To Promote Religious Tourism In Pakistan, PM Imran Khan Meets High-Level Delegation Of Buddhist Monk

[Ritual]

Exactly. I'm not having these raving bhakts lay claim to my polytheistic ancient ancestors. The Hindutva narrative is dependent on rewriting history.

Also they are trying to completely whitewash their dirty history, especially in regards to how Hindu kings crushed Buddhists, and there are even well substantiated research showing many Hindu temples were built over Buddhist monuments themselves. So their own dodgy victim mentality needs to heavily scrutinised.

https://caravanmagazine.in/reviews-and-essays/dn-jha-destruction-buddhist-sites

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Also they are trying to completely whitewash their dirty history, especially in regards to how Hindu kings crushed Buddhists, and there are even well substantiated research showing many Hindu temples were built over Buddhist monuments themselves. So their own dodgy victim mentality needs to heavily scrutinised.

https://caravanmagazine.in/reviews-and-essays/dn-jha-destruction-buddhist-sites

Yet Amit Shah parrots on about the Hindutva state rescuing persecuted Buddhism.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

This pertains only to the ruling dynasties till Mahmud Ghaznavi

Mauryans------------> Till Ashoka Hindu, then Buddhist and then from Dasaratha onwards Hindu
Indo-Greeks---------> Till Menander Ancient Greek religion,then Buddhist
Northern-Sakas------>Hindus
Indo-Parthians--------> Zoroastrians
Kushanas-------------->Till Kadphises,Central Asian Shamanism,then Hindu,Kanishka onwards Buddhist,Vasudeva onwards Hindu
Western Sakas------->Hindu
Hunas------------------>Central Asian Shamanism and then Mihirkula onwards Hindu
Hindu Shahis--------->Hindu
Chach of Alor---------->Hindu
Rai dynasty------------->Buddhist
Karkota dynasty-------->Hindu

This is quite far from accurate and you missed countless other dynasties.

The pre-Achaemenid Kingdoms of Gandhara, Kasmira, Madra, Sindhu, etc... were primarily followers of Vedism.

During Achaemenid rule, who were mostly Zoroastrian, Vedism remained the dominant religion.

The ancient Ror dynasty of Sindh was Buddhist.

The Macedonians introduced Hellenic Polytheism which would have a lasting effect, during this period, the taboo on idols was also broken.

Despite the Mauryan invasion, the widespread religion was still a boiling pot of Vedism, local folk religions and Greek polytheism. In this time, Buddhism also began to spread.

The Greco-Bactrian rule saw the development of Hellenic Buddhism; especially in Gandhara, which would later go on to serve as the seat of Buddhism in the region.

The Indo-Greek Kings, though initially followers of Greek Polytheism, began to convert to Greco-Buddhism. This shift was also seen among the populace. It is under their reign that Buddhism becomes to dominant religion in the Indus Region.

The Sakas began to adopt Greco-Buddhism as soon as they migrated and largely integrated into the native culture.

The following Kushans were primarily Buddhist and it is under their reign that Buddhism reaches it's prime in modern-day Pakistan, spreading like wild-fire from it's source in Gandhara to Central Asia and onwards to China and the Far East.

The Indo-Sassanians retained Zoroastrianism as their religion, though the majority of the population still followed Buddhism.

The Rai Empire of Sindh was Buddhist.

There is uncertainty over what religion the Alchon Kings followed, we know that out of their rulers; Mihirakula and Gokarna may have been followers of Shivaism. This era saw the decline of Buddhism. The invasion would leave Kashmir under Hindu rule, with occasional Buddhist rulers and chiefs. This would end when Raja Rinchan, a Buddhist King would rebel and reunite Kashmir under Buddhist rule. He would also eventually convert to Islam; becoming the first Muslim King of Kashmir.

The following Nezaks were primarily Buddhist/Zoroastrian.

