Tolkien's Lord of the Rings and the Turks

[fallstuff]

Kitni Ghatiya soch hai... abey itna free time kahan se aata hai.. Saala har cheez main yehi sochte ho ki West buri hai , Islam fallan hain... dhimak hai.. bhasad kaat lo...

wt* was that ? Can somebody translate that.

 

[fallstuff]

When I first saw Lord of the Rings, I loved it, but the the elephant thing for some reason I thought was out of place. Now we all know why !!! Tolkien had some serious issues.

 

[Vassnti]

Tolkien even chose the name "Uruk-Hai" for some of his nastiest creations, fighting forces of Sauron who were a cross between orcs and goblins. This was surely borrowed from the "Yuruk", nomadic tribesmen used as auxiliary soldiers by the Ottomans.[/B] Few readers would have known that; but most would have got a whiff of something Asiatic here. For one thing Tolkien was outstandingly good at was tapping into the subconscious of our own, European, cultural history.

Sadly Nope, Uruk-Hai came from one of tolkiens many"invented" languages, invented in part that is as he borrowed heavily from other languages for them as he did for the elvish and dwarven runes.

The name "Uruk-hai" has the element Uruk, which is a Black Speech word related to Orc, related to the word "Urko" in Tolkien's invented language of Quenya. The element hai means "folk", so "Uruk-hai" is "Orc-folk". A similar term is "Olog-hai" ("troll-folk"), used for a breed of especially strong and vicious trolls capable of surviving sunlight.

Christopher Tolkien describes "Uruks" as an anglicization of "Uruk-hai" and his father used the two terms interchangeably a number of times. While "Uruk-hai" means simply "Orc-folk", the term was reserved for the soldier orcs of Mordor and Isengard. The larger orcs called the smaller breeds snaga ("slave").

As for the Oliphaunts or Mumakil, they were used by both sides in the wars of middle earth, by the troops of Ithilien in the third age and by the Haradrim ( men of the south) in the lord of the rings.

Lots of authors steal bits from history to put in books, the old write what you know, doesnt mean your saying one side or the other wa the bads guys in history.

One thing to look at when you watch the movie though, that not CGR scenery from the boffins at Weta workshop that the real NZ half a day and i can drive to most of the places they shot the movie

Nauthannen i ned ôl reniannen

 

[fallstuff]

Sadly Nope, Uruk-Hai came from one of tolkiens many"invented" languages, invented in part that is as he borrowed heavily from other languages for them as he did for the elvish and dwarven runes.



As for the Oliphaunts or Mumakil, they were used by both sides in the wars of middle earth, by the troops of Ithilien in the third age and by the Haradrim ( men of the south) in the lord of the rings.

Lots of authors steal bits from history to put in books, the old write what you know, doesnt mean your saying one side or the other wa the bads guys in history.

One thing to look at when you watch the movie though, that not CGR scenery from the boffins at Weta workshop that the real NZ half a day and i can drive to most of the places they shot the movie

Nauthannen i ned ôl reniannen

Overall I think the movies were simply brilliant. The acting was beyond superb, takes you to this strange middle earth.

Its just the overall tone of the movie is strikingly similar to the 'Holy League', the seige, and how Church used to describe Ottoman Empire as a religious invasion instead some guy who just wants more.

Interestingly I find similar sentiment in SECULAR Europe today. The Renaissance and modern life indeed changed very little.

 

[Vassnti]

Overall I think the movies were simply brilliant. The acting was beyond superb, takes you to this strange middle earth.

Its just the overall tone of the movie is strikingly similar to the 'Holy League', the seige, and how Church used to describe Ottoman Empire as a religious invasion instead some guy who just wants more.

Interestingly I find similar sentiment in SECULAR Europe today. The Renaissance and modern life indeed changed very little.

Strange perhaps just the areas of history i have studied most the LOTR plot always reminded me more of Lebensraum, sorry i know you live on all that lovley land but we want it and your choice is slavery or death when we come to take it.

Though i do acept that the silmarillion and Tolkiens other books on middle earth were much more on the good verses evil slant. Then it seems no matter what the conflict your side is always the good guys and the other guy is evil.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

where does India fit in LOR triology??? was it land of elf??

People with the elephants, hehehe.

 

[ARSENAL6]

If you took things in face value of Lord of the Rings then yes you would see as if is the struggle of the west against the evil Muslim empire (see the poeple of Mordor and how they are dressed ) whick Tolken was accused as being islmamphobe in the post. However look even closer to the story and you'll noce something very important in Islamic events.

