TTP leaders confess taking funds from RAW

Join · Sep 20, 2009

righteous_fire said:
So, please always post reference of every and all the claims you do. Like links to official or Neutral International sources, as I have tried to do. You do understand that sources like "India TV, NDTV, and BHARAT VARMA" are not neutral. We too, do no take them seriously.

This only serves to remove the general mistrust that Indians and Pakistanis have for each other.

Pakistan's ISI: The Guardians helping the Enemy - The Henry Jackson Society

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Pakistan 'role in Mumbai attacks'

righteous_fire said:
Well, this article is about the caught TTP leader who has given hard facts and evidence against India. If you read all the pages posted earlier, you'll get confirmation for this.

And by the way this thread is opened with the source of Pakistani media, keep that in mind aswell...

warlock21 · Sep 20, 2009

well many times Indian armed forces recover rifles like M 16 from N-E militant groups... so wht u mean tht US is involved in this.....King gyanender of Nepal was killed by israeli machine guns.... then wht u ppl say tht Israel is involved in regiem change in Nepal.......If India wants to arm TTp.. then why it would remain limited to some rifles only.... ATGMs like milan missile produced on large scale in India.... and we have good relations with Afganistan... we can arm them to the teeth if hell bent to do so.

R.A.W. · Sep 20, 2009

righteous_fire said:
Join, what is your opinion to the Title of this Thread?

What would you like to say about that Bro.

First the just because the Indians use the same gun Indians cannot be claimed that they are involved till the manufacturers of the gun give the details that the same gun was sold to GOI or others. If the gun has been designed illegally then the claim itself falls fake because Pakistan itself is a big market of fake weapons.

Secondly the confession by TTP can equated to the same pressure as claimed on Ajmal Kasab. Since his claims are not considered creditable on the grounds of interrogation same applies to TTP.

As far one of our Pakistani friends said that Kasab was interrogated and so he confessed being Pakistani but I dont think Zardari and GOP were also interrogated.

Awesome · Sep 20, 2009

Stick to topic guys.

rubyjackass · Sep 20, 2009

mjnaushad said:
Every Pakistani know that TTP is getting support from RAW.

Kasrkin said:
The TTP and the Afghan Taliban lead by Mullah Omar are a different breed, Mullah Omar himself having publically scorned at the TTP and their actions numerous times.

Is this misleading statement coming from one of the super seniors? Who solved the leadership crisis of TTP when BM died?

Kasrkin said:
Pakistan has been approaching the US and NATO with its concerns regarding Indian involvement in the region for some time. The US has denied our claims but that in itself doesn't mean that its not happening. Pakistan will be stepping up her campaign to hold India accountable for fermenting terrorism in its sovereign territory. Indian interfere in Baluchistan is an open secret as far as most people in the region are concerned. If Pakistan had sufficient diplomatic muscle then I reckon India would’ve been feeling the heat by now. Due to Pakistan’s reluctance to publicize too much proof of Indian activities, most observers don’t excessively comment, but none have ruled out the possibility. Many actually say it’s probable. It’s up to Pakistan now to try some political coercion of its own, regardless of the threat to the already stalled peace process.

Leak something into the world media and see what can happen to Indian interests. NO leaks happened because(AFAI can see) ISPR got nothing.

Captain03 said:
every pakistani already knows that
hope the international media picks this up though

They think they no it because they got layer after layer of hatred each time some one alleges Indian involvement without proof. If people understand it is just to make a tit-for-tat for India highlighting Kashmiri terrorism, then probably there would not be so many layers.
A layer a day, even when it is about uncircumsized penis.

righteous_fire said:
I am not surprised at all......

Captured criminals and our security personnel were continually hinting at Foreign involvement". Many such "gracious foreign donors" had generously helped their lackey barbarians in Swat. With India's glorious name on top of all of them. Here are some shining examples of this generosity.

I wonder if India or NDTV ever showed these eye openers!!. and more importantly in what version of the truth!!

Indian Made armed captured in Swat

Indian Made Arms captured

Lets see how our Indian Brothers reply to this..... rejection & ridicule or sane logical arguments!!!

R.A.W. said:
vickers are not manufactured in India at the very first place.

r3alist said:
i wonder if you intentionally behave as if you have been dropped on your head

RAW us an intelligence agency, by definition there operations are designed to leave 0 trail of anything, is there even anything concrete on mumbai related to the ISI, apart from some soap wrappers?

PLEASE IGNORE ANOTHER DEFLECTION ATTEMPT, LETS STICK TO TOPIC

righteous_fire said:
Indian Made armed captured in Swat

Indian Made Arms captured

==========================================

From ISPR:

According to well established and well documented facts, the terrorists are being funded, equipped and armed by the enemy forces and hostile intelligence agencies in order to destabilize and cut it to the size of their convenience. These Taliban, mainly local, included terrorists from foreign countries and, according to reports, trained Indian and Afghan troops.

