Turkey cancels visit by Swedish minister as planned protests stoke tension

[Foinikas]

This racist islamaphobic psychopath is not the problem. The problem is that these highly professional designed hate crimes take place under the protection of the law enforcement agencies of western states and are defended as freedom of thought. When we explain with examples that this is actually only the case in cases of Islam and Islam-related phenomena, and that in other cases the judicial systems of these countries have acted in the opposite direction in similar cases, these people play dumb and try to steer the debate in different directions.

There's three problems:

1.People like him who actually do that.
2.The extreme liberalism in Western societies that considers every dumb thing as "freedom of expression".
3.Muslims who often react violently every time somebody "offends" them or offends them.

 

[Bilal9]

This racist islamaphobic psychopath is not the problem. The problem is that these highly professional designed hate crimes take place under the protection of the law enforcement agencies of western states and are defended as freedom of thought. When we explain with examples that this is actually only the case in cases of Islam and Islam-related phenomena, and that in other cases the judicial systems of these countries have acted in the opposite direction in similar cases, these people play dumb and try to steer the debate in different directions.

I am not in a position to teach history here, but what I want to say is that we don't deserve this. No faith group or identity in the world deserves this disrespect, but it is especially sad that the Dutch and Danes turn a blind eye to such provocations against Muslims.

I would like to share a small anecdote with you: The Dutch, who today desecrate the Holy Quran, have quickly forgotten that when they rebelled against Spain in 1568, they made a medallion inspired by the crescent moon on the Turkish flag, which they wore on their hats with the inscription "Be a Turk Instead of a Papist".

We Muslims are not enemies of these societies. But these provocations are very elaborate psychological warfare techniques that serve precisely to antagonize. Finally, the idiot called Paludan, who signed the provocation in Sweden, admitted that he was paid by a journalist.

In other words, the events are not as much about individual freedom of thought as one might think, but about social engineering with microsurgical precision. Our sadness is that the current governments of countries like Sweden and the Netherlands are also complicit in this, or worse, they tend to use these events pragmatically. What they forget is that they are not in control of this situation, and when things get out of control, they will suffer the most.

Wow Thanks for the lucid explanation and observation.

I kind of figured that this was indeed planned propaganda and social engineering of the focused sort and am glad to find that I was not wrong and more importantly, others are of a similar opinion. These countries are rapidly facing the influx and popularity of Islam within their citizenry and are deathly afraid of it. If they are so liberal in their religious outlook, then why they are so afraid of Islam ? They constantly assign terrorism symbols with anything Islamic and doing other subtle and overt propaganda to stop the advance of Islam within the ranks of their citizens.

In the US initially there was a lot of Islamophobia and "Sharia-phobia" propaganda backlash in the 1990's when the number of Muslims started going up, but then the conversion rate did pick up steadily and I'd say there is a very large demand for information from the populace at large. Also a lot of Sheikh and Ulama are now coming from local Anglo-Saxon Caucasian origin American folks. One of the famous ones is Sheikh Hamza Yusuf (born Mark Hanson). He is the founder of the Zaytuna College at Berkeley. He is on YT as well.

Hamza Yusuf - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

This racist islamaphobic psychopath is not the problem. The problem is that these highly professional designed hate crimes take place under the protection of the law enforcement agencies of western states and are defended as freedom of thought. When we explain with examples that this is actually only the case in cases of Islam and Islam-related phenomena, and that in other cases the judicial systems of these countries have acted in the opposite direction in similar cases, these people play dumb and try to steer the debate in different directions.

I am not in a position to teach history here, but what I want to say is that we don't deserve this. No faith group or identity in the world deserves this disrespect, but it is especially sad that the Dutch and Danes turn a blind eye to such provocations against Muslims.

I would like to share a small anecdote with you: The Dutch, who today desecrate the Holy Quran, have quickly forgotten that when they rebelled against Spain in 1568, they made a medallion inspired by the crescent moon on the Turkish flag, which they wore on their hats with the inscription "Be a Turk Instead of a Papist".

