Top US general says Taliban 'living in comfort' in Pakistan

[A.P. Richelieu]

you conveniently posted this title for us to read

Now it is a great example of running low on petrol and surviving on fumes. You see we began our discussion from the current state of affairs only to end up like an archeologist diging up the ground looking for sediment layers of the earth's past.

Does this book explain, how the taliban today have half of the country in their midst with US forces present their?
Does this book explain, how ISIS is emerging under the US umbrella just like it did in the middle east?
Does this book explain, how opium production was all time low to it being grown right next to bases of NATO troops?
Does this book explain, how the taliban were having Lunch in the US towards the end of the 90's negotiating a pipeline to be built by the US however it was awarded to a Argentinian firm (->9/11 US occupation afghanistan)?
Does this book explain how Hikmatyar a faction of the taliban is now roaming freely in afghanistan who till recent was wanted dead by the US?
Does this book explain, how Abdul Rasull Sayyaf a spiritual figure considered by Taliban and host to OBL is meeting Gen Nicholson?
Does this book explain, how provinces are left empty to freely allow TTP and their new branding of ISIS to nerture?
Does this book explain, how very serious allegations were made about ISIS getting helicopter ride to Tora Bora?


Does this book explain, your mental demise?

No, it does not explain the fall of the Roman Empire either.
I suggest You reread the cover to find out why.

 

[Path-Finder]

No, it does not explain the fall of the Roman Empire either.
I suggest You reread the cover to find out why.

I don't live in the past, The present and coming future is more pressing for me. As for Rome one parallel is they were arrogant and condescending today we see their ruins and read their history.

 

[Sucha Kuggu]

Gen. u should have stopped them from entering into their comfort-zone (Pakistan).

 

[That Guy]

Witness statements by thrustworthy individuals are accepted in court as evidence.
Either You claim that Benazir Bhutto did not make these statements,
or You claim she was lying when she made those stements,
in which case You need to prove she was lying.
In a case where your word is against her word, you would lose.

No, she and you need to prove she's telling the truth, because the evidence suggests that the taliban were around before the ISI got involved with them.

The burden of proof falls on the one who makes the claim.

It's no secret to anyone that Benazir Bhutto, and indeed the entire Bhutto family hate the Pakistani army, and the ISI with a passion, often making disparaging remarks against them.

In a case where my word is against hers, all I have to do is say "prove it", and you'll, along with her, will have nothing but your words.

See, asking an authoritative source doesn't automatically make that source correct, and when that source contradicts actual evidence, we can simply dismiss it.

So you've made the claim that the ISI created the taliban, which no evidence exists for, prove it.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

No, she and you need to prove she's telling the truth, because the evidence suggests that the taliban were around before the ISI got involved with them.

The burden of proof falls on the one who makes the claim.

It's no secret to anyone that Benazir Bhutto, and indeed the entire Bhutto family hate the Pakistani army, and the ISI with a passion, often making disparaging remarks against them.

In a case where my word is against hers, all I have to do is say "prove it", and you'll, along with her, will have nothing but your words.

See, asking an authoritative source doesn't automatically make that source correct, and when that source contradicts actual evidence, we can simply dismiss it.

So you've made the claim that the ISI created the taliban, which no evidence exists for, prove it.

You have provided no source for anything. Where are those facts you keep mentioning?

Her claim is that she approved the funding, which puts any blame directly on her.
ISI only executes the orders of the politicians.

Right now, there are no words vs someone which accepts responsibility for her actions.

There are plenty of reports confirming her statements, some includes references
to Pakistani officials lamenting the support.

https://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/afghan2/Afghan0701-02.htm

”Of all the foreign powers involved in efforts to sustain and manipulate the ongoing fighting, Pakistan is distinguished both by the sweep of its objectives and the scale of its efforts, which include soliciting funding for the Taliban, bankrolling Taliban operations, providing diplomatic support as the Taliban's virtual emissaries abroad, arranging training for Taliban fighters, recruiting skilled and unskilled manpower to serve in Taliban armies, planning and directing offensives, providing and facilitating shipments of ammunition and fuel, and on several occasions apparently directly providing combat support.”