The Kabul Shahis of Kabul Valley and Gandhara were Buddhist, however their last ruler was deposed by a Brahmin minister.

The Chach dynasty of Sindh arose after a Brahmin minister deposed the Buddhist King through conspiracy, this dynasty faced significant resistance from the majority Buddhist population and it was no surprise when the natives joined Muhammad Bin Qasim's army in droves in an effort to topple the usurpers.

The Kingdom of Taank primarily followed Punjabi folk religions.

There are many other dynasties I can talk of, but I hope you get the picture.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

This is quite far from accurate and you missed countless other dynasties.

The pre-Achaemenid Kingdoms of Gandhara, Kasmira, Madra, Sindhu, etc... were primarily followers of Vedism.

During Achaemenid rule, who were mostly Zoroastrian, Vedism remained the dominant religion.

The ancient Ror dynasty of Sindh was Buddhist.

The Macedonians introduced Hellenic Polytheism which would have a lasting effect, during this period, the taboo on idols was also broken.

Despite the Mauryan invasion, the widespread religion was still a boiling pot of Vedism, local folk religions and Greek polytheism. In this time, Buddhism also began to spread.

The Greco-Bactrian rule saw the development of Hellenic Buddhism; especially in Gandhara, which would later go on to serve as the seat of Buddhism in the region.

The Indo-Greek Kings, though initially followers of Greek Polytheism, began to convert to Greco-Buddhism. This shift was also seen among the populace. It is under their reign that Buddhism becomes to dominant religion in the Indus Region.

The Sakas began to adopt Greco-Buddhism as soon as they migrated and largely integrated into the native culture.

The following Kushans were primarily Buddhist and it is under their reign that Buddhism reaches it's prime in modern-day Pakistan, spreading like wild-fire from it's source in Gandhara to Central Asia and onwards to China and the Far East.

The Indo-Sassanians retained Zoroastrianism as their religion, though the majority of the population still followed Buddhism.

The Rai Empire of Sindh was Buddhist.

There is uncertainty over what religion the Alchon Kings followed, we know that out of their rulers; Mihirakula and Gokarna may have been followers of Shivaism. This era saw the decline of Buddhism. The invasion would leave Kashmir under Hindu rule, with occasional Buddhist rulers and chiefs. This would end when Raja Rinchan, a Buddhist King would rebel and reunite Kashmir under Buddhist rule. He would also eventually convert to Islam; becoming the first Muslim King of Kashmir.

The following Nezaks were primarily Buddhist/Zoroastrian.

The Kabul Shahis of Kabul Valley and Gandhara were Buddhist, however their last ruler was deposed by a Brahmin minister.

The Chach dynasty of Sindh arose after a Brahmin minister deposed the Buddhist King through conspiracy, this dynasty faced significant resistance from the majority Buddhist population and it was no surprise when the natives joined Muhammad Bin Qasim's army in droves in an effort to topple the usurpers.

The Kingdom of Taank primarily followed Punjabi folk religions.

There are many other dynasties I can talk of, but I hope you get the picture.

Thank you much better post than mine, Mine was a back of the envelope calculation based on Schwartzberg's A Historical Atlas of South Asia..Of course the religion of the rulers most probably only occasionally reflected the religion of the ruled

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Even Mahabharata itself (400 BC-400 AD) said that the Indus basin region was not fit anymore for Vedic sacrifices because of intrusion of Mlecchas (Pahlavas,Sakas,Kushanas,Yavanas

That's actually not true, none of the people mentioned belonging to Aratta and Vahika culture are foreign.

"The regions are called by the name of Aratta. The people residing there are called the Vahikas. (VIII.30.47) The lowest of brahmanas also are residing there from very remote times. They are without the Veda and without knowledge, without sacrifice and without the power to assist at other's sacrifices. They are all fallen and many amongst them have been begotten by Shudras upon other peoples' girls. The gods never accept any gifts from them. The Prasthalas, the Madras, the Gandharas, the Arattas, those called Khasas, the Vasatis, the Sindhus and the Sauviras are as blamable in their practices.'" (VIII.30.74) "

All of the peoples mentioned are natives of the Indus Region.