We Muslims are not enemies of these societies. But these provocations are very elaborate psychological warfare techniques that serve precisely to antagonize. Finally, the idiot called Paludan, who signed the provocation in Sweden, admitted that he was paid by a journalist.

In other words, the events are not as much about individual freedom of thought as one might think, but about social engineering with microsurgical precision. Our sadness is that the current governments of countries like Sweden and the Netherlands are also complicit in this, or worse, they tend to use these events pragmatically. What they forget is that they are not in control of this situation, and when things get out of control, they will suffer the most.

Which is of course untrue.
Even when the ISIS flag was used in a demonstration, the prosecutor closed the case, because even a terrorist organisation have Freedom of Expression.
ISIS certainly present themselves as Muslim.

Police protection is awarded based on expected reactions. As Muslim hooligans are known to react with extreme violence (against the wishes of local Muslim organisations), police protection is warranted.

 

[mulj]

The request to do a demonstration was withdrawn. You have no case.




Israel complained, Muslims complained . People started to publish fake pictures showing him burning the Torah (Before it happened) He was called a war monger on social media , so he withdrew the application the day after.
Who knows, he might have received a message from Mossad.
Basically he got the same treatment as the Quran burner. And Muslims like yourself then starts lying about it.

You are free to apply to do a demonstration.

No, only lier here is you, admit double standards and you can move on.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

No, only lier here is you, admit double standards and you can move on.

I am presenting the facts of the case.
You are presenting unverified conspiracy theories.

 

[mulj]

I am presenting the facts of the case.
You are presenting unverified conspiracy theories.

No, you are twisting facts with mish mash wording, meanwhile i presented concrete proves for exposing double standards of swedish authorities.

 

[lightning F57]

The request to do a demonstration was withdrawn. You have no case.

That doesnt matter, what matters is what happened before that. The swedish police supported the law by allowing the quran to be burned then hid behind it when the torah scroll was alleged to be burned. Clear double standards and hypocrisy. To me it seems this Egyptian swedish person they pulled a stunt to show how your laws are selectively applied.

Hagia Sofia was built by Christians and was a Church before Ottoman times.
It was stolen by the Turks.
It is not up to You to decide what offends Christians.
That is up to the Orthodox Christians, but You apply double standards and excuses.

This thread is about quran burning you brought up hagia Sofia and made a straw man. I never gave my opinion on it I just stated the facts of it. Like I said before people praying in a mosque are not inciting hate and violence people burning a holy book do that. So your anology doesn't stand or does the one on trinity. Where did I say i support burning of holy text, if I did then I am a hypocrite, bringing up straw men to support your poor arguments dont work.

So if a Hindu turns a mosque into a Hindu temple....will you be happy because it is "respected" more than it would have been if it was left empty in a hindu majority part of the country?

The greatest mosque in Spain cordoba has been turned into a cathedral you dont see muslims protesting up in arms against Spain. Am I offended Christians pray in there I dont have a feeling one way or another to be honest.

Again as I said the analagies dont stand no one is burning down the hagia sofia, they are burning the quran which is sacred for muslims. They are inciting hate and violence all under the nose of the double standards swedish police.

The same political party who said they burn the quran because of freedom of expression condemed their own member for saying disturbing words about anna Frank.

I tell you what consistency would have been, if they didnt suspend that member and say we support your freedom to Express but dont support what you say. The police of Swden could have said to the so called torah burner yes we support too even though you gave less time. But neither did as their intentions were islamophobic to begin with.

No, you are twisting facts with mish mash wording, meanwhile i presented concrete proves for exposing double standards of swedish authorities.

This dude presents excuses his country law has been caught pants down with their double standards clear for the world to see. Delusion is what I say about people like this.

 

[Foinikas]

The greatest mosque in Spain cordoba has been turned into a cathedral you dont see muslims protesting up in arms against Spain. Am I offended Christians pray in there I dont have a feeling one way or another to be honest.

Again as I said the analagies dont stand no one is burning down the hagia sofia, they are burning the quran which is sacred for muslims. They are inciting hate and violence all under the nose of the double standards swedish police.

Oh no no no,you will reply to exactly what I asked you! Which is my exact comment on your talk about Hagia Sofia!
Don't talk to me about the "Great Mosque of Cordoba". I asked you something very specific!

