Top 7 Reasons Why Pakistan’s SUPARCO is not successful as India’s ISRO

[OmnISec]

To compare it with ISRO is nothing but indulging in stroking thier ego. SUPARCO was set up for a reason, to get the tech for BM's, as mentioned by @Horus as well. That objective was achieved.

If that were the only case, it would have been defunct by now. I do doubt that its another PIA but there are no visible results like those of the other 3 organizations.

 

[Tiger Awan]

NESCOM and some administrative setups in other organizations as well.

personally know a few officers who worked in NESCOM and know their work, wish i could share, They are engineers. Yes an army officer has this habit of not tolerating a "No Sir" but I know few civilian officers too who are "not polite" and ppl dont work to work under them. Thing is its not a general trend and we are talking about a very big setup with thousands of employees

Sounds like you are affiliated with either SPD or a strategic organisation. Lets just try and not put your background open in the world.

Well to be honest, all the young engineers and one or two scientists I know who were able to join PAEC are not provided any sort of accommodation except for ones in Chashma. Neither are they given house rent if single. I have first handedly seen more than a dozen GRADE 17 officers living in accommodations like this while visiting a classfellow somewhere near Karachi Company when I went to Islamabad for an NTS for IESCO. (random picture off internet and its still better)

Na kar yar, Qasmey ?? The ones who got attachment to Chashma got accommodation ?? This is great. Generally you dont get accommodation in PAEC or in any other strategic organisation (especially in Chashma where engineers are in abundance and accommodations are generally occupied, you have to wait for your turn). What you do get is house rent and if you are living in your parents house you can apply for house rent by saying that you pay rent to your parents for living in their house then you can also tell them that you parents are dependent on you (when they retire) and you can get some extra money that way too There is a problem of these strategic organisation not making their own societies but you do get compensated by house allowance, transport allowance etc etc etc

Entitled patients are being charged for facilities in PAEC hospital as well. You are free to visit.

I do. When entitled patients are charged, they need to take that bill and give it to finance dept in their office and it will get reimbursed Oh and NESCOM hospital in Islamabad is one of the better hospital in the city. Among the govt hospitals i think service wise its better than PIMS etc.

 

[OmnISec]

I do. When entitled patients are charged, they need to take that bill and give it to finance dept in their office and it will get reimbursed Oh and NESCOM hospital in Islamabad is one of the better hospital in the city. Among the govt hospitals i think service wise its better than PIMS etc.

I don't think you know the new regulations from SPD about the hospitals then.

Generally you dont get accommodation in PAEC or in any other strategic organisation

So you do get the point that strategic organizations don't care about the employees be it officers or staff and that's why more and more capable people are leaving. Even post office staff has better life style than your employees.

 

[Tiger Awan]

I don't think you know the new regulations from SPD about the hospitals then.



So you do get the point that strategic organizations don't care about the employees be it officers or staff and that's why more and more capable people are leaving. Even post office staff has better life style than your employees.

Plz tell me whats the new regulation

They dont care ?? I just told you they give you house allowance if you are not given accommodation. What else should they do ??

 

[OmnISec]

Plz tell me whats the new regulation

They dont care ?? I just told you they give you house allowance if you are not given accommodation. What else should they do ??

Bhai 6000 house rent allowance mein reh ke dikha dein kaheen.

As for the new regulation of the hospitals, even an entitled officer/staff has to pay (non-reimbursable as of what I know up till now) for a medical check up, xray, ct scan or physiotherapy in the hospital. I don't think anyone in the military had ever had to do that in CMH. Obviously, you can just squeeze the civilians. As I mentioned, talented people are leaving. Peechay phateechar reh jayein gay who can't find a better job because of their inability to work.

 

[Tiger Awan]

Bhai 6000 house rent allowance mein reh ke dikha dein kaheen.

As for the new regulation of the hospitals, even an entitled officer/staff has to pay (non-reimbursable as of what I know up till now) for a medical check up, xray, ct scan or physiotherapy in the hospital. I don't think anyone in the military had ever had to do that in CMH. Obviously, you can just squeeze the civilians. As I mentioned, talented people are leaving. Peechay phateechar reh jayein gay who can't find a better job because of their inability to work.

Not that I know of, and i do hope i stay healthy so that i dont find out

Its OK to not be satisfied with an organisation but dont call employees of that organisation phateechar on their face at least Just 2-3 weeks back I got to know two professors in PIEAS got their research published in NASA. Not exactly phateechar my friend

This inability to do work is bcz of the lack of funding, strategic organisations are bombarded with short term projects and we really dont have the resources to do long term projects but all of this wont bring our morale down.