India in Swat

===========================================
Another one from ISPR:

United States should compel India to stop its anti Pakistan subversive activities in FATA and Balochistan, implementing through its consulates and covert launching pads

ISPR

===========================================

http://www.vickersmachinegun.org.uk/markings-sn.htm
Look at the serial numbers had other markings of guns produced. The gun does not see produced outside USA, UK(pre-independence India included) and Australia. The gun production stopped before India got independence. Especially the 0.303 calibre version which is shown in the picture is very shortlived in terms of number of years. There are enough reasons for the gun to be found in Pakistan as it is in India. Morover all over the world, the gun gaev way for Browning machine guns very soon after 2nd world war. India still has Browning machine guns which shows they replaced Vickers.
Equipment of the Indian Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If it were RAW they could have afforded better guns.

fhassan said:
The Indians, I am afraid, are talking without knowledge. Yes, it would be nice of RAW was not involved; however it’s involvement is manifest.

I have stated before that a relation of mine, working for the ISI helped capture a RAW agent himself.

We have caught an untold number of uncircumcised people, Indian origin weapons and RAW agents. End of story.

For some bizarre reason, Pakistan is not publicising it as much as it can and should in my eyes….there may be a reason for this.

:Mod Edit:

Wow!! what a patriot. SO his job is to see if people around are circumsized or not?

righteous_fire said:
Should I consider that as a genuine reply??

Ridicule and rejection!!

I am looking into the allegations as a serious watcher and I haven't found one fact which at least comes close to getting accepted. Give me one proof. You cannot because you don't ask your people for proof. You get happy enough when they say its India who cares about proof. ANd the saddest part is nobody in Pakistani media uncovers the truth even if they know it for fear of backlash. People will ask what is your point in cleaning India's position. For example this false reports of VIckers guns(which indeed created a bad perception among many previously unconvinced Pakistanis of India) could have been clarified as soon they came into press. Now you people have reached a stage that even if I talk about proof you are not interested, as I said layer beneath layer you dont care about the lower layers anymore. The upper layers will be refuted only a little later, so time for more layers. :partay:

Or may be you want India to be shown as at least as bad as Pakistan at least for your own ego. But the only real thing you got against India is Muktinbahini so far.

PS: Read up on Vickers guns here
http://www.vickersmachinegun.org.uk/

Awesome · Sep 20, 2009

We have confessions... Three major leaders of the TTP are fessing up to have taken aid and training from India (and Afghanistan).

R.A.W. · Sep 20, 2009

Asim Aquil said:
We have confessions... Three major leaders of the TTP are fessing up to have taken aid and training from India (and Afghanistan).

We also of confessions from terrorists for getting training from ISI and been trained in Pakistan. But if people are expecting that their confessions are creditable enough to blame on India then the confessions for ISI are also equally creditable.

Righteous_Fire · Sep 20, 2009

A really nice and scholarly reply that one is, "Ruby!@#$%^&" :agree:

. You may have thus noticed my sincere regards just as your words end.

And I will try to be as logically accurate as you have been. Bare with me, and consider these counter points, honest and un biased, as that is what I am trying to do, with the hindsight that feelings of rejection of either side's official stand points is mutual, not just one sided.

rubyjackass said:
A layer a day, even when it is about uncircumsized penises.

Alas, that was not one of the points I raised. Know this though, that, proven and trusted official sources have expressed such facts backed with material evidence. I have not raised this here, as I deemed it too graphic and violent. Additionally, some of our Indian Bros here would have considered it as insulting to there religious beliefs. You can go through all my post history, you will know that I have always tried to be, impartial, un biased and neutral, as false heros for an un necessary cause is not one of my fantasies.

rubyjackass said:
The gun production stopped before India got independence. Especially the 0.303 calibre version which is shown in the picture is very shortlived in terms of number of years.

The said line of fire arms are in reserves. It would not be logical or sane anyway, to spread fire arms ubiquitously that were intended to be used in illicit anti state activities organized by a supposedly covert agency or intelligence service to begin with. This naturally brings us to the use of weapons that can be as hard as possible to be traced to its originator source.

Thereby, in planning out such operations, it would therefore be the best choice among many.

rubyjackass said:
If it were RAW they could have afforded better guns.

The issue of affordability here is not in the sense of the latest generation of hand held weaponry. Take your own statement for example. Suppose for argument's sake, it is an operation planned and carried out by RAW as we Pakistanis have been crying out all this while, would an official intelligence and covert operations State agency risk its neck on easily traceable fire arms, or ones, which or parts of which it already had in its arsenals in the millions?

rubyjackass said:
You cannot because you don't ask your people for proof. You get happy enough when they say its India who cares about proof.

