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.Better equate it to the allowance of mosques,
What soo grand about this? Many Sultanates allow Churches! Apart from Saudi OTHER SULTANATES (non liberal non secular and non tolerant countries allow churches)

no "jyzia" like tax,
What is soo grand about this? This tax has been extinct for a while now! In fact MANY Middle eastern countries have tax free pay...why do you think many flock there for jobs ....to intolerant govt?

no religious violence,no killing those who deny Jesus as the One True God
non liberal non secular and non tolerant SULTANATES such as Oman, Brunei, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait doesnt have this either...

no killing of those who burn a Bible,
no killing of the "Sharia for UK" crowd,
non liberal non secular and non tolerant SULTANATES such as Oman, Brunei, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait doesnt have this either...

no "you need 4 women witnesses to equal 1 men" or other crap like that.
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Pakistan doesnt have this dont know the individual laws of the other countries....


So where is your liberty shining? Europe is the same as non liberal non secular and non tolerant SULTANATES such as Oman, Brunei, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait
 
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Because the difference IS there and it's HUGE.For some strange reasons you just can't see it.
Either that or you just have never lived in any of those countries to know that what you are claiming a HUGE difference exists very well in so called non liberal non secular and non tolerant SULTANATES such as Oman, Brunei, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait
 
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It was required by Prophet's (PBUH) wifes and it ends there. Scholar's interpretition is wrong when they sought the same for all Muslim women. Nothing was stopping Allah from making it mendatory for remaining Muslim women but he made no such mention in his book. Scholars must be careful putting their words (naaoz-billah) in Allah's mouth. One can argue that it would be desirable but not that it is mendatory.

This is the fact but idk why it is hard for some Muslims to understand.
 
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What soo grand about this? Many Sultanates allow Churches! Apart from Saudi OTHER SULTANATES (non liberal non secular and non tolerant countries allow churches)

What is soo grand about this? This tax has been extinct for a while now! In fact MANY Middle eastern countries have tax free pay...why do you think many flock there for jobs ....to intolerant govt?

non liberal non secular and non tolerant SULTANATES such as Oman, Brunei, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait doesnt have this either...


Meh,i'd like to see all those sultanates when they'll have hundreds of thousands /millions of christian immigrants pra ticing their religion and proselitysing.You know well that is not the case but you like beating a dead horse,that;s why debating it's pointless.Nevermind the occasional church storming in these states like in Pakistan,Egypt accompanied by the casual killing of christians by muslim mobs.But hey ! They allow churches,they're just like Europe !

Probably that's why numbers of christians are dwindling in Pak,Egypt while numbers of muslims rise in Europe.
 
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Meh,i'd like to see all those sultanates when they'll have hundreds of thousands /millions of christian immigrants pra ticing their religion and proselitysing.You know well that is not the case but you like beating a dead horse,that;s why debating it's pointless.
Pry do go and visit such sultanates and see what media told you and hid from you....

I have been to some and I have family friends in others....

True they have other faults....but what you highlighted have been answered....


.Nevermind the occasional church storming in these states like in Pakistan,Egypt accompanied by the casual killing of christians by muslim mobs.But hey ! They allow churches,they're just like Europe !
you only mentioned 2 countries when there are over 50 Muslim countries in the world!

Yet these odd 50 intolerant countries never proclaimed to be tolerant nor have they proclaimed to be liberal....yet they have accommodated for alien religion and customs....THAT should be acknowledged....

Hence why I find nothing special in calling yourself liberal and secular and doing worse than those that dont call themselves anything!
 
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Pry do go and visit such sultanates and see what media told you and hid from you....

I have been to some and I have family friends in others....

True they have other faults....but what you highlighted have been answered....



you only mentioned 2 countries when there are over 50 Muslim countries in the world!


I didn't say all muslim countries are the same.Turkey for example stands out,so is Indonesia,probably more can be on this list as equals to Europe when it come to religious freedoms.