The reason lies with the divergence that occurred in the Middle-Vedic period. The people of the Indus Region retained the original Vedic religion and culture; while the fringe Vedic tribes that migrated into the plains of the Ganges adopted the local cultures and religions of the region, so much so that it became completely different and even incompatible with original Vedism, this also marked the beginning of the late "Vedic" period.

The caste system was never a part of early Vedic society and was adopted much later by the fringe Vedic tribes that conquered the Ganges region and imposed the caste system as a means of maintaining racial hierarchy in the face of the overwhelming amount of natives.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

That's actually not true, none of the people mentioned belonging to Aratta and Vahika culture are foreign.

"The regions are called by the name of Aratta. The people residing there are called the Vahikas. (VIII.30.47) The lowest of brahmanas also are residing there from very remote times. They are without the Veda and without knowledge, without sacrifice and without the power to assist at other's sacrifices. They are all fallen and many amongst them have been begotten by Shudras upon other peoples' girls. The gods never accept any gifts from them. The Prasthalas, the Madras, the Gandharas, the Arattas, those called Khasas, the Vasatis, the Sindhus and the Sauviras are as blamable in their practices.'" (VIII.30.74) "

All of the peoples mentioned are natives of the Indus Region.

The reason lies with the divergence that occurred in the Middle-Vedic period. The people of the Indus Region retained the original Vedic religion and culture; while the fringe Vedic tribes that migrated into the plains of the Ganges adopted the local cultures and religions of the region, so much so that it became completely different and even incompatible with original Vedism, this also marked the beginning of the late "Vedic" period.

The caste system was never a part of early Vedic society and was adopted much later by the fringe Vedic tribes that conquered the Ganges region and imposed the caste system as a means of maintaining racial hierarchy in the face of the overwhelming amount of natives.

I think you are onto something here..I donot know whether your thesis will stand up to academic rigeur or not, but this makes for fascinating reading. Would you consider the Shramana movements in and around Magadha a fightback against this Middle-Period Vedicism? I have been trying to find literature pertaining to the Tantric Buddhism period of Bengal. The historical Buddha himself is too dry,wry and humourless for me. I like spiritual traditions that take into account bodily energies, human emotions, ambitions and instincts...by the way "Greater Magadha" by Bronkhorst may be an interesting read for you...It is available freely at a handfulofleaves


Even Patanjali around 120 BCE said that the newer Brahmins,from far eastern Gangetic plain,arriving at Taxila to study cannot be real Brahmins as they are as black as sack of beans in the market...So you might be upto something here

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

There is one theory which claims that the Vedas were followed by the original dwellers of India and there was a massive Aryan invasion in India from Iran at some point of time. The Aryans wiped out Vedas and instead made their own gods like Shiva, a part of Hinduism.

That theory holds no credibility in the academic world. The Vedic Aryans followed variants of Indo-European deities; such as Indra, Agni, Varuna, Mitra,etc... These deities would become less prominent among the Vedic Aryans that migrated to the Gangetic region, where a new set of deities were introduced such as Shiva, Krishna, Hanuman, Ganesha, Kali, Ganga etc...

Hence the opposite is more plausible, that these later deities were instead adopted from the local people that inhabited the Ganges plains.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Listen, if you cannot accept public opinion then I'm sorry. You are basically trying to force your perspective on me. In the age of Kings and empires there were conquests, bloody conquests. Every body suffered be it Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus and Christians.

By telling Muslims persecuted Buddhists I did not make any anti Muslim remark. Im just teaching you history.

In the US, children are taught about the history of 9-11 and how Al Qaeda destroyed the twin towers? Does that make American parents islamophobic?

