Tunisia Lifts Ban on Muslim Women Marrying non-Muslims

[HannibalBarca]

It's like trump daughter she converted before having Jewish baby. She did not had problem to convert

Normal family both folks converted

Mazel Tov!

 

[Solomon2]

@Kaptaan :

I found this in Bukhari:

"...Break them (i.e. the arrows) and testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, or else I will chop off your neck." So the man broke those arrows and testified that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah. Then Jarir sent a man called Abu Artata from the tribe of Ahmas to the Prophet to convey the good news (of destroying Dhu-l-Khalasa). So when the messenger reached the Prophet, he said, "O Allah's Apostle! By Him Who sent you with the Truth, I did not leave it till it was like a scabby camel." Then the Prophet blessed the horses of Ahmas and their men five times.

 

[Cybernetics]

They had the USSR. We had the Caliphate of Umar (ra). Today our country can't freely choose its foreign policy and you think we can have islamic government? Led by dollar khor mullahs, ppp and pmln?

My opinion on the matter was stated in my first post. I respect personal choice, Tunisia is free to govern as they wish. As long as this was not considered an alteration of islamic principles then it is fine by me.

Unfortunately people use any opportunity to attack islam.



Maybe the same reasons all the non muslim third world countries are in the state they are in.

From an outsider's perspective I think there is a macro commonality between the downfall of all traditional cultures (including those from Europe) in the last 2-3 centuries. The commonality being the rapid technological rise of Europe, specifically the industrial revolution from UK (preceding events are minor) and the inability of other societies to find a place in this new order. This is not an accusation but an observation.

Simply traditional cultures more isolated from this paradigm shift couldn't survive a down cycle in their internal society due to this external shock. All societies go though cyclical events, it is crucial that a society be able to survive a down trend and rebound. Many societies proximating UK survived due to the close exchange of information, specifically technology and institutions to support this system thus many European societies were able to reform themselves within one century after the British industrial revolution. We see this in the many European revolutions and efforts at reformation.

UK also went through a down turn in the last century but was able to survive just fine due to the the absolute lead they built up. Even after dissolution of the empire they were still ahead of most.

All traditional cultures have certain incompatibilities with modernity, it is to be expected. This doesn't mean the entire tradition is incompatible, quite the opposite. Certain traditional wisdoms are not replaceable with modern understandings (yet).

Societal decay is not perfectly correlated with economic output in the short run (a century or so) as socity has many other functions, bigger societies have centuries of delay. For example long decay trend in China started somewhere during Tang or Song dynasty (long decay starts right after peak) 1000 to 800 years ago and accelerated during the Qing dynasty lasting until 1949, even though absolute economic output of Qing dynasty out paced previous dynasties. Only recently is China restarting a multi century long up trend.

Traditional cultures at their peak are competent at balancing their society's resources and forces. In a stagnant external environment they can rebound safely but proven to be weak to powerful external shocks. All nations who realize the impact of external shock chooses a peer competitor (doesn't mean enemy) in various spheres of society. America is outlined China as a peer cometitor begining 2025 and China chose America as a peer competitor some time ago and will move onto america + Europe in a few decades. External shock and the rebound is an necessary growth process for all nations. This is why many western strategists outlined china as an existential threat, though there are different methods in dealing with this. To survive you either you work with the prominent force or compete against it, maybe both.

 

[313ghazi]

@Kaptaan :

I found this in Bukhari:

"...Break them (i.e. the arrows) and testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, or else I will chop off your neck." So the man broke those arrows and testified that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah. Then Jarir sent a man called Abu Artata from the tribe of Ahmas to the Prophet to convey the good news (of destroying Dhu-l-Khalasa). So when the messenger reached the Prophet, he said, "O Allah's Apostle! By Him Who sent you with the Truth, I did not leave it till it was like a scabby camel." Then the Prophet blessed the horses of Ahmas and their men five times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demolition_of_Dhul_Khalasa

It was a building setup to rival Islam and misguide Muslims. it was put to an end. War is war. The incident references someone who has lost in battle and given an ultimatum between death and submitting to the truth.

 

[Solomon2]

It was a building setup to rival Islam and misguide Muslims. it was put to an end. War is war. The incident references someone who has lost in battle and given an ultimatum between death and submitting to the truth.

And therefore compelling outward conformity is permitted, even praiseworthy, with the expectation that people may nonetheless despise Islam in their hearts?

 

[HannibalBarca]

" A civilisation never die... it sleeps...And will rise again...When the needed number of Sacrifice is reached"

 

[Corona]

I strongly believe that we are inch away of dijjal's time or we have entered into his first long day. only Allah knows. its time to protect your Faith now than worrying about whole ummah.

What's Dijjal's time? Like Armageddon?

