Turkey needs middle-range bombers and long-range stealth cruise missiles

[Karimulkhan Shatanarey]

Recently I'm focusing on the geopolitical structure in ME and find out the importance of Turkey's role. Turkey has the strongest military forces in ME and TAF plays as the core part.

But we can see the backbone of TAF is 240 F-16s and 200+ F-4s, both of which lacks long-range-strike ability and cannot carry massive payloads, though TAF has KC-135s but it won't help much. In the future Turkey may get F-35s and TFXs but both of which will also face the same problem.

Great power needs long-range strike ability, namely long-range ballistic missiles or long-range strategic bombers with long-range cruise missiles. We can see P5 and India has the ability to launch ICBMs, Iran and North Korea has 3000+km missiles, and Saudi bought middle-range ballistic missiles from China, and their missiles have played important roles in their defense. Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons and ICBMs, also its Tu-160s, Tu-95s bombers and KH-55 missiles, and now Russia can f@ck Ukraine in every angle without considering being attacked.

Back to last year's Turkey-Russia tensions, though Turkey could defend its airfield with TAF, but virtually Turkey couldn't threat Russia's core part, while Russia had multiple methods to destroy Istanbul thousands miles away.

Now since Turkey is in US camp it's unrealistic to develop nuclear ability, ballistic missiles and intercontinent-range giant bombers, so middle-range bombers like Russian Tu-26, French Mirage-IV or Chinese H-6K is perfect for Turkey ----- about 1500-2500km(with KC-135 the range can be extended to 3000+) battle radius, 10-15 tons' payload and to some extent stealth ability, with a Tomahawk or Klub-like, 1000-2000km stealth cruise missile, then Turkey can has an attack range of 4000-5000km, covering most of its potential enemies including whole Europe, ME, Russia and part of China.

 

[DJ_Viper]

Recently I'm focusing on the geopolitical structure in ME and find out the importance of Turkey's role. Turkey has the strongest military forces in ME and TAF plays as the core part.

But we can see the backbone of TAF is 240 F-16s and 200+ F-4s, both of which lacks long-range-strike ability and cannot carry massive payloads, though TAF has KC-135s but it won't help much. In the future Turkey may get F-35s and TFXs but both of which will also face the same problem.

Great power needs long-range strike ability, namely long-range ballistic missiles or long-range strategic bombers with long-range cruise missiles. We can see P5 and India has the ability to launch ICBMs, Iran and North Korea has 3000+km missiles, and Saudi bought middle-range ballistic missiles from China, and their missiles have played important roles in their defense. Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons and ICBMs, also its Tu-160s, Tu-95s bombers and KH-55 missiles, and now Russia can f@ck Ukraine in every angle without considering being attacked.

Back to last year's Turkey-Russia tensions, though Turkey could defend its airfield with TAF, but virtually Turkey couldn't threat Russia's core part, while Russia had multiple methods to destroy Istanbul thousands miles away.

Now since Turkey is in US camp it's unrealistic to develop nuclear ability, ballistic missiles and intercontinent-range giant bombers, so middle-range bombers like Russian Tu-26, French Mirage-IV or Chinese H-6K is perfect for Turkey ----- about 1500-2500km(with KC-135 the range can be extended to 3000+) battle radius, 10-15 tons' payload and to some extent stealth ability, with a Tomahawk or Klub-like, 1000-2000km stealth cruise missile, then Turkey can has an attack range of 4000-5000km, covering most of its potential enemies including whole Europe, ME, Russia and part of China.

You wrote this lengthy post without understanding the basics components of a defense strategy? In fact, "the first component", i.e. the "Threat Perception"..? Who are Turkey's enemies? Turkey is in the US block, a member of NATO, with growing ties with Russia and China, and Israel. The only beef it has is with Greece (next door and an Island nation) and Syria on the other side. So why spend the money on expensive bombers that it would never use?

Also, I don't know how much you know about the F-4!! The Phantom can hold 8 TONS of weapons, both in an interceptor and bomber roles. I think that this line by itself answers your question. Its performance with upgraded avionics and weapons is not to far from today's SU-30 (remember I used the term upgraded for Phantom). You should use Wiki or other sources, before posting stuff to gain some knowledge on the topic.

" The McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II[N 1] is a tandem two-seat, twin-engine, all-weather, long-range supersonic jet interceptor aircraft/fighter-bomber originally developed for the United States Navy by McDonnell Aircraft.[1] It first entered service in 1960 with the U.S. Navy. Proving highly adaptable, it was also adopted by the U.S. Marine Corps and the U.S. Air Force, and by the mid-1960s had become a major part of their respective air wings.[2]

The Phantom is a large fighter with a top speed of over Mach 2.2. It can carry more than 18,000 pounds (8,400 kg) of weapons on nine external hardpoints, including air-to-air missiles, air-to-ground missiles, and various bombs."