@The Eagle


Yes I was telling that. Also I did not say anything anti Islamic. I was recalling history. Some people simply cannot get it.


Buddhism declined due to number of reasons. Persecution is just one reason. There are other reasons too like lack of royal patronage, migration, conversion to other religions, decline of Buddhist kingdoms etc.


Hindus are correct when they said that everyone in South Asia was Hindu.

See, Hinduism is not the actual term. It is Sanatan Dharma which is the actual term. Hindu refers to worshippers of Sanatan dharma, Buddhists and Jains.

Just like Abrahamic faiths, Indian faiths also has common roots and religious Trinity.

Abdahamic faiths which are Islam, Christianity and Judaism is same

While Indian or Hindu religions like Sanatana Dharma, Buddhism and Jainism is same or has similar roots.

Who's the public? Curry eating hindus?

Buddhism declined in Pakistan and Afghanistan due to Hindu and Zoroastrianism primarily. Muslims also persecuted Buddhists but Buddhism was already in a weak position when Muslims invaded these region.

Pakistan and Afghanistan especially Gandhara region was primarily Buddhist region. After the Mauryan empire and Kushan empire, the region was invaded by Zoroastrians from Iran, particularly the Sassanids and Parthians and by Hindus from India. By 7th century Gandhara was a Hindu colony ruled by Hindu Kabul Shahis. Hindu King Mihirkula also persecuted Buddhists. Afterwards during Muslim rule the last remaining Buddhists also disappeared.

Kashmir was also Buddhist majority region till 7th century when Hindu Shaivite rulers invaded Kashmir. Afterwards Hinduism became the religion of the majority in Kashmir. Muslim rulers like Sikander Butshikan also persecuted Buddhists.

Provide proof

@The Eagle this troll seems to like you. What's the story? Are u supporting his lies and propaganda?

 

[H. Dawary]

The current Sanatana Dharma which is Hinduism was never unitary in any sense. Buddhism and Jainism unlike Hinduism was always unitary.

The Hinduism practiced today was not the same some hundreds and thousands of years ago.

The early Hindus were agni pujaris and nature worshippers. It was the time of the Vedas, I mean the Vedic period.

Then after the 4th century BC, Upanishads, Manusmriti, Bhagwad Gita and Ramayana emerged and replaced Vedas as primary texts. During this time new gods also appeared like Shiva, Krishna, Rama etc. Also Lord Indra, who was the most powerful God according to the Vedas was made less influential and Vishnu, Brahma and Shiva, the trimurti, was made the heart of Hindu religion.

There is one theory which claims that the Vedas were followed by the original dwellers of India and there was a massive Aryan invasion in India from Iran at some point of time. The Aryans wiped out Vedas and instead made their own gods like Shiva, a part of Hinduism.

Afterwards different forms of Hinduism appeared and new gods began to emerge. After the 4th century AD, Hindu gurus like Adi Shankacharya and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu also brought changes in Hinduism.

There are also many hindu festivals celebrated today which started very recently. Kali Puja, Durga puja etc started in the 12th century.

Did Aryans really invade India? Do you have any credible sources, I'd like to look into this part of history. Thanks!

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

The caste system in the Indus Region was overwhelmingly rejected, this is highlighted in a Brahmin's visit to the "land of the five rivers" (Aratta).

“that (region) where these five rivers, emerging from the mountains flow, this Aratta (country) is called Balhika where the Arya should not stay even for two days”.

"Having gone to the Bahlikas, I learnt the following. There, one first becomes a brahmana and then becomes a kshatriya. Thereafter, one becomes a vaishya, a shudra and finally a barber. Having become a barber, one once again becomes a brahmana. Having become a brahmana there, one is once again as a slave. In every family, there is only one virtuous brahmana. Everyone else follows one's desires. The Gandharas, the Madrakas and the Bahlikas possess limited intelligence."

