What's new

To be a Muslim in India

A question for the internationally recognised terrorist, ideologue and mastermind of the 2008 Mumbai attack, Hafiz Saeed, resident of Lahore, who has just offered sanctuary in Pakistan to our superstar Shah Rukh Khan. Pakistan was carved out in 1947 to ensure security for this subcontinent's Muslims in a separate homeland. Why, six decades later, has Pakistan become the most insecure place for Muslims in the world? Why are more Muslims being killed each day, on an average, in Pakistan than in the rest of the Muslim world put together?

This continual mass murder is not being done by Hindus and Sikhs, who were once proud residents of Punjab and Sindh but are now merely a near-invisible trace. Some Pakistan leaders even express pride in the fact that non-Muslims , who constituted around 20 per cent of the population in 1947, have been reduced to less than 2 per cent. In contrast, the percentage of Muslims in secular India has increased since independence. Hindus and Sikhs are not killing Muslims in Pakistan; Muslims are murdering Muslims, and on a scale unprecedented in the history of Punjab, the North West Frontier and Sindh. Why?

There have been riots in India, some of them horrendous. But the graph is one of ebb from the peak of 1947. When a riot does occur, as in Maharashtra recently, civil society and media stand up to demand accountability, and the ground pressure of a secular democracy forces even reluctant governments to cooperate in punishment of the guilty. When Shias, or other sectarians, are mass-murdered in Pakistan on a regular basis, the killers celebrate a "duty" well done.

History's paradox is evident: Muslims today are safer in India than in Pakistan. The "muhajirs" who left the cities of Uttar Pradesh and Bihar in 1947 would have been far safer in Lucknow, Patna and dozens of cities in their original land than they are now in the tense streets and by-lanes of Karachi.

Could Shah Rukh Khan have become an international heart throb if his parents had joined the emigration in 1947? Since he is talented he would have gained some recognition on the fringes of elite society, but he could not have become a central presence of a popular culture that has seeped and spread to every tehsil and village. Nor is Shah Rukh the only Muslim superstar in Mumbai's film world; Salman Khan is bigger than him. Shah Rukh and Salman and Amir Khan do not hide their identity through an alias; their birth name is their public persona.

The television set in my office serves two main purposes: it shows cricket and offers access to an FM radio station which plays old film songs. A song by Muhammad Rafi was on the air while the previous paragraph was being written: Man re tu kahe na dheer dhare. It is a beautiful classic, written by Sahir Ludhianvi. Rafi, as his name confirms, was a Muslim. He was born in 1924 in western Punjab and came to Mumbai as a very young man in search of dreams. Those dreams had not come true by 1947. Rafi had the option of returning to Lahore. He chose to remain in Mumbai, and brought his family in what might be called the reverse direction. It was a wise choice. Mumbai made Rafi's voice immortal. Rafi, like India, was the distillation of many inspirations.

Hafiz Saeed and his ilk possess cramped, virulent minds which condemn the ragas upon which our subcontinent's music, both classic and popular, is based, as inimical. They want to destroy a shared Hindu-Muslim cultural heritage in which Muslim maestros took classical music to splendid heights under the patronage of padishahs, rajahs and nawabs . Instead of art, they possess vitriol, even as the violence they spawn turns Pakistan into a laboratory of chaos. They call themselves guardians of their nation, but they are in fact regressive theocrats who are shredding the Pakistan that Jinnah imagined.

There is an answer to the opening question. Extremists who reduce faith to a fortress do not understand a simple truth: faith cannot be partitioned. Islam was a revelation for mankind; it cannot be usurped by a minor tract of geography. Nations are created by and for men, within boundaries of language or culture or tribe. Religion comes from God; it is not a political tool for human ambition. Those who equate religion with nation distort the first and destroy the second. Pakistan has become a battlefield for dysfunctional forces because theocrats will not permit it to become a rational state.

Logic suggests a reciprocal offer: Pakistani Muslims would be safer in India. But that offer cannot extend to Hafiz Saeed. His mission is to be India's adversary. What he does not understand is that he is really Pakistan's enemy.

Questions for Hafiz Saeed by The Siege Within : MJ Akbar's blog-The Times Of India
 
This is a very important point. Criticising the wrong ideas of a section of a community must not be taken as the criticism of all in that community. You dont have to say minorities love India. No one questioned the patriotism of all of the minorities.

I was just replying to that poster who made it out like all the muslims who stayed back in 47, stayed back for the love of India - which we both know is not true. Its more like a combination of various factors some of which I pointed down. Even till the late 80s and early 90s that phenomenon could be easily observed in various 'old cities/walled cities' across India. Only after the Dec 6 '92 event and Mumbai riots, those phenomenon started to vanish primarily for the fear of a backlash on one hand and the younger generation loosing interest in Pakistan on the other hand. It was fine till recently where a certain streak of fundamentalism is again emerging. God knows where this will lead us this time.

p.s: Its not few illiterate idiots supporting Owaisi. Please look at the attendance at his speeches in Hyderabad and surrounding areas..tens of thousands..mostly educated youth.

KS, some of your posts and some of the others do reflect like every minority hate this country.. May be its me.. But I have a deep feeling like some of the posts reflects like what I mentioned above.. Please take it into consideration while posting such kind of things..I have known you since you joined this forum and I know how excellent your posts are.. But now a days unintentionaly, you are questioning the patriotism of every minority in this country..
 
KS, some of your posts and some of the others do reflect like every minority hate this country.. May be its me.. But I have a deep feeling like some of the posts reflects like what I mentioned above.. Please take it into consideration while posting such kind of things..I have known you since you joined this forum and I know how excellent your posts are.. But now a days unintentionaly, you are questioning the patriotism of every minority in this country..