”A retired senior Pakistani military officer claimed in an interview with Human Rights Watch that up to 30 percent of Taliban fighting strength is made up of Pakistanis serving in units organized by political parties.”

”The Taliban volunteer fighters interviewed by Human Rights Watch described their Pakistani trainers as being in their forties, military in appearance and speech, and frequently multi-lingual, speaking English in addition to Pashtu and in many cases Arabic and/or Urdu. Leaders of the fighting groups were younger, usually in their thirties, who identified themselves as former Pakistani military”

 

[That Guy]

You have provided no source for anything. Where are those facts you keep mentioning?

Her claim is that she approved the funding, which puts any blame directly on her.
ISI only executes the orders of the politicians.

Right now, there are no words vs someone which accepts responsibility for her actions.

There are plenty of reports confirming her statements, some includes references
to Pakistani officials lamenting the support.

https://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/afghan2/Afghan0701-02.htm

”Of all the foreign powers involved in efforts to sustain and manipulate the ongoing fighting, Pakistan is distinguished both by the sweep of its objectives and the scale of its efforts, which include soliciting funding for the Taliban, bankrolling Taliban operations, providing diplomatic support as the Taliban's virtual emissaries abroad, arranging training for Taliban fighters, recruiting skilled and unskilled manpower to serve in Taliban armies, planning and directing offensives, providing and facilitating shipments of ammunition and fuel, and on several occasions apparently directly providing combat support.”

”A retired senior Pakistani military officer claimed in an interview with Human Rights Watch that up to 30 percent of Taliban fighting strength is made up of Pakistanis serving in units organized by political parties.”

”The Taliban volunteer fighters interviewed by Human Rights Watch described their Pakistani trainers as being in their forties, military in appearance and speech, and frequently multi-lingual, speaking English in addition to Pashtu and in many cases Arabic and/or Urdu. Leaders of the fighting groups were younger, usually in their thirties, who identified themselves as former Pakistani military”

Do you bother to even read your own comments? That's all for supporting the taliban, nothing you've said actually eludes to their creation.

What is wrong with you? Why can't you get it through your thick head that you have to prove your claim, not fucking post irrelevant articles and comments you don't even bother reading.

 

[ghauri05]

American victories after WW2:

1. Liberated South Korea from North Korea in 1951.
2. Deposed Manuel Noriega in Panama in 1990.
3. Liberated Kuwait from Iraq in 1991.
4. Intervened in the Kosovo War on the behalf of Kosovo Liberation Army and forced Russian-backed Yugoslav forces to withdraw from Kosovo in 1999.
5. Toppled an Iraqi regime in 21 days in 2003 and deposed Saddam Hussein in 2006.
6. Intervened in Libyan Civil War in 2011 on the behalf of Anti-Qaddafi forces and ensured downfall of Muammar Qaddafi and his support base in Libya.
7. Routed Al-Qaeda Network in Afghanistan (and Pakistan) and deposed Osama Bin Laden in 2011.

Your knowledge of American accomplishments in warfare is rather questionable, my friend.

And did all these so called victories got the main objective..peace???Iraq libya,afghanista etc..even south korea is in perpetual state of war with north korea..so first of all u need to define what victory is???simply bombing your enemies hideouts isn't victory if peace hasn't prevailed

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Do you bother to even read your own comments? That's all for supporting the taliban, nothing you've said actually eludes to their creation.

What is wrong with you? Why can't you get it through your thick head that you have to prove your claim, not fucking post irrelevant articles and comments you don't even bother reading.

We already went through this. and You have seen an explanation what I mean.
The Taliban would have had no effect on Afghanistan without the support of Pakistan.

In that sense, Pakistan, and no other created what is known to the World as the Talibans.
The world is not aware of nor care of Hezb-i-Whatever, which might have been the result of a name change by a Mullah Omar in obscurity.

 

[LeGenD]

@A.P. Richelieu

You will find answers in this book: https://www.mylifewiththetaliban.com/My_Life_With_The_Taliban/Home.html

Taliban is a predominantly Afghan ideological movement; originally a component of the overarching Mujahideen movement that formulated to resist communist forces in Afghanistan.