"But on seeing the dharma practiced in the land of the five rivers, the grandfather cried, "Shame!". They are outcasts. They are born from servants. They are the performers of wicked deeds. That is the reason the grandfather condemned the dharma in the land of the five rivers. Though they followed their own dharma and that of their varna, he did not honour it."


Some Muslim rulers did in fact persecute Buddhists, though the target was non-Muslims in general.

Proof?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Oh wow I didn't know this. Can you tell me some reading material on this subject? I shall try a google search when I get home.

Factcheck: Buddhism was introduced by monk [Marantha] from Pakistan [Swabi, Gandhara - KPk] to what is South Korea [then Baekje Kingdom] way back in 384AD. Koreans are Buddhists because we converted them. In soft power terms this is a nuclear bomb.

Go to 5:50 where the ambassador tells how Pakistan and Korea have a thousand year plus relationship and how a Pakistani went to Korea and introduced them to Buddism. Again this is example of potent soft power. SK is extremely wealthy and we could do wonders by attracting SK tourists to Gandharan sites in Pakistan. As Pakistani soft power takes root in SK it opens other avenues for export etc.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Factcheck: Buddhism was introduced by monk [Marantha] from Pakistan [Swabi, Gandhara - KPk] to what is South Korea [then Baekje Kingdom] way back in 384AD. Koreans are Buddhists because we converted them. In soft power terms this is a nuclear bomb.

Go to 5:50 where the ambassador tells how Pakistan and Korea have a thousand year plus relationship and how a Pakistani went to Korea and introduced them to Buddism. Again this is example of potent soft power. SK is extremely wealthy and we could do wonders by attracting SK tourists to Gandharan sites in Pakistan. As Pakistani soft power takes root in SK it opens other avenues for export etc.

Problem is the most powerful Koreans are Christians now. The religiosity in Mahayana Buddhist countries is really tame. Better would be to court Theravada Buddhist countries and Vajrayana Buddhist countries. Thailand still spends billions of dollars for the sake of Buddhism. They recently paid for the Mahabodhi temple to be wrapped in pure Gold. Most Mahayana Buddhist countries are either under the yoke of atheistic communism ala China,Vietnam or just have grown out of religion ala Japan. in South Korea ,Christianity has more or less taken the wind out of the sails of Buddhism in a matter of 70 years


Remind somebody like Thaksin Sinawatra that Northern Pakistan was the place where Menander was taught Buddhism, and he will generously loosen his pockets. Northern Pakistan has a major place in the Pali Canon and literature. Two businessmen from Gandhara travelled to Bihar and were among the first lay followers of the Buddha

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Problem is the most powerful Koreans are Christians now.

That does not matter. This is all about PR. A gimmick to gain brand recognition. The minute details do not matter.

 

[Buddhistforlife]

Who's the public? Curry eating hindus?


Provide proof

@The Eagle this troll seems to like you. What's the story? Are u supporting his lies and propaganda?

Yes muslim rulers like Sikander Butshikan and Khilji did attack Buddhist temples and killed Buddhists, how does it make me anti Islam you tell me?

I'm sure in Pakistan history books there are stories about how Mongols invaded Baghdad and killed millions of Muslims and destroyed the house of wisdom. Does including those stories in history books make you anti Mongol?

You are a weirdo.
@The Eagle you decide

Who's the public? Curry eating hindus?


Provide proof

@The Eagle this troll seems to like you. What's the story? Are u supporting his lies and propaganda?

I tagged the moderator because I want him to see my posts and decide what's offensive In it.

I don't want to get banned because some naive person could not understand my person and decided to complain.

 

[War Thunder]

Very good initiative, not only it would bring needful forex but will help in building better soft image.
How I wish, this kind of initiatives keep moving to next steps where by people to people contact could be easy.
And one day I could explore the dreamed destinations.....

One day ...Some day...

You can explore them today. Indians are welcomed by our people. Just bring positivity and not malice in ur heart and u will find people more than welcoming
Visas are easy to get now.