So too can the argument be held against you in this instance. Credible News and Intelligence agencies have been crying out about weapons supplied by the Indians, even from the very mouths of these captured criminals as first hand hard evidence. And not just some low ranking ******** but supposedly the leaders among them. Why then have we not seen arguments in this regard from Indian sources as avidly or at all as they have been doing on all other anti Pakistan fronts?

rubyjackass said:
Or may be you want India to be shown as at least as bad as Pakistan

I want the truth, and the truth only, to be known in its right form, untwisted, un biased and all wondrous, as it should be.

===========================================

PS:

If all Indian politicians at least, were of the same un biased and neutral calibre as Ruby!@#$%^&, and I will say the same for those on our side, there would have been no wars between us than ones, which would be minor disputes solved mutually on the discussion table.

===========================================

Conscientious objector · Sep 20, 2009

Asim Aquil said:
We have confessions... Three major leaders of the TTP are fessing up to have taken aid and training from India (and Afghanistan).

Where are these alleged confessions ?

When Mullah Abdul Aziz of the Lal Masjid was captured he was immediately paraded on Pakistan state television.

Why doesn't the GOP allow the leaders of the TTP to be questioned on TV by independent news organisations the way it has with other alleged low level detainees?

These news reports hold no weight whatsoever, I'm surprised any right minded individual who looks at the situation in a balanced manner would even consider such articles noteworthy let alone make all the fuss that we see by members here.

This report is pathetic and you only make yourselves look pathetic by applauding such baseless information. Bring facts so that we can analyse them in a methodological manner, rather than this unemotionally charged fantasizing.

Kasrkin · Sep 20, 2009

Is this misleading statement coming from one of the super seniors? Who solved the leadership crisis of TTP when BM died?

There is nothing misleading in what I said. The Afghan and Pakistani Taliban ARE a different breed. And yes an American drone did eliminate BM, reportedly through Pakistani intelligence, however that still doesn't explain the previous reports in Pakistan suggesting that the US was hesitant to target him despite repeated requests. And TTP has always been given a lower priority as far as the drone attacks are concerned.

Leak something into the world media and see what can happen to Indian interests. NO leaks happened because(AFAI can see) ISPR got nothing.

No. Because we don't excel at manipulating the media like our counterparts next door, usually with NO genuine 'leaks' to speak of. It is unprofessional to 'leak' important information that can yet serve national interests. In India's case they make a BIG fuss and storm over something, only to find out it doesn't exist. Just because it has not been made public doesn't mean Pakistan doesn't have it and it doesn't mean Pakistan hasn't shared it with those who matter i.e. US. We're just not that good at dramatics, thats all.

irfan1173 · Sep 20, 2009

Kasrkin said:
It is unprofessional to 'leak' important information that can yet serve national interests. We're just not that good at dramatics, thats all.

AoA
This statement will make somedody think that we ruled by bunch of fools.The whole world manipulate anything to serve their national interest. We do it too but not as effective internationally but are very good at it in manipulating public opinion within the country.

The reality is very different.Showing a vickers as indian gun will make our gullible public believe but not the international community.They are not fools.The fact is there is little trust the world has on us and all these gimmicks will impress nobody.I can write more but leave it here.
May allah give us strength to see reality and stop living in this facade of false righteousness.

PAFAce · Sep 20, 2009

It's very difficult to understand the Indian defence of their intelligence services on this thread. Not a single reasonable statement other than "we're not involved" or "you started it". It seems to be based on blind trust more than anything rational. I mean, what makes you so confident that Indian intelligence agencies are not involved? They have every reason to be involved, and would consider it their natural born right to be involved. Then why wouldn't they?

I mean, we provide the world with confessions by those who targeted and killed Pakistani civilians, and you still deny it. Why defend something so passionately without a single piece of evidence or morsel of reason to the contrary? Because the Americans don't acknowledge it? Give me a break, since when did the Americans become the gold-standard in neutrality and honesty? Also, since when did the Indians care what the Americans said?

And it is just sad to read posts from those who believe that Pakistan's involvement in Kashmir is reason enough to justify Indian support of terrorism in Pakistan. I mean, there is no point even trying to mention that our involvement in Kashmir is to support a majority based separatist movement, whereas you're supporting pure terrorism and the murder of civilians. But then again, why are we even talking of this? Don't many Indians consider themselves morally superior to us Pakistanis? I mean, if I had a nickel for every Indian who claimed that they're more successful as a nation because they are just better human beings, I'd be substantially rich. Then why, all of a sudden, stoop to the level of us lowly Pakistanis?