Taliban movement became official in a meeting of some Afghan clerics and former mujahideen commanders in 1994 who sought to rid Afghanistan from criminal elements and warlords who were responsible for instability and numerous acts of violence across the country:

The founding meeting of what became known as ‘the Taliban’ was held in the late autumn of 1994. Some forty to fifty people had gathered at the white mosque in Sangisar. Mawlawi Saheb Abdul Samad, Mullah Mohammad Omar Akhund, Mullah Abdul Sattar Akhund and Mullah Sher Mohammad Malang all spoke, outlining their responsibilities. The respected Mawlawi Abdul Samad was designated the Taliban’s Amir, and Mullah Mohammad Omar was its commander. Mullah Mohammad Omar took an oath from everyone present. Each man swore on the Qur’an to stand by him, and to fight against corruption and the criminals. No written articles of association, no logo and no name for the movement was agreed on or established during the meeting.

The shari’a would be our guiding law and would be implemented by us. We would prosecute vice and foster virtue, and would stop those who were bleeding the land. Soon after the meeting, we established our own checkpoint at Hawz-e Mudat along the Herat-Kandahar highway, and we immediately began to implement the shari’a in the surrounding area.

We sent out groups of people to the nearby villages to let them know who we were, and to collect bread and sour milk from the houses. Mullah Masoom was in charge of managing the collection and of informing the people. Many of the Taliban were well known in the area and respected, and people were eager to help.

The next night the BBC announced the birth of a new movement in Afghanistan, and that the Taliban in Sangisar had started it. According to the BBC report, the Taliban wanted to cleanse the region of the illegal armed groups that were robbing the people. Members of the Taliban had not issued any official announcement or press statement about their objectives; they hadn’t even given any interviews. The media immediately started coining names for the movement, though, like “the movement of the Taliban”, “the Islamic Movement of the Taliban”, “the Taliban faction”, or just simply “the movement”. Even though the Taliban had now taken shape and were an undeniable fact, I was still worried.

The suggested book offers a comprehensive account of origins of this movement, notable figures involved in the movement, and factors behind its tremendous success. Firepower was a secondary thing to be honest.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

@A.P. Richelieu

You will find answers in this book: https://www.mylifewiththetaliban.com/My_Life_With_The_Taliban/Home.html

Taliban is a predominantly Afghan ideological movement; originally a component of the overarching Mujahideen movement that formulated to resist communist forces in Afghanistan.

Taliban movement became official in a meeting of some Afghan clerics and former mujahideen commanders in 1994 who sought to rid Afghanistan from criminal elements and warlords who were responsible for instability and numerous acts of violence across the country:

The founding meeting of what became known as ‘the Taliban’ was held in the late autumn of 1994. Some forty to fifty people had gathered at the white mosque in Sangisar. Mawlawi Saheb Abdul Samad, Mullah Mohammad Omar Akhund, Mullah Abdul Sattar Akhund and Mullah Sher Mohammad Malang all spoke, outlining their responsibilities. The respected Mawlawi Abdul Samad was designated the Taliban’s Amir, and Mullah Mohammad Omar was its commander. Mullah Mohammad Omar took an oath from everyone present. Each man swore on the Qur’an to stand by him, and to fight against corruption and the criminals. No written articles of association, no logo and no name for the movement was agreed on or established during the meeting.

The shari’a would be our guiding law and would be implemented by us. We would prosecute vice and foster virtue, and would stop those who were bleeding the land. Soon after the meeting, we established our own checkpoint at Hawz-e Mudat along the Herat-Kandahar highway, and we immediately began to implement the shari’a in the surrounding area.

We sent out groups of people to the nearby villages to let them know who we were, and to collect bread and sour milk from the houses. Mullah Masoom was in charge of managing the collection and of informing the people. Many of the Taliban were well known in the area and respected, and people were eager to help.