 

[HannibalBarca]

What's Dijjal's time? Like Armageddon?

Nope...Before the End of the World
Dajjal is the "False Prophet"... it's the equivalent of the Antichrist.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I found this in Bukhari:

I know. Problem with all religions is when you apply the XX1 century they begin looking shocking. I am not going to play the "I found this" game but you know the Torah and the Bible have pretty shocking stuff as well.

 

[Solomon2]

@313ghazi @Kaptaan

Checking with a few more sources, it appears a "given" that Islam is a kind of trap: it accepts that people may embrace Allah, be horrified by what they then learn of it, yet their only escape is execution. This commentator explains the reason why to a potential convert:

...And the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has commanded us to execute the apostate as in the hadeeth quoted above: “Whoever changes his religion, execute him.”

It may need some time for you to be convinced about this matter, and for you to think about it. Perhaps you think that if a person follows the truth and enters into it and embraces the one true religion which Allaah has enjoined, then we allow him to leave it quite easily whenever he wants and to utter the words of kufr (disbelief) that put him outside of Islam, so he can reject Allaah, His Messenger, His Books and His religion, and there is no punishment as deterrent, how will that affect him and others who enter the religion?

Do you not see that this would make the one true religion, that everyone should follow, like a shop or store which a person can enter when he wants and leave when he wants, and it may encourage others to forsake the truth.

Moreover, this is not someone who has never known the truth and practiced it and worshipped in accordance with it; rather this is a person who has known the truth, and practiced the religion and done the rituals of worship, so the punishment is no greater than he deserves. Moreover, such strong rulings as this are only applied to such a person whose life is no longer considered to be useful, because he knew the truth and followed the religion, then he left it and forsook it. What soul can be more evil than the soul of such a person?

Since a person is to be executed for rejecting truth, therefore in Islam truth is determined by whoever has the power to execute people. So if the Tunisian government dominates its Muslims with sufficient power it can therefore dictate what it wants as "Islamic" - including the right of Muslim women to marry non-Muslim men, yes?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Checking

Please read what I said below.

Torah and the Bible have pretty shocking stuff as well.

 

[Solomon2]

...I am not going to play the "I found this" game but you know the Torah and the Bible have pretty shocking stuff as well.

Neither Israel nor the U.S. rely on near word-for-word adherence to the Torah and Bible the way many majority-Muslim states do to the Qu'ran et al, so there is no comparison there.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Neither Israel nor the U.S. rely on near word-for-word adherence to the Torah and Bible the way many majority-Muslim states do to the Qu'ran et al, so there is no comparison there.

Then it's not so much a issue as to the scripture but rather the need to relax with the literal translation/application. This is largely a end product of development. The Muslim world still has to go through the secularization of society that Christiandom saw.

The Muslim societies in the vanguard of development like Turkey, Tunisia or Bosnian Muslims have already broached this and are in process of consolidation. Pakistan on the other hand is about two centuries behind. But we will catch up in about 50 years after the Chinese have invested enougth and then leverage that influence to pull Pakistan out of the dark ages.

Which is why I am rather excited about the friendship between a uber-athiest hyperpower and a Islamic wannabe but a bankrupt Medieval society Pakistan. Only good can come out of it.

 

[Corona]

Then it's not so much a issue as to the scripture but rather the need to relax with the literal translation/application. This is largely a end product of development. The Muslim world still has to go through the secularization of society that Christiandom saw.

The Muslim societies in the vanguard of development like Turkey, Tunisia or Bosnian Muslims have already broached this and are in process of consolidation. Pakistan on the other hand is about two centuries behind. But we will catch up in about 50 years after the Chinese have invested enougth and then leverage that influence to pull Pakistan out of the dark ages.

I wonder if China can achieve this in Pakistan without diluting the existing level of 'adherence' that some folks have for religion. They will fight tooth and nail against change. It was easier for Turkey and the others given their proximity to Europe and it's influences. Who's gonna influence South Asia to change it's mind? China maybe, but
despite the closeness, China and Pakistan are on opposite sides when it comes to the role of religion, especially when it interferes with the government. China can separate religion and state. The very idea is blasphemous in Pakistan.

 

[war&peace]

But why not? Who said they cannot? Are they not individuals with free will?

@jamahir @Peshwa @Well.wisher

Mate, in general Muslims are not allowed to marry outside of their religion both men and women. Though Muslim men gotan exception to marry women of the Ah-alKitab i.e people of the book (Jews and Christians only) but even that is discouraged and subject to a lot of pre-conditions. Muslim women are not allowed because they being fairer gender will face much bigger issues so they are not allowed. It is the clear verdict of holy Quran and the Prophet (Peace be upon him) so there is no difference of opinion on this topic by any scholar.