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Turkey soon to decide who wins the multibillion dollar contract.

Why would you have one launcher in a air defense system. That doesn't make much sense. Countries buy these to set up networks over certain areas not just one.



Your speculation. I believe they are offering full TOT because of the contract involved. China won't win if full TOT is not involved i can almost guarantee that. Because that would mean china is trying to compete with the U.S. at the same game. Turkey would just pick up the PAC-3 with no TOT if that was the case. Unless your saying China has surpassed the U.S. in SAMs:lol:




During testing it intercepted a wide range of targets at different speeds and altitudes without error. So i am inclined to disagree that its interception ability is doubtful. Unless you want to provide info otherwise
* 8 April 1997: interception of a C22 target simulating a subsonic antiship missile, flying at 10 metres, at a distance of 7 kilometres.
* 23 May 1997: Direct impact on an Exocet anti-ship missile of the first generation, at 9 kilometres, to protect a distant ship (7 kilometres).
* 13 November 1997: interception of a C22 target in very low flight in a strong countermeasures environment. In this test, the Aster was not armed with its military warhead so that the distance between the Aster and the target could be recorded. The C22 was recovered bearing two strong cuts due to the fins of the Aster missile.
* 30 December 1997: Interception of a live C22 target by an Aster 30 at a distance of 30 kilometres, an altitude of 11,000 metres, and a speed of 900 km/h. The Aster climbed up to 15,000 metres before falling on the target at a speed of 2880 km/h. The closest distance between the Aster and the C22 was four metres.
* 29 June 2001 : Interception of a Arabel missile in low altitude, in less than five seconds.
* In 2001 : Interception by the Aster 15 of a target simulating an aircraft flying at Mach-1 at an altitude of 100 metres.
* In 2002-2003 : Trial of Aster 15 from Sylver A43 launcher with EMPAR and SAAM-it system onboard Italian experimental ship Carabiniere F 581
* In 2004-2005 : Trial of Aster 30 from Sylver A50 launcher with EMPAR and PAAMS(E) system onboard Italian experimental ship Carabiniere F 581
* On 3 April 2008, the Republic of Singapore Navy frigate RSS Intrepid shot down an aerial drone off the French port of Toulon during an exercise.



1. Your first question

Because Chinese HQ-9A just like Russian S-300PMU2 has indepent radar and luncher for each unit. One Battery has 12 units. So what is wrong? What does not make sense?

All these independet unit under each battery are integrated into a whole system each syste consists of 12 lunchers so if one unit got taken out others can still operate with out any problem.


2. Your second Question.

Yes, I think China supassed USA in SAMs. In fact Russia has much better SAM than USA. This is due to Cold War Doctrione. In the Cold war Russia is aware that it can not match USA air power, especially after SR-71 and U-2 incidents, USSR realized that its air defence is outdated in 1960 and needs vast upgrade. This is why S-300 was developed in 1970's and USSR spend SO MUCH MONEY on it that it is far better than ANY thing the west has. China bought S-300PMU2 S-300PMU1 and even co-develped S-400 with Russia provided majority of the funding of the S-400 program.

On the other hand USA spends most of its money on offence air crafts like B-1, B-2, F-117, F-15E. In fact US needs little air defence from SAMs because no other country can even REACH US homeland!!

How come you dont know this??????????? :p:lol::lol:

3. Your last question.

Oh, all the exampels you provided are low speed cruise missile, I dont even see a ballastic missile there lol.:lol::lol:
Even if Aster 30 can intercept ballistic missiles, it is only capalbe of intercepting low tech slow( under March 6) ballistic missles like the SCUD missile, which can not even perform in flight manuvers making it easy to intercept. I would LOVE to see how it square up againt DF-21. On the other hand Chinese tested HQ-9B against DF-21C, the same ballistic missile used for ASBM for US carriers and HQ-9B had: one missile, 40% rate of success. Two missiles 70% rate of success, 3 missiles over 90% rate of success. :cheers:

DF-21 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

DF-21C the worlds only ASBM( Anti Ship Ballstic missile) and Anti satalite ballastic missiel. Whith accuracy of a cruise missile and speed over March 12. Capable of in flight manuver such as the S shape manuver. Happy now??

