things.




dont have time to explain Quran here to keyboard warrior. so gud bye.

a person who cant understand difference between fact and theory is not a student of science. theory of evolution means "theory" of evolution and not "fact" of evolution. you dont even know the basics of scientific terms. may be in your school they have been using the term fact of evolution while in most of the books it is still the "theory" of evolution. now dont start quoting some of your school books who claim it a fact of evolution . theory means something or lower degree then a fact, law or principle.
as far as mutashbiha ayats are concerned i really dont want to write about it here as Quran instructs not to waste time with stubborn people. just say greetings to them and move on but still i have some time to waste here with an arrogant stubborn person. Quran consists of two types of ayats . the main bulk of the Quran are ayats muhkamat which means ayats which are plain and simple. any scholar can give details about such ayats. these verses form the basics of Quran and they are sufficient to make a person understand everything about his religion which he needs. complete set of instructions are given in these ayats. now Quran says itself that there are some other ayats which are mutashabihat which means ayats which are not plain and clear and a learned scholar can give his interpretation and not the definite "fatwa" or ruling. many scholars may give different interpretation to such ayats. these are intelligent assumptions and muslims are not bound to accept such interpretations of any particular scholar. the purpose of ayat mutashbihat are many. first they make muslims to use their brains and think about Quran and their surroundings. second they promote the idea of reasoning among muslims. third they make muslims to study science, history and escatology to unveil the secrets hidden in these ayats. fourth and the most imp which Quran itself says that these ayats are a test to ones faith. those who have stubbornness in their heart will only concentrate on these ayats and ask questions like "what Allah means by these ayats?" they get lost in these verses and forget the message. you are a perfect example of this that's why i wrote in the beginning that i am wasting my time here while arguing with you. many of ayats which were among the mutashbihat at the time of the Prophet Muhammad SAW are now mukamat . over the period of time history unveiled some of the secrets in these ayats and science also unveiled some of the ayats like those related to embryology.
finding mistakes and errors in Quran is nothing new. it simply means that some humans believe that this book is not from God rather it is written by a man . how can a God who made a perfect universe can make errors in a book. it's impossible. but Quran has one simple challenge to all such people . if you think this is not from God then make a chapter similar to any chapter in Quran .Quran even goes further by saying that bring all humans and "jinns" to your help. so this challenge is for you as well. make a chapter similar to Quran. people have tried it in past and failed. some accepted islam after failing the challenge while others were still stubborn.
i think i have wasted my time enough. so i wont be smashing my head against the wall anymore by replying to your any new illogical comment. BYE

 

[ValerioAurelius]

Come on please ........ how much ancient people knew? Obviously they knew a lot but how much it got transferred directly from them to us? .......... we are not talking about civilizations or empires we are talking about how an illiterate person living in a Bedouin culture could make these statements?



That's your bias ............. can't help you overcome it. Do read people (scientific people) who do research on Quran's verses and what are their findings.



So you are telling me that Egyptians were mummifying pregnant women? Come on please ....... and why don't we see mummies of Arabs? If the knowledge was somehow stolen or shared why it was partial why not the whole thing? And I am not claiming that people in other part of the world may have stopped making discoveries .....



Everything was common knowledge ....... the recent scientists are busy wasting their time, everything had already been discovered.



Romans and Persians were superior, militarily and were super powers of their times but none of them practically ruled Arab land ...... they always thought of it as desert and its inhabitants backward unless when they really got threatened by the message and revolution it had brought in those backward people. Post revolution .... The results are part of history.

Anyways the topic is related to evolution ............ so it would be nice of you people to bring something from Quran that opposes evolution and different stages of human life on this Earth.

Of course egyptians mummified pregnant women, they even mummified embryos. Two were found in Tut Anch Amuns tomb. If a person died it had to be mummified for religious reasons.

The knowledge was wide spread. People travelled alot. How you think roman architecture made it down to Jordan and Saudi Arabia? There was trade and exchange.

a person who cant understand difference between fact and theory is not a student of science. theory of evolution means "theory" of evolution and not "fact" of evolution. you dont even know the basics of scientific terms. may be in your school they have been using the term fact of evolution while in most of the books it is still the "theory" of evolution. now dont start quoting some of your school books who claim it a fact of evolution . theory means something or lower degree then a fact, law or principle.
as far as mutashbiha ayats are concerned i really dont want to write about it here as Quran instructs not to waste time with stubborn people. just say greetings to them and move on but still i have some time to waste here with an arrogant stubborn person. Quran consists of two types of ayats . the main bulk of the Quran are ayats muhkamat which means ayats which are plain and simple. any scholar can give details about such ayats. these verses form the basics of Quran and they are sufficient to make a person understand everything about his religion which he needs. complete set of instructions are given in these ayats. now Quran says itself that there are some other ayats which are mutashabihat which means ayats which are not plain and clear and a learned scholar can give his interpretation and not the definite "fatwa" or ruling. many scholars may give different interpretation to such ayats. these are intelligent assumptions and muslims are not bound to accept such interpretations of any particular scholar. the purpose of ayat mutashbihat are many. first they make muslims to use their brains and think about Quran and their surroundings. second they promote the idea of reasoning among muslims. third they make muslims to study science, history and escatology to unveil the secrets hidden in these ayats. fourth and the most imp which Quran itself says that these ayats are a test to ones faith. those who have stubbornness in their heart will only concentrate on these ayats and ask questions like "what Allah means by these ayats?" they get lost in these verses and forget the message. you are a perfect example of this that's why i wrote in the beginning that i am wasting my time here while arguing with you.
finding mistakes and errors in Quran is nothing new. it simply means that some humans believe that this book is not from God rather it is written by a man . how can a God who made a perfect universe can make errors in a book. it's impossible. but Quran has one simple challenge to all such people . if you think this is not from God then make a chapter similar to any chapter in Quran .Quran even goes further by saying that bring all humans and "jinns" to your help. so this challenge is for you as well. make a chapter similar to Quran. people have tried it in past and failed. some accepted islam after failing the challenge while others were still stubborn.
i think i have wasted my time enough. so i wont be smashing my head against the wall anymore by replying to your any new illogical comment. BYE

Gravity too is just a theory. Would you jump down a cliff? Evolution is a proven as Gravity.

 

[litman]

Of course egyptians mummified pregnant women, they even mummified embryos. Two were found in Tut Anch Amuns tomb. If a person died it had to be mummified for religious reasons.

The knowledge was wide spread. People travelled alot. How you think roman architecture made it down to Jordan and Saudi Arabia? There was trade and exchange.



Gravity too is just a theory. Would you jump down a cliff? Evolution is a proven as Gravity.

it's law of gravity and not "theory"of gravity.