I once asked a person (whose work on crack simulation was published in top journals of his field) that why he is happy to live and work away from the city where there are no good facilities. He said "Scientists to rehtey hi jangalon mien hain"

To work for a strategic organisation you require some motivation. If you cant find that with the salary that is being offered by them then I seriously doubt that "talent" would be of any help. Its not a high living standard but its not a bad living standard either. Hirs kahien ka nahi chorti

I guess its enough for my side

 

[JamD]

From what I have gathered from my colleagues who have left or are planning to leave SPD organizations:
1) Shortage of Projects/Overstaffing: Most people complain they aren't given any meaningful work. Some are happy with this, some do personal projects, some want to leave.
2) Lack of Freedom of Research: People are assigned and told what to do with little regard for their inclinations or expertise. Obviously this causes lack of motivation. This is in contrast with a university setting where you are self motivated and doing almost exactly what you like. Also unlike university research, you can't really publish your work.
3) Politics: This is universal in Pakistan at least, I suppose but I hear some very nasty office politics stories which have undermined technological progress and undermining of merit. This causes much disillusionment.

I would like to disagree that SPD organizations don't take care of their workforce. You should compare the benefits to any other private sector engineering job and you'll realize that an SPD engineering job is probably the comfiest options out there for an engineer in Pakistan. My friends in the private defense sector side earn half the salary of their SPD counterparts, none of the benefits that SPD folks get, and often work Saturdays and Sundays (without overtime pay).

 

[Tiger Awan]

From what I have gathered from my colleagues who have left or are planning to leave SPD organizations:
1) Shortage of Projects/Overstaffing: Most people complain they aren't given any meaningful work. Some are happy with this, some do personal projects, some want to leave.
2) Lack of Freedom of Research: People are assigned and told what to do with little regard for their inclinations or expertise. Obviously this causes lack of motivation. This is in contrast with a university setting where you are self motivated and doing almost exactly what you like. Also unlike university research, you can't really publish your work.
3) Politics: This is universal in Pakistan at least, I suppose but I hear some very nasty office politics stories which have undermined technological progress and undermining of merit. This causes much disillusionment.

I would like to disagree that SPD organizations don't take care of their workforce. You should compare the benefits to any other private sector engineering job and you'll realize that an SPD engineering job is probably the comfiest options out there for an engineer in Pakistan. My friends in the private defense sector side earn half the salary of their SPD counterparts, none of the benefits that SPD folks get, and often work Saturdays and Sundays (without overtime pay).

agree to all this. and this is because of what i mentioned in previous post. Too many short term goals and few long terms. This doesnt let us develop expertise. Its like this is our imminent goal and one way or other you HAVE to do this so naturally irrespective of what is the expertise of the juniors they are given the task. This approach has to do more with govt then SPD. SPD is just a secretariat managing all the organisations. Its the govt that set the direction in which we go.

 

[patman]

India is ahead of most nations in space tech,ISRO is in the top 5 . its foolish to compare like this. the only way Pakistan can compete is by collaborating with other space organizations like ESA.

 

[OmnISec]

This inability to do work is bcz of the lack of funding, strategic organisations are bombarded with short term projects and we really dont have the resources to do long term projects but all of this wont bring our morale down.

Please don't say that. PAEC's even has a separate budget for public sector operations which was more than $2.5bn this year and also gets defence budget through SPD.

Its OK to not be satisfied with an organisation but dont call employees of that organisation phateechar on their face at least Just 2-3 weeks back I got to know two professors in PIEAS got their research published in NASA. Not exactly phateechar my friend

PIEAS is the only place you can quote like this and that too because it's a university.

I would like to disagree that SPD organizations don't take care of their workforce.

You just mentioned you know multiple people who have left the organization or are going to soon enough.

often work Saturdays and Sundays (without overtime pay)

I'm pretty sure officers don't get overtime and can be called to work anytime, anywhere. Be it a weekend or a 36 hrs shift in the weekday. Be it the military, a public sector hospital or police.

 

[Tiger Awan]

Please don't say that. PAEC's even has a separate budget for public sector operations which was more than $2.5bn this year and also gets defence budget through SPD

Only if you knew the projects and how much money we need to run them but you dont

PIEAS is the only place you can quote like this and that too because it's a university..

Pieas is the place from where a healthy chunk of the new officers come. And yes i cant quote work from other establishments, doesn't mean there is no work

I'm pretty sure officers don't get overtime and can be called to work anytime, anywhere. Be it a weekend or a 36 hrs shift in the weekday. Be it the military, a public sector hospital or police.

Pretty sure ?? Check again

 

[OmnISec]

Only if you knew the projects and how much money we need to run them but you dont

$2.5 bn dollars for hospitals, agricultural projects and salaries. PAEC gets further more funding for each mega project like a power plant. Further more, the classified operation is developed or maintained from funding under the SPD.

Pretty sure ?? Check again

I, for once, am sure that PSP and PAS officers don't get overtime pay[ cheques.

 

[niaz]

Despite not being privy to the Scientific Research & Development programs related to the Military and Defence of both the countries; I can safely say that Indian defence industry and space program is attempting to compete with the Chinese, with Pakistan there is simply no comparison. the reasons are noted below.

Pakistan may have assembled and launched Rahber1 & Rahber2 in the 1950’s but the Suparco & ISRO were formed around 1961/1962. Thus both the organizations have been in existence for about the same number of years. Here the comparison ends.