It is infantile to believe the Indian intelligence services would let an opportunity like this pass by, in the name of peace. I will not say that they provided weapons, as I have no evidence of that other than the confessions, but at the very least, there is the possibility that precious intelligence would have been shared with them. What would be even more infantile is for the ISI/Pak Army to presume the Indians would stop simply because we protest. We need to develop a counter, something that makes it impossible for them to operate inside Pakistan, and launch a counter offensive elsewhere if required. We created this beast, we tamed it, and by God we can hunt with it.

R.A.W. · Sep 20, 2009

Conscientious objector said:
Where are these alleged confessions ?

When Mullah Abdul Aziz of the Lal Masjid was captured he was immediately paraded on Pakistan state television.

Why doesn't the GOP allow the leaders of the TTP to be questioned on TV by independent news organisations the way it has with other alleged low level detainees?

These news reports hold no weight whatsoever, I'm surprised any right minded individual who looks at the situation in a balanced manner would even consider such articles noteworthy let alone make all the fuss that we see by members here.

This report is pathetic and you only make yourselves look pathetic by applauding such baseless information. Bring facts so that we can analyse them in a methodological manner, rather than this unemotionally charged fantasizing.

R.A.W. · Sep 20, 2009

PAFAce said:
It's very difficult to understand the Indian defence of their intelligence services on this thread. Not a single reasonable statement other than "we're not involved" or "you started it". It seems to be based on blind trust more than anything rational. I mean, what makes you so confident that Indian intelligence agencies are not involved? They have every reason to be involved, and would consider it their natural born right to be involved. Then why wouldn't they?

I mean, we provide the world with confessions by those who targeted and killed Pakistani civilians, and you still deny it. Why defend something so passionately without a single piece of evidence or morsel of reason to the contrary? Because the Americans don't acknowledge it? Give me a break, since when did the Americans become the gold-standard in neutrality and honesty? Also, since when did the Indians care what the Americans said?

And it is just sad to read posts from those who believe that Pakistan's involvement in Kashmir is reason enough to justify Indian support of terrorism in Pakistan. I mean, there is no point even trying to mention that our involvement in Kashmir is to support a majority based separatist movement, whereas you're supporting pure terrorism and the murder of civilians. But then again, why are we even talking of this? Don't many Indians consider themselves morally superior to us Pakistanis? I mean, if I had a nickel for every Indian who claimed that they're more successful as a nation because they are just better human beings, I'd be substantially rich. Then why, all of a sudden, stoop to the level of us lowly Pakistanis?

It is infantile to believe the Indian intelligence services would let an opportunity like this pass by, in the name of peace. I will not say that they provided weapons, as I have no evidence of that other than the confessions, but at the very least, there is the possibility that precious intelligence would have been shared with them. What would be even more infantile is for the ISI/Pak Army to presume the Indians would stop simply because we protest. We need to develop a counter, something that makes it impossible for them to operate inside Pakistan, and launch a counter offensive elsewhere if required. We created this beast, we tamed it, and by God we can hunt with it.

Sir Haffeez Saed might have been hanged by now if the confessions were creditable enough.....

Sir we Indians have been hunting the beast for quite some time and sometimes we got hunted also. But by god now we know very well about how to put this beast to display for international community or to shoot it between the eyes.... Straight to helll............

PAFAce · Sep 20, 2009

R.A.W. said:
Now coming to neutral sources

Pakistan intelligence blamed for Afghan attacks - CNN.com

CNN.com - India police: Pakistan spy agency behind Mumbai*bombings - Oct 1, 2006

CNN.com - Bin Laden's safe haven? - May 31, 2005

CNN.com - Kashmir deaths blamed on Pakistan - Mar. 24, 2003

CNN.com - 'Prime suspect' in Kolkata attack arrested - February 9, 2002

CNN.com - New Delhi on terror alert - January 23, 2002

Should I provide you more links. There is no point of providing airtime to criminals as this does not serve any purpose. There is always a proper channel for the news to reach media. Media cannot be allowed access to each and everything.

You should have read all the "neutral sources" you have provided, before posting them to make your point. They all clearly state that the "Indians claim" such-and-such. It weakens your point if anything, it makes Indian authorities look like a bunch of whiners (which is not entirely a lie). Secondly, the CNN is a reliable source only if you're a hick. I am not one, so I take their reports with a grain of salt. There are certain Israeli and Indian media establishments that I'd trust more then the CNN. Lastly, this thread is about Indian support for terrorists targetting Pakistani civilians in Pakistani cities. Not about Pakistani support for Kashmiri separatists fighting Indian soldiers in Kashmir, there are other threads for that.

But as you say, Satyamev Jayte. It surely will this time as well.

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