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

No, you are twisting facts with mish mash wording, meanwhile i presented concrete proves for exposing double standards of swedish authorities.

The rules as published by the police says that it takes time to evaluate an application for a permit.
This means that you cannot expect to get a permit if you apply to hold a demonstration two days later.
An application that is withdrawn does not get processed.
That rule is for all applications.

Until You know if an application has been denied and why, you do not have a case,
The only thing we know for a fact is that the application is withdrawn.

From that, you cannot draw any conclusion.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

That doesnt matter, what matters is what happened before that. The swedish police supported the law by allowing the quran to be burned then hid behind it when the torah scroll was alleged to be burned. Clear double standards and hypocrisy. To me it seems this Egyptian swedish person they pulled a stunt to show how your laws are selectively applied.

You claim that the police denied the burning of the Torah - without any proof.

This thread is about quran burning you brought up hagia Sofia and made a straw man. I never gave my opinion on it I just stated the facts of it. Like I said before people praying in a mosque are not inciting hate and violence people burning a holy book do that. So your anology doesn't stand or does the one on trinity. Where did I say i support burning of holy text, if I did then I am a hypocrite, bringing up straw men to support your poor arguments dont work.

The question is why burning of ”holy” text should be banned.
The reason typically given is that this hurts the feelings of Muslims.
There is no reason why a law should be created that allows some firms of insults should be banned but other ignored.
Converting a Church to a Mosque is a grave insult to Orthodox Christianity.
You support this, but want to ban insults which primarily affects Muslims.
That makes you a hypocrite.

The greatest mosque in Spain cordoba has been turned into a cathedral you dont see muslims protesting up in arms against Spain. Am I offended Christians pray in there I dont have a feeling one way or another to be honest.

Again as I said the analagies dont stand no one is burning down the hagia sofia, they are burning the quran which is sacred for muslims. They are inciting hate and violence all under the nose of the double standards swedish police.

He is showing contempt for the text in the Quran. That is allowed.
Muslims are denying the Holy Trinity inside Hagia Sofia that is religious rape.

The same political party who said they burn the quran because of freedom of expression condemed their own member for saying disturbing words about anna Frank.

The quran was not burned by a political party.
The government was not involved in the Anne Frank afdair.
The party involved in the Anne Frank affair is not part of the government.
No person have the right to represent the opinion of others. The party stopped her from representing them. They did not stop her from expressing her personal opinion.

I tell you what consistency would have been, if they didnt suspend that member and say we support your freedom to Express but dont support what you say. The police of Swden could have said to the so called torah burner yes we support too even though you gave less time. But neither did as their intentions were islamophobic to begin with.

The police should say that we cannot process the application, but you are welcome to apply to hold the demonstration in a couple of weeks. I suspect that this is what he was told.

You do not understand politics. Anyone that screws up lose their position. The advisor to the PM was forced to resign this week. Why? Because he was a Muslim? No, he was not a Muslim. He was forced to resign because he became a liability. The PM lost confidence in his ability to do his job. Anyone in politics knows you only survive as long as you are an asset.

This dude presents excuses his country law has been caught pants down with their double standards clear for the world to see. Delusion is what I say about people like this.

You simply lack an understanding of the situation, and add a lot of racist conclusions, which are not based on facts, but on conspiracy theories.

 

[mulj]

The rules as published by the police says that it takes time to evaluate an application for a permit.
This means that you cannot expect to get a permit if you apply to hold a demonstration two days later.
An application that is withdrawn does not get processed.
That rule is for all applications.

Until You know if an application has been denied and why, you do not have a case,
The only thing we know for a fact is that the application is withdrawn.

From that, you cannot draw any conclusion.

i do not care about your buroucracy mess, end result is clear, double standards on the same matter, until is like that no need for further justification of if, it is all clear and sound.

 

[lightning F57]

The question is why burning of ”holy” text should be banned.
The reason typically given is that this hurts the feelings of Muslims.
There is no reason why a law should be created that allows some firms of insults should be banned but other ignored.
Converting a Church to a Mosque is a grave insult to Orthodox Christianity.
You support this, but want to ban insults which primarily affects Muslims.
That makes you a hypocrite.