Last. Hey Jigs take it easy. I am not here to make you mad, just a informer. :)
 
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why not s-500?
i would go russian since they are the best in sam.
but chinese?
i dont know much about their sams but meh..
i wouldn't go european.

but yea.. this decision will be delayed AIGAN.
trust me
 
we shouldnt only decide in regards to the quality of the SAM..we should take into account that how much we can gain from the project..im sure the decision-makers is considering all the aspects...
 
lol, S-500 does not exist. It is still on paper. :)

ya i know but if Turkey makes decision then the systems will be delivired at the time the a-500 is operational.

that sentence failed.

---------- Post added at 10:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 PM ----------

we shouldnt only decide in regards to the quality of the SAM..we should take into account that how much we can gain from the project..im sure the decision-makers is considering all the aspects...

ofcourse.
but if someone dont give us technology then dont bother considiring it.
 
we shouldnt only decide in regards to the quality of the SAM..we should take into account that how much we can gain from the project..im sure the decision-makers is considering all the aspects...



If Turkey wants a SAM that can truely intercept Ballistic missile then the HQ-9A and S-300V is the best option.

The HQ-9A, not only can down any aircraft(F-15, F-16, Rafele, EF-2000, SU-30) over 180KM with high accuracy. Also has good anti-ballatistic missile capability. It can really intercept Ballastic missiles like SCUD, DF-5, DF-15 with around 30% success rate with a single shot.

However, if Turkey just wants ToT, meaning that Turkey wants itself to produce world class SAM then perhaps the Aster 30. BUT, even if Turkey got ToT from Aster 30, do you honest belive that Turkey can produce some thing like S-400?

Again, dont get mad at me, I am just an informer.
 
isn't 30% a bit low? even with single shot?
patriot did it way better in middle east.
and why cant turkey make world class sam with tech from aster 30?
but it doesn't has to be 1 huge step.
 
ofcourse.
but if someone dont give us technology then dont bother considiring it.

im sure some of them will offer it in order to compete with its stronger rivals.Then,we will be able to produce our own SAMs:azn:
 
actually 2 units of pac3 for antiballistic 2units of s400 for long range air cover would be best for us.but we need technology transfer so must chose only one.but even 4 s-400 doesnt cover all the turkish airzone.we need at least 10 s-400 for full umbrella
 
ya i know but if Turkey makes decision then the systems will be delivired at the time the a-500 is operational.

that sentence failed.

---------- Post added at 10:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 PM ----------



ofcourse.
but if someone dont give us technology then dont bother considiring it.



Dude, Turkey will NOT be able to see S-500 unless it buys S-300 first. Just like Chinese will not give Turkey HQ-9B unless HQ-9A is purchased. :)
 
isn't 30% a bit low? even with single shot?
patriot did it way better in middle east.
and why cant turkey make world class sam with tech from aster 30?
but it doesn't has to be 1 huge step.


lol, LOW??????? With a single SHOT??

Patriot did it "way better"???????!!!! Yeah it did way better with barely 50% rate of success with 8 shots!!!!! In fact with over 20 Batteries of PAC-2 deployed in 1991, 3 SCUDs penetrated and kill over 100 Marianes!!! In fact PAC-2 had a mere 10% success rate for a single SHOT!! Read this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scud#Scud_attacks

Do you know how hard is it to shot a bullet with another gun?? Bullet travels at March 3 which is SO SO SO slow compare with DF-21 which is well over March 11!!!

Ballistic Missiles are VERY HARD to intercept because they are re-entry vechales, especially the DF-21D it can performe re-entry manuver meaning that it is not a fixed tragetory!

30% per shot is very high already, if you fire 3 shots at it you will get about 80% rate of success from HQ-9A intercepting DF-21C!!!!!!

HQ-9B has over 90% rate of success for 3 shots!

On the other hand Aster 30 NEVER EVER intercepted a ballastic missile, not in real life not even in tests!!!
 
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really? how about that patriot? i mean its not ballistic missiles they intercepted but still.
and how can you see these percentages?
plus how about succes rate hit of DF21D
 

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