The next night the BBC announced the birth of a new movement in Afghanistan, and that the Taliban in Sangisar had started it. According to the BBC report, the Taliban wanted to cleanse the region of the illegal armed groups that were robbing the people. Members of the Taliban had not issued any official announcement or press statement about their objectives; they hadn’t even given any interviews. The media immediately started coining names for the movement, though, like “the movement of the Taliban”, “the Islamic Movement of the Taliban”, “the Taliban faction”, or just simply “the movement”. Even though the Taliban had now taken shape and were an undeniable fact, I was still worried.

The suggested book offers a comprehensive account of origins of this movement, notable figures involved in the movement, and factors behind its tremendous success. Firepower was a secondary thing to be honest.

Thank You,
Will think about buying.
He has an interesting reference on the subject...

 

[That Guy]

We already went through this. and You have seen an explanation what I mean.
The Taliban would have had no effect on Afghanistan without the support of Pakistan.

In that sense, Pakistan, and no other created what is known to the World as the Talibans.
The world is not aware of nor care of Hezb-i-Whatever, which might have been the result of a name change by a Mullah Omar in obscurity.

View attachment 440621

View attachment 440622

You don't need to repost previous comments, I already said we're back to square one.

You can't seem to get it through your head that the taliban were already having an effect on Afghanistan, before the ISI got involved with them.

I'm done here. If you can't understand something so basic, and have to resort to making things up, and conspiracy theories, than there is no point in talking to you.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

You don't need to repost previous comments, I already said we're back to square one.

You can't seem to get it through your head that the taliban were already having an effect on Afghanistan, before the ISI got involved with them.

I'm done here. If you can't understand something so basic, and have to resort to making things up, and conspiracy theories, than there is no point in talking to you.

The general consensus seems to be that the Taliban movement was founded September 1994.
The Taliban “discovered” the weapons hidden by the Pakistanis in
October 1994.
Maybe You disagree with this timeline, if not,
it is not a lot of time to have an effect on Afghanistan.
Perhaps the Pakistani connection was not ISI initially.
Have seen claims that different organisations within Pakistan supported different Afghan factions, and if your “facts”
which have not been presented are internal knowledge of ISI operation, that could explain the disagreement.

 

[That Guy]

The general consensus seems to be that the Taliban movement was founded September 1994.
The Taliban “discovered” the weapons hidden by the Pakistanis in
October 1994.
Maybe You disagree with this timeline, if not,
it is not a lot of time to have an effect on Afghanistan.
Perhaps the Pakistani connection was not ISI initially.
Have seen claims that different organisations within Pakistan supported different Afghan factions, and if your “facts”
which have not been presented are internal knowledge of ISI operation, that could explain the disagreement.

Oh NOW you admit that the ISI didn't create the taliban.

This conversation had nothing to do with supporting the taliban, it had to do with their creation.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Oh NOW you admit that the ISI didn't create the taliban.

This conversation had nothing to do with supporting the taliban, it had to do with their creation.

Nope, I said almost from the beginning, that:
“Pakistan/ISI involved itself heavily in the creation of the Afghan Taliban according to Benazir Bhutto”. The “/“ could be interpreted as “and”, but also as “and/or”
and as I pointed out early, “creation” to me, can also be interpreted as “making it a viable force”.
And no, I did not admit anything, I said I did not know exactly which organisations with the Pakistan Intelligence services were involved. That does not rule out ISI.
ISI is, admittedly sloppyily, simply used as a nomer for Pakistans set of Intelligence services
in the first statements.
The important point is the earlier claim that Pakistan has nothing to do with the Talibans,
which is profoundly untrue.

 

[That Guy]

Nope, I said almost from the beginning, that:
“Pakistan/ISI involved itself heavily in the creation of the Afghan Taliban according to Benazir Bhutto”. The “/“ could be interpreted as “and”, but also as “and/or”
and as I pointed out early, “creation” to me, can also be interpreted as “making it a viable force”.
And no, I did not admit anything, I said I did not know exactly which organisations with the Pakistan Intelligence services were involved. That does not rule out ISI.
ISI is, admittedly sloppyily, simply used as a nomer for Pakistans set of Intelligence services
in the first statements.
The important point is the earlier claim that Pakistan has nothing to do with the Talibans,
which is profoundly untrue.

Now you're going to play semantics, wow, just wow.