ISRO has annual budget of about $1.4-billion with a staff of more than 7000, about third scientists and engineers. Suparco on the other hand has been cash starved since Zia cancelled PAKSAT project in 1984 because the funds were needed for the development of the atomic weapons. I have no details about Suparco’ staff and understand that budget is less than $100-million.

Additionally, Prof Abdus Salaam was a Theoritical Physicist not a Rocket Scientist. ISRO has had the good fortune of having two extremely talented scientists; Dr Homi Bhaha and Dr Abul Kalam (later President of India) at its helm. How can one compare Suparco with ISRO when difference in the available men and material resources is so great?

In addition to the ISRO; India has the mammoth DRDO working on weapons research. DRDO has 30,000 employees including 5,000 scientists & engineers with a budget of $2-billion per annum!

Pakistan has no organisation equivalent to DRDO. Our weapons program is run by NESCOM which is directly under the Ministry of Defence. National Development Complex (NDC) and Air Weapons Complex (AWC); both subsidiaries of NESCOM; are engaged in the missile development. Data about NESCOM is not available but since total military budget of Pakistan is only about $7-billion, NESCOM cannot have access to more than a fraction of the resources allocated the DRDO.

Therefore there may be other minor reasons for the lack of progress of Suparco, in my humble opinion the REAL reason in only one, lack of FUNDING.

Considering that Pakistan is spending roughly 7% of the Indian equivalent expenditure on R&D; I can arguably claim that both the SUPARCO and the NESCOM are doing remarkably well.

 

[Tiger Awan]

$2.5 bn dollars for hospitals, agricultural projects and salaries. PAEC gets further more funding for each mega project like a power plant. Further more, the classified operation is developed or maintained from funding under the SPD.



I, for once, am sure that PSP and PAS officers don't get overtime pay cheques.

What funding for mega projects ?? Govt is not paying a peny for Karachi Nuclear Power Plants. It was meant to be 80-20 but it has now changed to 100% Chinese

same is the case for Chashma where the unit price was set at 7Rs. 5Rs was the cost and 2Rs was the Chinese loan. Chashma-I has repaid the loan and now its earning 12 crore a day for country

Those who dont get paid for overtime is again not because of the policy of PAEC but bcz of the lack of funds. Pay is not a problem. However if someone is being paid 100K and he looks at ppl being payed 200K then yes he will never get satisfied and such ppl imo lack the kind of motivation you need for work strategic organisations are meant to do

Pakistan has no organisation equivalent to DRDO. Our weapons program is run by NESCOM which is directly under the Ministry of Defence. National Development Complex (NDC) and Air Weapons Complex (AWC); both subsidiaries of NESCOM; are engaged in the missile development. Data about NESCOM is not available but since total military budget of Pakistan is only about $7-billion, NESCOM cannot have access to more than a fraction of the resources allocated the DRDO.

Sir NESCOM being a strategic organisation is under SPD which is the secretariat of NCA (National Command Authority) so as such they are not under any ministry.

 

[The Eagle]

India’s ISRO (Indian Space Research Organisation) is the space agency of the Indian government headquartered in the city of Bengaluru. Its vision is to “harness space technology for national development, while pursuing space science research and planetary exploration”It was Established in 15th August 1969.

Pakistan SUPARCO (Space and Upper Atmosphere Research Commission ) is an executive and bureaucratic space agency of the Government of Pakistan, responsible for the nation’s public and civil space programme and for aeronautics and aerospace research.

Its mission statement and objective is to conduct peaceful research in space technology and promote the technology for socio-economic uplift of the country.It was Established in 16th Septmeber 1961.

1)Pakistan’s only Noble prize laureate ‘Dr. Abdus Salam’ was the brain behind SUPARCO. The only achievement that Pakistan can boast of is the successful launch of its first fully functional communication satellite, the Paksat-1R.This satellite, however, it was not indigenous built. China was behind Paksat-1R’s design, built, launch and even funding; only a few components were built in Pakistan.

2)India, on the other hand, has been able to launch over 180 satellites to date . It has even managed to launch its own unmanned lunar probe, the Chandrayaan-1, Mars mission . Now ISRO is planning to launch its solar mission.

3)ISRO is administered by the scientists themselves . It has been kept kept shielded from politics. On the other hand SUPARCO is run by the retired military gen of Pak army who has very little knowledge of the space science.

4)ISRO is backed by a government that knows its priorities and backs the agencies accordingly. Pakistan govt is too obsessed with other motives of theirs.

5)Indian government has always emphasis the need of studying science , its application to make the life of common man more comfortable and using the same as a tool for economic development. But this sector has always neglected by the Pak government as they think that spending money on science and technology is not worth it.

6)Religion has always been mixed with the state affairs as well as in education. This policy of the government has brought Pakistan on the back foot in every sector where education especially science is involved.

7)Corruption is the inseparable part of the Pak institutions. This has weakened the state’s institutions including SUPARCO

Always share the source/link with news to give credit where it is due.

https://refreshmentplus.com/2017/04...uparco-is-not-much-successful-as-indias-isro/