EDIT:Sry,scratch the Indonesia part ,it looks like they indulge in some christian beheading,burning of churches from time to time ,sometimes with the State as a passive witness just to show that pesky christian minority who the real boss is,it doesn't matter that those beheaded are school girls.They even have blashpemy laws ...equals to Europe my a$$
 
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Christianity is the religion of 2.5% of the population of Oman, which are 64,000 persons. 90 Christian congregations exist in Oman. Almost all Christians are from other countries. Most of them are from the Philippines, India or Western countries. At least one St Thomas Christian church is present in Oman. More than 50 different Christian groups, fellowships, and assemblies are active in the Muscat metropolitan area. The Protestant Church of Oman, the Catholic Diocese of Oman and the al Amana Center (interdenominational Christian) are recognized by the Ministry of Endowments and Religious Affairs. There are Christian schools in Oman.


Christianity in Kuwait is a minority religion, accounting for 10–20% of the country's population, or 650,000 people. Kuwait's Christians can be divided into 2 groups. The first group are Christians who are native Kuwaitis, they number approximately between 200 and 400 people. The second group, who make up the majority of Christians in Kuwait, are expatriates from various countries around the world.

Kuwait's native Christian population is diverse. In 1999, there were between 200 and 400 Christian Kuwaiti citizens. In June 2013, there were 256 Christian Kuwaiti citizens residing in Kuwait. There are reportedly 200 native Kuwaiti Christian families.


Christian Kuwaitis can be divided into 2 groups. The first group includes the earliest Kuwaiti Christians, who originated from Iraq and Turkey.They have assimilated into Kuwaiti society, like their Muslim counterparts, and tend to speak Arabic with a Kuwaiti dialect; their food and culture are also predominantly Kuwaiti. The make up roughly a quarter of Kuwait's Christian population. The rest (roughly three-quarters) of Christian Kuwaitis make up the second group. They are more recent arrivals in the 1950s and 1960s, mostly Kuwaitis of Palestinian ancestry who left Palestine after 1948. There are also smaller numbers who originally hail from Syria and Lebanon. This second group is not as assimilated as the first group, as their food, culture, and Arabic dialect still retain a Levant feel. However, they are just as patriotic as the former group, and tend to be proud of their adopted homeland, with many serving in the army, police, civil, and foreign service. Most of Kuwait's citizen Christians belong to 12 large families, with theShammas (from Turkey) and the Shuhaibar (from Palestine) families being some of the more prominent ones.


Kuwait is the only GCC country besides Bahrain to have a local Christian population who hold citizenship.


Ahh Bahrain sorry not Qatar but Bahrain!


The Christian community in Qatar is a diverse mix of European, North and South American, Asian, Middle Eastern and African expatriates. They form around 13.8% of the total population (2010)

In May 2005, representatives of Christian churches in Qatar signed an agreement with the Qatari Government for a fifty-year lease on a large piece of property on the outskirts of Doha on which they intended to erect six churches at their own expense. The churches were expected to pay nominal lease fees of a few hundred dollars a year, renewable after ten years. The property was expected to include an Anglican church that may also be used by other Protestant denominations, a church to serve thirty four Indian-Christian congregations, a church for the country's small but influential Coptic community, and a site for two Orthodox churches, one Greek and one Eastern Rite. In December 2005, the foundation stone for the Catholic Church was laid and the ground-breaking took place at the end of April 2006. A board composed of members of all the Christian churches liaises directly with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs regarding church matters. Each church has been granted permission to apply for visas for visiting clerics to preside over and assist in church services. Previously, Catholics and other Christians were limited to informal group meetings in homes.

The Anglican Church of the Epiphany, was officially opened on 21 September 2013 and consecrated on 28 September 2013.The church sanctuary can accommodate up to 650 worshipers. The Anglican Centre, managed by the Anglican Church in Qatar, accommodates 59 additional Evangelical, Pentecostal and Protestant congregations.

The St Issac and St George Greek Orthodox Church serves the orthodox communities numbering about 10,000 people from the Middle East, Asia, Syria and Africa...

Yet none of these: Oman, Kuwait nor Qatar brag liberal views nor are these Sultanates secular!

I didn't say all muslim countries are the same.Turkey for example stands out,so is Indonesia,probably more can be on this list as equals to Europe when it come to religious freedoms.
I was about to point Indonesia....

EDIT:Sry,scratch the Indonesia part ,it looks like they indulge in some christian beheading,burning of churches from time to time ,sometimes with the State as a passive witness just to show that pesky christian minority who the real boss is,it doesn't matter that those beheaded are school girls.They even have blashpemy laws ...equals to Europe my a$$
Indonesia also had a clan of head hunters who didnt check your faith before they chopped your heads...it was some vodoo or something....

