Trashing The MiG-29

[SBD-3]

November 2, 2009: Malaysia admitted that it is getting rid of its MiG-29 fighters because the aircraft are too expensive to maintain. It costs about $5 million a year, per aircraft, to keep them in flying condition. Three years ago, Malaysia bought two more MiG-29s, in addition to the 18 it got in the 1990s. Two of those were lost due to accidents. Malaysia has since ordered 18 Su-30 fighters, and will apparently order more to replace the MiG-29s. Malaysia also bought eight F-18Ds in the 1990s, and is getting rid of those as well. Russia has offered better prices on maintenance contracts for new Su-30s, in addition to bargain (compared to U.S. planes) prices.

Most of the MiG-29s provided satisfactory service. Malaysia was long a users of U.S. aircraft, so they have been able to compare Russian and American warplanes. The Russian aircraft cost less than half as much as their American counterparts. The Malaysians find that an acceptable situation, even though they face better trained pilots flying F-16s in neighboring Singapore.

The MiG-29 entered Russian service in 1983, as the answer to the American F-16. Some 1,600 MiG-29s have been produced so far, with about 900 of them exported. The 22 ton aircraft is roughly comparable to the F-16, but it depends a lot on which version of either aircraft you are talking about. Russia is making a lot of money upgrading MiG-29s. Not just adding new electronics, but also making the airframe more robust. The MiG-29 was originally rated at 2,500 total flight hours. At that time (early 80s), Russia expected MiG-29s to fly about a hundred or so hours a year. India, for example, flew them at nearly twice that rate, as did Malaysia. So now Russia is offering to spiff up the airframe so that the aircraft can fly up to 4,000 hours, with more life extension upgrades promised. This won't be easy, as the MiG-29 has a history of unreliability and premature breakdowns (both mechanical and electronic).

Recently, Russia grounded all of its MiG-29s in order to check for structural flaws. Compared to Western aircraft, like the F-16, the MiG-29 is available for action about two thirds as much. While extending the life of the MiG-29 into the 2030s is theoretically possible, actually doing so will be real breakthrough in Russian aircraft capabilities. The Indians are going to take up the Russians on their upgrade offer. But the Malaysians are going to go with the more highly regarded Su-30. Malaysia expects to have all its MiG-29s out of service in about a year. If they can't be sold, they will simply be scrapped. Algeria, and several other nations, have turned down the MiG-29, which has acquired the reputation of being second rate and a loser.

 

[Chanakyaa]

MiG-29, which has acquired the reputation of being second rate and a loser.

Over 1600 Mig 29s have been built and sold to over 20 countries.
If Malaysia finds a replacement does that mean its a "loser" ?

F16 is being removed by US does that mean its a "loser" ?

Mate, Its an awesome Fighter. The Best when it came, With awesome mix of technology and power.
Even your JF17 is using a variant of Mig29 variant Engine, and a Mig 21 Airframe - But IMO Its a Good Fighter.
Even though JF17 is inferior to Mig 29. Its excellent in its own way.

 

[gogbot]

What a Joke,

The Fulcrum is nothing but world class aircraft. The latest version can compete with any plane of its class.

Although i wonder why it costs the Malaysians so much to maintain these plane ?

 

[Bullhead]

November 2, 2009: Malaysia admitted that it is getting rid of its MiG-29 fighters because the aircraft are too expensive to maintain. It costs about $5 million a year, per aircraft, to keep them in flying condition. Three years ago, Malaysia bought two more MiG-29s, in addition to the 18 it got in the 1990s. Two of those were lost due to accidents. Malaysia has since ordered 18 Su-30 fighters, and will apparently order more to replace the MiG-29s. Malaysia also bought eight F-18Ds in the 1990s, and is getting rid of those as well. Russia has offered better prices on maintenance contracts for new Su-30s, in addition to bargain (compared to U.S. planes) prices.

Most of the MiG-29s provided satisfactory service. Malaysia was long a users of U.S. aircraft, so they have been able to compare Russian and American warplanes. The Russian aircraft cost less than half as much as their American counterparts. The Malaysians find that an acceptable situation, even though they face better trained pilots flying F-16s in neighboring Singapore.