THe Lord of the Rings resemble the last age, where Iman Medi and his army fights Djal one eyed beast With Jesus(Pbuh)
the White Wizard Gandalf is the Medi
Sauroman is Djal
and the King is Prophet Jesus

Its Noel Malcolm finding I have a problem:

But wasn't the whole Turkish campaign driven by the spirit of Islamic jihad? Apparently not. Mehmet himself was motivated partly by Realpolitik, and partly by romantic notions derived from his study of Latin and Greek authors. As for his troops, we have the opinion of his own spiritual adviser, Sheikh Ak Shemsettin: "The number of those who are ready to sacrifice their lives for the love of Allah is extremely small. On the other hand, if they glimpse booty they will run towards certain death

He didnit provide proper proof to solidfiy his claims, Anyone could come quote things off the air.

If so where the proof.

 

[Jon Snow]

ok- biggest fan of LOTR of all time - and had to make the tiny correction - Uruk Hai were creatures of Saruman not Sauron and played no role in the siege of Minas Tirith

 

[Burger Boy]

I do not know much about history of the Ottomans nor do I know much about Lord of the Rings....

but I was wondering.....Saruman, isn't related to Suleiman the Magnificent in any way, is it?

 

[Anka]

I agree with that idea Mordor is Turkey as a Turk since I am very familiar with the book and movie. Sam try to save his friend under a crescent in mordor, characters implies dozens of times that is west-east issue, mordor on map very similar to Turkey, Rohan cavalry charge is the same as what happened in Ottoman siege of Vienna and lots of other things. Also writer himself was in ww1 and lost 3 friends,(check his biography) believing every British propaganda told to British soldiers(they were claiming we eat human flesh) furthermore after long allied bombardment some coasts of Turkey were exactly like Mordor(in real not so different from rest of continental Europe). It seems like he really believed that they were there to save western world from evil Turks. I respect the guy for his work, but in mind he is no different from Anders Behring Breivik the Oslo bomber or the Crusaders who were saving Constantinople by plundering it while it was still Christian. Scapegoat Turks are always there to blame

 

[Don Jaguar]

I agree with that idea Mordor is Turkey as a Turk since I am very familiar with the book and movie. Sam try to save his friend under a crescent in mordor, characters implies dozens of times that is west-east issue, mordor on map very similar to Turkey, Rohan cavalry charge is the same as what happened in Ottoman siege of Vienna and lots of other things. Also writer himself was in ww1 and lost 3 friends,(check his biography) believing every British propaganda told to British soldiers(they were claiming we eat human flesh) furthermore after long allied bombardment some coasts of Turkey were exactly like Mordor(in real not so different from rest of continental Europe). It seems like he really believed that they were there to save western world from evil Turks. I respect the guy for his work, but in mind he is no different from Anders Behring Breivik the Oslo bomber or the Crusaders who were saving Constantinople by plundering it while it was still Christian. Scapegoat Turks are always there to blame

Anyways welcome to PDF!!!

 

[r3alist]

Tolkein was also a Christian, so naturally history will be a big factor in his writings.

Also notice the reference to the black flag of khorasian?

 

[Anka]

thank you, and sorry if I sounded a little bit too angry about this. And yes I noticed the khorasian flag. Thousand of years and they still capable of reviving old enmities.

 

[EagleEyes]

Man good to have the LOTR fans here.

 

[ice_man]

But wasn't the whole Turkish campaign driven by the spirit of Islamic jihad? Apparently not. Mehmet himself was motivated partly by Realpolitik, and partly by romantic notions derived from his study of Latin and Greek authors. As for his troops, we have the opinion of his own spiritual adviser, Sheikh Ak Shemsettin: "The number of those who are ready to sacrifice their lives for the love of Allah is extremely small. On the other hand, if they glimpse booty they will run towards certain death."

no proof of his claim and along with that he pushed the whole islamic beliefs into a limbo

the prophet prophesied that whoever conquers Constantinople will be a blessed king with his muslim army being a blessed and just army!


now if we think of mehmet as an opportunist thug then the prophecy fails too!

as for the sheer numbers of muslim army vs the city's army! well firstly mehmet sultan did not overwhelm the defences with sheer numbers he made Orban's bombard Gun! as well as carrying the ships on land inorder to attack!!!!

you cannot discredit sultan mehmet's sheer tactical brilliance and neither can you prove his motives as being rogue! besides no matter what happened his army treated the inhabitants of the city better than the crusaders had treated them!