Turkey and pakistan both countries lack identity

[Indus Pakistan]

We know our identity we dont need any Non Turks explaining how to be a Turk.

From what I have observed Turks probably have the strongest identity on earth.

On the other hand -

• Ireland
• Canada
• USA
• Australia
• New Zealand

are cheap knock offs [dare I say like Chinese made copies] or Number Two in local parlance of Britain.

 

[Pakistansdefender]

Both countries lack identity and self-awareness it seems like they don't know who they are and what they are its kinda strange sometimes.

They are universally hated because of Islam and even if they are not muslims they are hated because there forefathers were muslims and this will never change no matter what they do. It's destiny and fitra.

It's is a for gone conclusion but I see them trying to have their policies align with people who want to see them gone no matter what. They are viewed as expendables universally and the majority of the world is secretly praying for their exit of this world all-together.

You either accept who you are or you seize to exist. There will never be in between for some people

How does you device this enstine theory of yours ? Pakistan does face some ethnic crisis because Pakistan is a new country, these things take time to settle.. The more prosperous the nations are the less ethnic crisis.
Turkey has no such problems.
Turkishness is full ingrained in them .
They are Turks through and though and yes some problems exists here and there but that is common..
And as far as the west, they hate Islam in general, why you are so keen to get their approval in general.

 

[Nein]

From what I have observed Turks probably have the strongest identity on earth.

On the other hand -

• Ireland
• Canada
• USA
• Australia
• New Zealand

are cheap knock offs [dare I say like Chinese made copies] or Number Two in local parlance of Britain.

Australia was originally inhabited by Australian Aboriginals until British colonisation.

Australian indentity is still being debated to be honest not to mention a lot of Australians have immigrant ancestors and many are born to immigrant parents.

You can say the same for Canada, Usa and other settler colonies the identity of them are being debated.

Because is being Canadian a native or a european westerner??

 

[313ghazi]

If only the could figure out what it is. After 70 years the search team has not come back yet? In the meantime we can play along with being Muslim, Asian, Desi, Indian etc

I know what it is for me. You know what it is for you. It doesn't have to be the same for everyone. National identity, like all aspects of identity include a basic legal minimum and the rest is based on your experience and your understanding of the journey that got you there. The only people with a problem are those who want to dictate it for other people.

 

[Pakistansdefender]

Being watching Turkish movies and dramas have You..?
The reality is far from different.
Islam is ingrained in a turk as it is ingrained in a Pakistani, perhaps even more..
Cities like Istanbul paint a very different picture, their dramas a totally different turkey(because they sale them to not only to Muslim countries but throughout the world even to eurpeon and Latin American countries) .
But if you go into other parts of Turkey you don't see much difference.
Same is the case with Pakistan, if you see this new rich in Islamabad, Lahore, karachi who drank alcohol, go to dance bars etc etc what would you say then..
They do exists but in minority..

 

[Indus Pakistan]

If for you to be modern and living according to today's standard is losing your identity no its not.

Some people will consider any Turk not wearing this -

as Westoxified baskets.

making a new identiy differnt from our indian history.

Talk about yourself Gangu. Not all of us are children of Mata India. You go ahead celebrate it. Although would that not be better to do it in India?

I know what it is for me.

WE are not talking about our personal identities. National identity is the identity that is common to all. That is despite all the diversity the national identity is the convergence that ties everybody together.

basic legal minimum

Which is?

 

[313ghazi]

WE are not talking about our personal identities. National identity is the identity that is common to all. That is despite all the diversity the national identity is the convergence that ties everybody together.

Basic legal minimum? Citizenship within a state defined by it's geographical boundaries. That's all you need to be Pakistani, or any other national. Every other factor of a national identity is optional. For example, some people argue against 2 nation theory, in my mind that's not a very "Pakistani" view to have, i think the vast majority of us would agree, but legally, those people still tick the Pakistani box.

The rest of national identity is a mixture of political ideology, of shared experiences, of loyalty, a sense of belonging, all these things are slightly different for everyone. People will have different motivations, but generally will have that same "wrapped up" sense of togetherness around a nation state - which is how i define national identity.

 

[alphibeti]

Both countries lack identity and self-awareness it seems like they don't know who they are and what they are its kinda strange sometimes.

They are universally hated because of Islam and even if they are not muslims they are hated because there forefathers were muslims and this will never change no matter what they do. It's destiny and fitra.

It's is a for gone conclusion but I see them trying to have their policies align with people who want to see them gone no matter what. They are viewed as expendables universally and the majority of the world is secretly praying for their exit of this world all-together.

You either accept who you are or you seize to exist. There will never be in between for some people

Really? What did you smoke today or did you take an over-dose of cow urine this morning? Or your step father raped you violently? The so-called identity crisis in Pakistan is only in the sh!t-filled skulls born out of prostitutes who don't know who they are and what the shit they are getting out of their filthy mouth. We don't see any problem in Pakistan or with Pakistanis about their identity. We are Pakistanis and that is our national identity. What is missing in that which is present in the identity of an Dutch, a French, a British, American, Indian, or a Russian? Only thing I know is most of the people in all these countries don't really know their biological father's name. In other words, most of the people born in these societies are b@s@rds!. Pakistan and Turkey are much more family oriented societies and have much better identity as compared to the b@st@ard majority nations.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The reality is far from different.