I didnt pick Indonesia...mind you I stated 50 plus countries...its your job to show me how these non liberal non secular and non tolerant are worse than Europe!


Step out of what media feeds you and breathe in some air before you go crazy over some comments of one who has visited some of these countries!

Christians in Bahrain make up about 10% of the population. Bahrain has had a native Christian community for many centuries, with the first recorded presence dating back to the 12th century. Expatriate Christians however, make up the majority of Christians in Bahrain, while native Christian Bahrainis (who hold Bahraini citizenship) make up a much smaller community. Alees Samaan, the current Bahraini ambassador to the United Kingdom, is a native Christian.

Yet you dont hear Bahrain, Kuwait, Qatar, Oman, Brunei crying over their churches and pasting the rights they give to Christians in their faces or asking kids to get out of school due to lack of tolerance when these very countries are SULTANATES meaning NON SECULAR, non tolerant and def non liberal!

Like I said they have other probs yes! Never denied it but what you were chest thumping about Europe isnt liberism nor tolerance...it is an empty banner where even non liberal non secular and non tolerant are doing better!
 
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Meh,i'd like to see all those sultanates when they'll have hundreds of thousands /millions of christian immigrants pra ticing their religion and proselitysing.You know well that is not the case but you like beating a dead horse,that;s why debating it's pointless.Nevermind the occasional church storming in these states like in Pakistan,Egypt accompanied by the casual killing of christians by muslim mobs.But hey ! They allow churches,they're just like Europe !

Probably that's why numbers of christians are dwindling in Pak,Egypt while numbers of muslims rise in Europe.

Well you guys are welcoming them muslims on red carpets and giving more benefits to them compared to natives lol.
 
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Me neither, just like people believe in the age old practice of classifying their society into and upper class and lower class castes. Like Brahmins and Dalits. And then Dalits get raped.
Caste system is getting uprooted in India very fast and now only exists in rural areas.
Btw there;Brahmins are loosing there power as more and more lower caste people are getting at higher positions due to caste system.
 
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Now let's see al those countries "equal to Europe" in rights that you've listened.



In Kuwait, it is not allowed to proselytize Muslims.STRIKE ONE.

In Oman it is not allowed to proselytize Muslims.STRIKE TWO.So,pls refrain to compare these with Europe,it's just silly.

Christianity is the religion of 2.5% of the population of Oman, which are 64,000 persons. 90 Christian congregations exist in Oman. Almost all Christians are from other countries. Most of them are from the Philippines, India or Western countries. At least one St Thomas Christian church is present in Oman. More than 50 different Christian groups, fellowships, and assemblies are active in the Muscat metropolitan area. The Protestant Church of Oman, the Catholic Diocese of Oman and the al Amana Center (interdenominational Christian) are recognized by the Ministry of Endowments and Religious Affairs. There are Christian schools in Oman.

Proselytizing Muslims is forbidden IN Oman.STRIKE ONE!.



Christianity in Kuwait is a minority religion, accounting for 10–20% of the country's population, or 650,000 people. Kuwait's Christians can be divided into 2 groups. The first group are Christians who are native Kuwaitis, they number approximately between 200 and 400 people. The second group, who make up the majority of Christians in Kuwait, are expatriates from various countries around the world.

Kuwait's native Christian population is diverse. In 1999, there were between 200 and 400 Christian Kuwaiti citizens. In June 2013, there were 256 Christian Kuwaiti citizens residing in Kuwait. There are reportedly 200 native Kuwaiti Christian families.


Christian Kuwaitis can be divided into 2 groups. The first group includes the earliest Kuwaiti Christians, who originated from Iraq and Turkey.They have assimilated into Kuwaiti society, like their Muslim counterparts, and tend to speak Arabic with a Kuwaiti dialect; their food and culture are also predominantly Kuwaiti. The make up roughly a quarter of Kuwait's Christian population. The rest (roughly three-quarters) of Christian Kuwaitis make up the second group. They are more recent arrivals in the 1950s and 1960s, mostly Kuwaitis of Palestinian ancestry who left Palestine after 1948. There are also smaller numbers who originally hail from Syria and Lebanon. This second group is not as assimilated as the first group, as their food, culture, and Arabic dialect still retain a Levant feel. However, they are just as patriotic as the former group, and tend to be proud of their adopted homeland, with many serving in the army, police, civil, and foreign service. Most of Kuwait's citizen Christians belong to 12 large families, with theShammas (from Turkey) and the Shuhaibar (from Palestine) families being some of the more prominent ones.