The MiG-29 entered Russian service in 1983, as the answer to the American F-16. Some 1,600 MiG-29s have been produced so far, with about 900 of them exported. The 22 ton aircraft is roughly comparable to the F-16, but it depends a lot on which version of either aircraft you are talking about. Russia is making a lot of money upgrading MiG-29s. Not just adding new electronics, but also making the airframe more robust. The MiG-29 was originally rated at 2,500 total flight hours. At that time (early 80s), Russia expected MiG-29s to fly about a hundred or so hours a year. India, for example, flew them at nearly twice that rate, as did Malaysia. So now Russia is offering to spiff up the airframe so that the aircraft can fly up to 4,000 hours, with more life extension upgrades promised. This won't be easy, as the MiG-29 has a history of unreliability and premature breakdowns (both mechanical and electronic).

Recently, Russia grounded all of its MiG-29s in order to check for structural flaws. Compared to Western aircraft, like the F-16, the MiG-29 is available for action about two thirds as much. While extending the life of the MiG-29 into the 2030s is theoretically possible, actually doing so will be real breakthrough in Russian aircraft capabilities. The Indians are going to take up the Russians on their upgrade offer. But the Malaysians are going to go with the more highly regarded Su-30. Malaysia expects to have all its MiG-29s out of service in about a year. If they can't be sold, they will simply be scrapped. Algeria, and several other nations, have turned down the MiG-29, which has acquired the reputation of being second rate and a loser.

Well, before jumping with joy and posting anything here.

Please do some research or at least some Google search.

Yes Malaysia is dumping Mig 29s(Which is on end of life). And guess what they are Planning to buy........

Sukhoi SU30MKM

MiGs to make way for Sukhoi


The MiG-29 jets were nearing the end of their 10-year lifespan and incurred heavy maintenance costs. Two MiGs had also crashed in 1998 and 2005.

The MiGs will be replaced by 18 Russian-made Sukhoi SU30MKM fighter jets which the Government has just acquired.

With this, the Government would save RM260mil a year in maintenance costs and the sum could be used to maintain other aircraft in the Royal Malaysian Air Force inventory.

 

[amunhotep]

malaysia will not make the same mistake with the sukhoi-30MKMs

here is the link

http://theasiandefence.blogspot.com/2009/11/su-30mkm-will-not-suffer-same-fate-as.html



The problem was exacerbated by the Malaysian government procurement policy that only limited the spares and parts suppliers to local companies. Some 20 local companies were involved in supplying parts and spares to RMAF and its authorised maintenance organisation, ATSC Sdn Bhd

 

[Bullhead]

malaysia will not make the same mistake with the sukhoi-30MKMs

here is the link

ASIAN DEFENCE: Malaysia



The problem was exacerbated by the Malaysian government procurement policy that only limited the spares and parts suppliers to local companies. Some 20 local companies were involved in supplying parts and spares to RMAF and its authorised maintenance organisation, ATSC Sdn Bhd

The MiGs will be replaced by 18 Russian-made Sukhoi SU30MKM fighter jets which the Government has just acquired.

Sukhoi-30 Fighter of Malaysia


Read my friend read.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Even your JF17 is using a variant of Mig29 variant Engine,and a Mig 21 Airframe - But IMO Its a Good Fighter.

I have no idea which JF-17 are you talking about, because the one which Pakistan is going to get has nothing in similarity to Mig-21 airframe.

If i show the picture of Mig-21 and Jf-17 to a dumb person who has not seen even a single fighter aircraft in his life and ask him that are both planes the same, he will be doing .

I just can't understand how could you not distinguish the difference or may be you are talking about some other aircraft.

Still hearing such comments on this forum by any Indian member after dozens of pictures of JF-17 been posted and a thread with thousands of replies about JF-17 is very hard to understand, makes me go reading such comments.

 

[sancho]

What a Joke,

The Fulcrum is nothing but world class aircraft. The latest version can compete with any plane of its class.

Although i wonder why it costs the Malaysians so much to maintain these plane ?

I expect IAF Mig 29 also to be not cost-effective. Russian fighters are known for cheap unit costs, but not for best quality and maintenance costs and not every country will get that kind of assistance like India gets as the number 1 arms buyer of Russia.

 

[conworldus]

I expect IAF Mig 29 also to be not cost-effective. Russian fighters are known for cheap unit costs, but not for best quality and maintenance costs and not every country will get that kind of assistance like India gets as the number 1 arms buyer of Russia.

MIG-29's battle record has been nothing short of miserable against U.S ones. Its range is also too limited to be a modern multi-role fighter. It is an interceptor for air-to-air defense, unsuitable for long range deployment.

 

[vnomad]

MIG-29's battle record has been nothing short of miserable against U.S ones. Its range is also too limited to be a modern multi-role fighter. It is an interceptor for air-to-air defense, unsuitable for long range deployment.