You are a complete moron and a liar. Why are you making a strawman argument show me where I said I supported any of the things you said. I was never was discussing the trinity or hagia Sofia or aliens abductions you brought them up.

Your whataboutry and deflection tactics make your argument even weaker. Swedish law and its application has shown its double standards and hypocrisy you cant hide that fact however you want to twist it.

And burning any religious text is inciting hatred and violence your thick head still fails to see that.

He is showing contempt for the text in the Quran. That is allowed.
Muslims are denying the Holy Trinity inside Hagia Sofia that is religious rape.

Deflection tactics, strawman argument again. Big time fail.

The quran was not burned by a political party.
The government was not involved in the Anne Frank afdair.
The party involved in the Anne Frank affair is not part of the government.
No person have the right to represent the opinion of others. The party stopped her from representing them. They did not stop her from expressing her personal opinion.

I never said the government burned it I pointed to that far right political party. I pointed out they suspend a member because they exercise their freedom to Express they never did on behalf of that crap political party. So your argument dont stand again.

You simply lack an understanding of the situation, and add a lot of racist conclusions, which are not based on facts, but on conspiracy theories.

What racism did I add, you are a lying moron now prove it where I was racist or take back your lies. Only conspiracy is the fake freedom of expression you believe in hypocrite.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

You are a complete moron and a liar. Why are you making a strawman argument show me where I said I supported any of the things you said. I was never was discussing the trinity or hagia Sofia or aliens abductions you brought them up.

This is about insulting other religions. Hagia Sofia and the Holy Trinity are examples where Christians are insulted.

Your whataboutry and deflection tactics make your argument even weaker. Swedish law and its application has shown its double standards and hypocrisy you cant hide that fact however you want to twist it.

Sweden does things by the book. You want rules to be twisted in favour of Muslims and complain when they are not.

And burning any religious text is inciting hatred and violence your thick head still fails to see that.

It appears to incite Muslims to express hatred and become violent for sure, but that is their problem. There are no recorded cases of Muslims being attacked because of Quran burning inciting people as far as I know.

Deflection tactics, strawman argument again. Big time fail.


I never said the government burned it I pointed to that far right political party. I pointed out they suspend a member because they exercise their freedom to Express they never did on behalf of that crap political party. So your argument dont stand again.

They suspend the member from running a TV show in their TV channel.
Anyone doing that acts as a representative for the party.

What racism did I add, you are a lying moron now prove it where I was racist or take back your lies. Only conspiracy is the fake freedom of expression you believe in hypocrite.

You keep creating conspiracy theories against Sweden, trying to promote the idea that Muslims are discriminated in Sweden without facts. That is racist in my book.

 

[lightning F57]

This is about insulting other religions. Hagia Sofia and the Holy Trinity are examples where Christians are insulted.

Deflection tactics, whataboutry, strawman. Argument fail again.

Sweden does things by the book. You want rules to be twisted in favour of Muslims and complain when they are not.

No Sweden doesnt do by the books that was proved with the attempted torah burning farcade.

It appears to incite Muslims to express hatred and become violent for sure, but that is their problem. There are no recorded cases of Muslims being attacked because of Quran burning inciting people as far as I know.

Stop for once justifying incitement of violence. Burning a religious book outside a muslim majority country embassy is not exactly a hand of friendship. It's there to trigger hatred and violence, end off.

You keep creating conspiracy theories against Sweden, trying to promote the idea that Muslims are discriminated in Sweden without facts. That is racist in my book.

I created no conspiracy, I presented what the mainstream media is reporting. Muslims are being discriminated in Sweden and all over Europe.

As you lack understanding english let me help with definition of racism not what you made up.

From the oxford dictionary

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
"a programme to combat racism"

I am not racist stop making things up to suit your weak arguments. Constant whataboutry, deflections and strawman arguments shows you have not much to stand on.

 

[Foinikas]

Can you guys just relax a little bit? @lightning F57 he's not the one who burned the Quran. Take it easy.