No it's not. Stop comparing Pakistan with Turkey. They are not even on the same planets when it comes to such issues. Whilst there is alcohol, westoxified baskets in Pakistan but they hide behind closed doors in Islamabad, Lahore or Karachi. Probably less then 5% of the population.

Whereas in Turkey it's more lie 30% are full on westoxified baskets with another 20% sort of confused about it. This is reflected in that Turkey it is lergal to bum other guys and be openly homosexual. Indeed they have even had Gay parades in Istanbul. Try that in Pakistan and there would be bloodbath.

And alcohol is perfectly legal. You can sit in middle of any town and sip Vodka.

27% of Turks believe homosexual marriages shoule be allowed. I would even dare you ask that question in Pakistan?

Attitudes towards the legalization of same-sex unions in Turkey are mixed. A 2015 poll by Ipsos found that 27% of the Turkish public was in favor of legalizing same-sex marriage, while 19% preferred civil unions instead.[51] 25% of those surveyed were against any form of legal recognition for same-sex couples and 29% stated that they didn't know which option to choose.[51]

Ipsos Results[51]
Statement Agree

"Same-sex couples should be allowed to marry legally." 27%

"Same-sex couples should be allowed to obtain some
kind of legal recognition, but not to marry."

19%
"Same-sex couples should not be allowed to marry or
obtain any kind of legal recognition."

25%
Undecided 29%

Total 100%

 

[313ghazi]

@Indus Pakistan idk if you've already answered this question elsewhere, because you've discussed national identity quite a bit on this forum. Do you have a defintion of what it is or should be?

 

[Clearly]

Ahh Shut up? Wierdo..

 

[Indus Pakistan]

@Indus Pakistan idk if you've already answered this question elsewhere, because you've discussed national identity quite a bit on this forum. Do you have a defintion of what it is or should be?

Yes, I have ideas and I will post later on when I get time. However you are right in the basics. You exists therefore you are. Meaning any state that exists has a much right as any other and needs no reason to exist. When you walk around you see people around you. Some are born out of love marriages and paremnts wanted that child, other love marriages but did not want but it happened anyway, others are through accident or even one night stands or even rape but all now exist. You can't go question any of them as if one type has rights and other does not or should not have existed. Ditto nation states but clearly there is more on top to smooth the transition of a successful state.

 

[Kompromat]

Seriously

 

[kartal1]

No it's not. Stop comparing Pakistan with Turkey. They are not even on the same planets when it comes to such issues. Whilst there is alcohol, westoxified baskets in Pakistan but they hide behind closed doors in Islamabad, Lahore or Karachi. Probably less then 5% of the population.

Whereas in Turkey it's more lie 30% are full on westoxified baskets with another 20% sort of confused about it. This is reflected in that Turkey it is lergal to bum other guys and be openly homosexual. Indeed they have even had Gay parades in Istanbul. Try that in Pakistan and there would be bloodbath.

And alcohol is perfectly legal. You can sit in middle of any town and sip Vodka.

27% of Turks believe homosexual marriages shoule be allowed. I would even dare you ask that question in Pakistan?

Attitudes towards the legalization of same-sex unions in Turkey are mixed. A 2015 poll by Ipsos found that 27% of the Turkish public was in favor of legalizing same-sex marriage, while 19% preferred civil unions instead.[51] 25% of those surveyed were against any form of legal recognition for same-sex couples and 29% stated that they didn't know which option to choose.[51]

Ipsos Results[51]
Statement Agree

"Same-sex couples should be allowed to marry legally." 27%

"Same-sex couples should be allowed to obtain some
kind of legal recognition, but not to marry."

19%
"Same-sex couples should not be allowed to marry or
obtain any kind of legal recognition."

25%
Undecided 29%

Total 100%

Everything is legal as long as you don't cross some red lines. You probably don't see how these parades end... That poll is also not reflecting the reality of Turkey regarding the homosexuals. This poll could be reality in Izmir or partly Istanbul but Turkey as a whole is very different story. Every Turk I know in Turkey is homophobic instead of what you post. You probably don't know the price of Alcohol in Turkey. It is legal for consumption while not everybody can afford drinking often. Also there is a tons of restriction about carrying, when you can buy it and where you can drink it and the westernized Turks as you call them tend to show how hurt they are about the situation with Alcohol. It became a luxury for Turks to drink even beer.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

This is a sensitive subject, one that can only be discussed rationally and without flaming if it's separated into two threads (one each for Turkey and Pakistan) with Turkish & Pakistani members contributing to the threads on their respective countries.

This thread is therefore closed because I see nothing good coming from it.