 

[Babur Han]

To have this Capabillity there is some importance for Turkey to Support Geopolittics in Central/south Asia, sub saharan Africa and the western Maghreb.

 

[brokk]

Recently I'm focusing on the geopolitical structure in ME and find out the importance of Turkey's role. Turkey has the strongest military forces in ME and TAF plays as the core part.

But we can see the backbone of TAF is 240 F-16s and 200+ F-4s, both of which lacks long-range-strike ability and cannot carry massive payloads, though TAF has KC-135s but it won't help much. In the future Turkey may get F-35s and TFXs but both of which will also face the same problem.

Great power needs long-range strike ability, namely long-range ballistic missiles or long-range strategic bombers with long-range cruise missiles. We can see P5 and India has the ability to launch ICBMs, Iran and North Korea has 3000+km missiles, and Saudi bought middle-range ballistic missiles from China, and their missiles have played important roles in their defense. Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons and ICBMs, also its Tu-160s, Tu-95s bombers and KH-55 missiles, and now Russia can f@ck Ukraine in every angle without considering being attacked.

Back to last year's Turkey-Russia tensions, though Turkey could defend its airfield with TAF, but virtually Turkey couldn't threat Russia's core part, while Russia had multiple methods to destroy Istanbul thousands miles away.

Now since Turkey is in US camp it's unrealistic to develop nuclear ability, ballistic missiles and intercontinent-range giant bombers, so middle-range bombers like Russian Tu-26, French Mirage-IV or Chinese H-6K is perfect for Turkey ----- about 1500-2500km(with KC-135 the range can be extended to 3000+) battle radius, 10-15 tons' payload and to some extent stealth ability, with a Tomahawk or Klub-like, 1000-2000km stealth cruise missile, then Turkey can has an attack range of 4000-5000km, covering most of its potential enemies including whole Europe, ME, Russia and part of China.

Well, Turkey will be producing small aircraft carriers (LHD's - Juan Carlos Class) (scheduled for 2021), It has a drone program I think bomber drone technology will replace those giant bombers eventually... so don't know about that.. but Turkey has already developed and is in the process of developing long-range versions of the Stand-off-missle (SOM) which is a next-generation high precision cruise missile, it will get versions with ranges 1500km then 2500km eventually.
I think the logical progression after developing long range air defense rockets etc, is going to be long range ballistic missiles, as Turkey has also begun a space program that will eventually launch the countries satellites into orbit from Turkey.

 

[Karimulkhan Shatanarey]

You wrote this lengthy post without understanding the basics components of a defense strategy? In fact, "the first component", i.e. the "Threat Perception"..? Who are Turkey's enemies? Turkey is in the US block, a member of NATO, with growing ties with Russia and China, and Israel. The only beef it has is with Greece (next door and an Island nation) and Syria on the other side. So why spend the money on expensive bombers that it would never use?

Also, I don't know how much you know about the F-4!! The Phantom can hold 8 TONS of weapons, both in an interceptor and bomber roles. I think that this line by itself answers your question. Its performance with upgraded avionics and weapons is not to far from today's SU-30 (remember I used the term upgraded for Phantom). You should use Wiki or other sources, before posting stuff to gain some knowledge on the topic.

" The McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II[N 1] is a tandem two-seat, twin-engine, all-weather, long-range supersonic jet interceptor aircraft/fighter-bomber originally developed for the United States Navy by McDonnell Aircraft.[1] It first entered service in 1960 with the U.S. Navy. Proving highly adaptable, it was also adopted by the U.S. Marine Corps and the U.S. Air Force, and by the mid-1960s had become a major part of their respective air wings.[2]

The Phantom is a large fighter with a top speed of over Mach 2.2. It can carry more than 18,000 pounds (8,400 kg) of weapons on nine external hardpoints, including air-to-air missiles, air-to-ground missiles, and various bombs."

Well well, a nation can't live without considering every bad situation. Turkey is in US bloc, so what? Wasn't it America that wanted to topple Turkey's regime? And who saved Erdogan? Putin? Then back to last year I remember Russia even threatened to nuke Turkey right? In international politics there's no friends, especially such "friend" like America. My topic here is to discuss what will it need if Turkey want to revive its status in the world like Ottoman used to be, and certainly strategic strike ability is indispensable.