Against the USAF, the MiG-29's in service with third world countries never really stood a chance. Where it really proved itself was in service with the Luftwaffe in DACT exercises including F-16s, F-104s, F-15s and F-5s.

Russian Aviation Page: Aviano Vigileer: 'Buzzards' Fly With MiG 29s.
Code One Magazine: Schlemming with the Fulcrums, F-16/MiG-29 Training in Italy — July 1995

Both are links to articles describing the exercises.

 

[SBD-3]

Well, before jumping with joy and posting anything here.

Please do some research or at least some Google search.

Yes Malaysia is dumping Mig 29s(Which is on end of life). And guess what they are Planning to buy........

Sukhoi SU30MKM

MiGs to make way for Sukhoi


The MiG-29 jets were nearing the end of their 10-year lifespan and incurred heavy maintenance costs. Two MiGs had also crashed in 1998 and 2005.

The MiGs will be replaced by 18 Russian-made Sukhoi SU30MKM fighter jets which the Government has just acquired.

With this, the Government would save RM260mil a year in maintenance costs and the sum could be used to maintain other aircraft in the Royal Malaysian Air Force inventory.

Look bhai sahib.................I never jump with joy as you think i can and furthermore, for your information most of the countries are phezing them out for US platforms (includes F-16) and is something about IAF mig-29s, they also faced some problems

Source: Times of India
Date: 19 March 2009

Given that the Indian armed forces have an overwhelming dependence on Russian defence equipment, the news that Russia has grounded its entire fleet of MiG-29 aircraft due to structural defects — and subsequently found a large percentage unsafe to fly — is ominous.
The immediate implications for India are worrying. The IAF operates over 60 of the aircraft and is in the midst of procuring 45 more to fly off the much-delayed Admiral Gorshkov and indigenous Cochin-built carriers. And in a larger context, this is the latest in a series of developments over the past few years that suggest it is time for India to diversify its sources of defence equipment.
Russia’s defence manufacturing base is facing shortfalls in capabilities and capacities, leading to contract deadline overruns and increased costs, as seen repeatedly in the case of the Gorshkov.
Poor quality and a lack of spare parts only worsen the situation, as do its moribund R&D facilities which compel it to rely on technology dating back to the 1970s and 1980s. India’s ambitious plans to upgrade its military technology and the changing profile of its requirements mean that it can no longer afford to persist with a strategy that depends on Russia as its primary supplier.
And given the recent boost in its defence budget, with various countries scrambling for a slice of the pie, it does not need to.In monetary terms, Israel is already India’s largest defence supplier. US and European companies are engaged in fierce bidding as well.
There are issues with regards to Indian demands for technology transfer, but with the US agreeing to look at these concerns, there is no reason why they should prove insurmountable.
Taken together with India’s massive contract for 126 multi-role fighter aircraft, the retirement of the MiG-23 and plans to phase out the MiG-21, these burgeoning ties suggest that the time has come to look at multiple sources for India’s defence supplies.
India could also move to liberalise the indigenous defence industry. Opening it further to private and foreign investment and forming consortia geared to implementing specific projects can provide a boost here, bringing about much-needed structural improvements in the sorely lacking defence industry at home.
This is not to suggest that India should downgrade its Russian defence links entirely. That is neither feasible nor necessary. Such ties can prove to be advantageous in certain instances, as in the case of the BrahMos missile or T-90 tanks.
But unreasoning adherence to a decades-old strategy is no longer viable. Perhaps the increased competition and growing defence relationship with other countries will help New Delhi to drive a good bargain with Russia as well.

Comment: As pointed out by the ToI, India is becoming increasingly concerned about Russia’s ability to supply and support Russian-made equipment. Moscow needs to offer India some high level incentives and quickly, too

 

[Chanakyaa]

any one know about the new mig29ovt or just ignoring the facts.

Its known as Mig 35.

btw,

All the 62 Migs of India are going after a midlife upgrade and they will be upgraded to Mig 29 SMT.
These Mig 29s will remain till 2035-40

Now a logical qs. is when Malaysia is phasing out why is india keeping it?

#1. Malaysian Airforce is way 2 small and needs a few "Best Quality/Top Notch" Fighters. India on the other hand needs a large force and can afford to Upgrade and keep the numbers maintained.

#2. The IAF Upgrade will cost $15 Million for each Mig29 this is quite costly and Malaysia thinks its better to get new fighters than Upgrade.