Kuwait is the only GCC country besides Bahrain to have a local Christian population who hold citizenship.

In Kuwait, it is not allowed to proselytize Muslims.STRIKE TWO!!.



Ahh Bahrain sorry not Qatar but Bahrain!


The Christian community in Qatar is a diverse mix of European, North and South American, Asian, Middle Eastern and African expatriates. They form around 13.8% of the total population (2010)

In May 2005, representatives of Christian churches in Qatar signed an agreement with the Qatari Government for a fifty-year lease on a large piece of property on the outskirts of Doha on which they intended to erect six churches at their own expense. The churches were expected to pay nominal lease fees of a few hundred dollars a year, renewable after ten years. The property was expected to include an Anglican church that may also be used by other Protestant denominations, a church to serve thirty four Indian-Christian congregations, a church for the country's small but influential Coptic community, and a site for two Orthodox churches, one Greek and one Eastern Rite. In December 2005, the foundation stone for the Catholic Church was laid and the ground-breaking took place at the end of April 2006. A board composed of members of all the Christian churches liaises directly with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs regarding church matters. Each church has been granted permission to apply for visas for visiting clerics to preside over and assist in church services. Previously, Catholics and other Christians were limited to informal group meetings in homes.

The Anglican Church of the Epiphany, was officially opened on 21 September 2013 and consecrated on 28 September 2013.The church sanctuary can accommodate up to 650 worshipers. The Anglican Centre, managed by the Anglican Church in Qatar, accommodates 59 additional Evangelical, Pentecostal and Protestant congregations.

The St Issac and St George Greek Orthodox Church serves the orthodox communities numbering about 10,000 people from the Middle East, Asia, Syria and Africa...

Yet none of these: Oman, Kuwait nor Qatar brag liberal views nor are these Sultanates secular!

I was about to point Indonesia....

Indonesia also had a clan of head hunters who didnt check your faith before they chopped your heads...it was some vodoo or something....

I didnt pick Indonesia...mind you I stated 50 plus countries...its your job to show me how these non liberal non secular and non tolerant are worse than Europe!


Step out of what media feeds you and breathe in some air before you go crazy over some comments of one who has visited some of these countries!


Now,my personalfavourite on your list...Brunei !

Contact with Christians in other countries, the import of Bibles and public celebration of Christmasare banned by decree

Christians in Brunei are not allowed to proselytize

Marriages between Christians and Muslims are prohibited.

Schools are not allowed to teach Christianity.

Yeah,they're just like Europe.

STRIKE THREE...you're out !
 
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well, I oppose it, you could hide a rocket launcher under that damn tent man, i support "Dupatta" or "Hijab"
 
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Now let's see al those countries "equal to Europe" in rights that you've listened.



In Kuwait, it is not allowed to proselytize Muslims.STRIKE ONE.

In Oman it is not allowed to proselytize Muslims.STRIKE TWO.So,pls refrain to compare these with Europe,it's just silly.

In Syria,Turkey you are allowed to proselytize.But with civil war ,syria will be off the list.
 
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Think about it this way. They are trying to force a woman to take off her clothes. That doesn't sound right either
I don't think like that's taking off the cover of the face is not same as taking off cloths. When you cover your face, you can use it for fraud too that is why I am uncomfortable. I am OK if you cover everything else, but face as face is identity. Covering face is hiding identity.

True, but how much? How much freedom is right? What family values should be followed and what should be discarded as old fashioned?
This is not a family value, some people decided how other should behave and enforced on others, than few centuries past people have no idea what exactly happened. In the name of religion lot of things are forced which might not been in original form. I am fine with people doing it on their own, but their are fatwas at time to wear burkha which means there is not just the will part. That is where my objection is coming from.
 
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She can always go to another school.

Also, doing the final stages of A'levels at age 16 implies that she is talented.

“I was born in Britain. I know perfect English, I enjoy doing the normal, typical things like drinking tea and eating biscuits. Britain claims to be multicultural, meaning they accept different kinds of people.”

Man, those people were boring then, and boring now.
 
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