You mentioned F-4 that can carry 8 tons or can reach mach 2.2 blah blah, but can F-4 carrying some bombs to reach mach 2.2? Or carry 8 tons of weapons to reach even 500km battle radius? Or can it use some latest weapons like SDB or JDAM? Long range cruise missiles are big guys, can F-4 or F-16 carry them? You know F-4 is a 60s old guy so why not replace them with new killers? If F-35 can make everything done why USAF needs money-burning B-52, B-1B and B-2 and future B-21?

Reply with rationality please.

To have this Capabillity there is some importance for Turkey to Support Geopolittics in Central/south Asia, sub saharan Africa and the western Maghreb.

Turkey's influence in ME now is significant apparently, and in Middle Asia with pan-turkism spreading Turkey's influence is also increasing there, also in Northern Africa Turkey is a player, not evert country has such a influence. Everyone knows Erdogan wants to revive Ottoman Empire, but he can't achieve this goal only with some M-60s or F-16s.

Well, Turkey will be producing small aircraft carriers (LHD's - Juan Carlos Class) (scheduled for 2021), It has a drone program I think bomber drone technology will replace those giant bombers eventually... so don't know about that.. but Turkey has already developed and is in the process of developing long-range versions of the Stand-off-missle (SOM) which is a next-generation high precision cruise missile, it will get versions with ranges 1500km then 2500km eventually.
I think the logical progression after developing long range air defense rockets etc, is going to be long range ballistic missiles, as Turkey has also begun a space program that will eventually launch the countries satellites into orbit from Turkey.

Drones cannot replace manned aircrafts. Drones is low in payload, easy to be hacked or disturbed so drones is not reliable to be backbones of the air force, at least not now.

Long-range cruise missiles is so big and long, making it hard for ordinary fighters to carry. US uses B-series, Russia uses Tu-series and China uses its H-6 to carry such big missiles, plus bombers have a much longer battle radius. I don't know what SOM looks like but if you want to launch big missiles in sky you need true bombers.

 

[Babur Han]

For example Turkey support Morocco in the western Sahara Issue diplomaticly. When it comes to a Conflict Turkey can not give any Military Support to Morocco. Polisario would even laugh about some Cruise Missiles fired from Ships and Submarines. Bombers could press more Pressure and we not urgently rely to deploy tactical Fighters elsewere.

 

[Karimulkhan Shatanarey]

For example Turkey support Morocco in the western Sahara Issue diplomaticly. When it comes to a Conflict Turkey can not give any Military Support to Morocco. Polisario would even laugh about some Cruise Missiles fired from Ships and Submarines. Bombers could press more Pressure and we not urgently rely to deploy tactical Fighters elsewere.

Bombers roaring in the sky is the best propaganda. Russians like to use bombers to circle other nations like Britain and Japan and sometimes even US, and it is really an effective way to show your will.

 

[Constantinople]

Guys are u serious when u talk about allies and US is our friend and we are in Nato ??they didnt give turkey an air defence...US is not friend with any country in the world just UK and israel...France in Nato and they have balistic missile with range 10km !!
Its a strategic weapon like nuke weapon ...every country should think more than 10 times before attack you...

 

[brokk]

Drones cannot replace manned aircrafts. Drones is low in payload, easy to be hacked or disturbed so drones is not reliable to be backbones of the air force, at least not now.

Long-range cruise missiles is so big and long, making it hard for ordinary fighters to carry. US uses B-series, Russia uses Tu-series and China uses its H-6 to carry such big missiles, plus bombers have a much longer battle radius. I don't know what SOM looks like but if you want to launch big missiles in sky you need true bombers.

Here is a Link for info on SOM, there is also a thread here on this forum, the SOM-J variant will launch from F-35's, of course this doesn't have too long a range, what the long range one will look like we shall see probably around 2018.

The future in military aviation is in pilot-less aircraft, as pilots break long before the airplane does, they have needs, and systems for them along with themselves increase aircraft weight too much and their education costs too much. Drones do scale, and would probably be made in the future that stay up for extremely extended periods of time...I think even my generation is expert at computer simulations enough to fly these things. Large chunky bombers that can be blown out of the sky with cheapo-rockets will eventually go obsolete as did the dreadnought class battleships of WW2... there are interesting projects going on with drones, an example is the LCASD program

Turkey doesn't really need to invest into long-range bombers at the moment, it needs multi-role combat aircraft and it has them, has invested into the F35's and is working on a indigenous plane (TAI TFX) of its own.

 

[Kebapçı Erhan]

The guy is right, hopefully our 1500km cruise missiles and 2500km cruise missiles are completed soon. The project started years ago.

Once we put those babies on Istanbul class frigate we will have better long range strike capabilities aswell.

 

[Timur]

we need 500 km cruise missle for f16.. at least 250km

 

[Successwill]

For the Ottoman Empire, it took 150 years to conquer Istanbul..And Türkiye has not yet seen her centenial. So "time" will solve all the problems..

 

[Neptune]

Recently I'm focusing on the geopolitical structure in ME and find out the importance of Turkey's role. Turkey has the strongest military forces in ME and TAF plays as the core part.

But we can see the backbone of TAF is 240 F-16s and 200+ F-4s, both of which lacks long-range-strike ability and cannot carry massive payloads, though TAF has KC-135s but it won't help much. In the future Turkey may get F-35s and TFXs but both of which will also face the same problem.

Great power needs long-range strike ability, namely long-range ballistic missiles or long-range strategic bombers with long-range cruise missiles. We can see P5 and India has the ability to launch ICBMs, Iran and North Korea has 3000+km missiles, and Saudi bought middle-range ballistic missiles from China, and their missiles have played important roles in their defense. Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons and ICBMs, also its Tu-160s, Tu-95s bombers and KH-55 missiles, and now Russia can f@ck Ukraine in every angle without considering being attacked.

Back to last year's Turkey-Russia tensions, though Turkey could defend its airfield with TAF, but virtually Turkey couldn't threat Russia's core part, while Russia had multiple methods to destroy Istanbul thousands miles away.

Now since Turkey is in US camp it's unrealistic to develop nuclear ability, ballistic missiles and intercontinent-range giant bombers, so middle-range bombers like Russian Tu-26, French Mirage-IV or Chinese H-6K is perfect for Turkey ----- about 1500-2500km(with KC-135 the range can be extended to 3000+) battle radius, 10-15 tons' payload and to some extent stealth ability, with a Tomahawk or Klub-like, 1000-2000km stealth cruise missile, then Turkey can has an attack range of 4000-5000km, covering most of its potential enemies including whole Europe, ME, Russia and part of China.

I believe @cabatli_53 can make a brief summary about Turkish strategic anti-surface missile programs.

But what I wonder is perhaps we should ask ourselves that let's assume we funded these missiles. Who will we use them against?

The Navy have openly stated that they will induct P-8 Poseidon long range ASW/MPA aircraft.

Gezgin LACM with a 1000+ km is under development

SOM probably have reached 300-500km in launch tests

Nuclear umbrella is under modernization program as well. US plans to modernize its nuclear arsenal in Europe.

We can clearly expect that considering the F-35 purchase, the B-61 nuclear bombs deployed in Incirlik AB will receive Mod 12 upgrade. At 2015, first missile test for B61-12 was conducted. Therefore nuclear umbrella is also under modernization.

What more good use we will have if we add medium to long range bombers into our inventory? I doubt anyone will be willing to sell such aircraft to anyone. For our requirements it must be stealthy too so noone will sell it to anyone. So we must develop it ourselves. You're talking about a program that may cost at least 6-7 billion dollars with that money you can do a lot of better things if not modernize the enormously large mechanized divisions of the army.

 

[Successwill]

look at him, he still relies on US umbrella.. How pathetic! So Russia is the real threat? And america is friend?

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Recently I'm focusing on the geopolitical structure in ME and find out the importance of Turkey's role. Turkey has the strongest military forces in ME and TAF plays as the core part.

But we can see the backbone of TAF is 240 F-16s and 200+ F-4s, both of which lacks long-range-strike ability and cannot carry massive payloads, though TAF has KC-135s but it won't help much. In the future Turkey may get F-35s and TFXs but both of which will also face the same problem.

Great power needs long-range strike ability, namely long-range ballistic missiles or long-range strategic bombers with long-range cruise missiles. We can see P5 and India has the ability to launch ICBMs, Iran and North Korea has 3000+km missiles, and Saudi bought middle-range ballistic missiles from China, and their missiles have played important roles in their defense. Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons and ICBMs, also its Tu-160s, Tu-95s bombers and KH-55 missiles, and now Russia can f@ck Ukraine in every angle without considering being attacked.

Back to last year's Turkey-Russia tensions, though Turkey could defend its airfield with TAF, but virtually Turkey couldn't threat Russia's core part, while Russia had multiple methods to destroy Istanbul thousands miles away.

Now since Turkey is in US camp it's unrealistic to develop nuclear ability, ballistic missiles and intercontinent-range giant bombers, so middle-range bombers like Russian Tu-26, French Mirage-IV or Chinese H-6K is perfect for Turkey ----- about 1500-2500km(with KC-135 the range can be extended to 3000+) battle radius, 10-15 tons' payload and to some extent stealth ability, with a Tomahawk or Klub-like, 1000-2000km stealth cruise missile, then Turkey can has an attack range of 4000-5000km, covering most of its potential enemies including whole Europe, ME, Russia and part of China.

Are you serious or in attempt for some kind of baiting?