Internet is just about the last place where Free Speech can be made without much restrictions and truth can be told without forcible editing. (... I am aware about facebook arrests) You want to limit that too ?

'Secular' Indians never cease to amaze me :lol:
 
KS, some of your posts and some of the others do reflect like every minority hate this country.. May be its me.. But I have a deep feeling like some of the posts reflects like what I mentioned above.. Please take it into consideration while posting such kind of things..I have known you since you joined this forum and I know how excellent your posts are.. But now a days unintentionaly, you are questioning the patriotism of every minority in this country..

I repeat - criticising a section of the misguided people in a community should & must not be taken as a criticism of the whole. Dont take it as such. You dont have to prove your patriotism to me or anyone else here.
 
Yusuf Patel - Mumbai Area, India profiles | LinkedIn

^^^^ I searched for Patel profiles on there and found this. My friend has Gujarati links but confirmed later on he is full Mumbaiakar living there for years (19% of Mumbai's population is Gujarati, many who are settled there for years upon years. These are all the Yusuf Patels and you will say as many are from mumbai as are from gujarat. ;)



Yusuf Patel - India profiles | LinkedIn
That is 8 Yusuf Patels on linkedin from Mumbai.

Then there are Asif Patels from India:

Asif Patel - Mumbai Area, India profiles | LinkedIn
Same with Asif Patel. 13 out of 57 in Mumbai, less than 5ttt in Gujarat

Stop nitpicking fights everywhere. You are not a little kid locked away in a fight cell or something that you start attacking people the moment you see them. I met a mumbaiaker who is a Muslim Patel... so you are wrong. Furthermore I found no proof the majority of Patels are Gujarati but I did find proof the majority of Muslim Patels are in Mumbai with some in Surat.

A kid plays with toys, labels the one called batman Hindu and joker Muslim then Batman kills Joker. When the kid grows up he realizes Batman isn't a Hindu and Joker isn't a Muslim. Then he acts mature and debates rather than coming for the purpose of bashing. Proven wrong, again KS. How old are you for the record?

Dear Haviz,

kashmiri pandit is kashmiir pandit even if he is in antartica,

and patels are gujjus wherver they might be.

@haviZsultan you are talking funny stuffs.:rofl::lol:

Patels are Gujarati, Patil are Marathis. Mumbai is a cosmo-politican city, you will even find a Tamil from Mumbai

even kya,seikhadon hain bhai.

So what's the issue in this dear ... Zia Ul Haq is the Islamic name any body can name his child ... It means Light of Truth ..

thats true but the name is a little uncommon and many recent convert names are given by the qzi saab.

my friend's name is sajjad hassan shareef,another friend is abi hassan E and the E stands for a hindu clan or a place in kerala.

You guys would know better-my friend said he has Gujju background and is from Mumbai and identifies as Mumbaiakar so it must be with ethnic Gujju's but a lot live in Mumbai. Patels can be marathis too like Gieve Patel and Anuradha Patel. Both are mumbaiakers. I think I missed some things. You may be right that the majority are of Gujju ethnicity. That is a question I didn't ask anyone. There was a Patel we caught in Pakistan too from Gujarat btw who was labelled as a spy...

My stuff is all in cute looking reports and shiny articles while some comes from sources who I annoy by talking politics... I have them stored in my PC and they are my primary source of information.

dude it is very simple,

patel is a gujrati surname,just like Gill is a jatt surname.

very very simple.

There is a difference?

huge difference.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Right
I only care about indian who are more secular and consider all Indian equal no matter what their religion.You are right i did equat Pakistanis and extremist indian hindu bcoz both of them have same thing in common destruction of indian secular fabric.Is not going to Happen Sorry


WRONG.

1. You should care deeply about what Indian Hindus think if you plan on living with them. Its amazing you have equated Pakistanis and Indian Hindus together. Then you wonder why we question your patriotism :rolleyes:

What you are saying if Hindu's do Gaddari then its financial gain and if Muslim do gaddari then its religion what a theory you are a genius i have to admit that so muslim ISI spy are working for them for free of charge right.Its Very Easy to recruit some body who lost every thing in communal violance so if we don't have riots and if we play on equal term for all indian then ISI wont find indian muslim to recruit easily.

2. 90 % of ISI spies are Hindus because that is roughly the population of Hindus in sensitive defence positions. These are ba$tars who sell their motherland for Money. (Not that it makes any difference, only for argument sake) Same is true for all corrupt politicians, police etc.....They certainly don't do it in the name of religion. This is same as a informer in China or USA as well. The same cannot be said true for muslim Indian ISI spies/terrorists. Islam plays an important part in their recruitment and their hate for hindus feed their activities.

Thats shows how much i hate the people who are spreading mischief in this beautifull country and become a spokesperson on behalf of india.and let the world assume that all indian hindus hate muslim in india.

3. You said "who the fCuk are you guys to point me", this shows the hate and paranoia in you. I am just one GUY...I am not a spokesperson for the Hindus in pdf or elsewhere.

Yeh its a threat to anybody who are endangering the secular fabric of india and get ready to fight 35 crore muslim along with christian,sikh,jews and majority hindu who are peace loving and secular.

That sounds like a threat .......and you accuse the Hindus of hate :rolleyes:

If You guys are more tolerated then why attack MF Husain .
In 1998 Husain's house was attacked by Hindu groups like Bajrang Dal and art works were vandalised. The leadership of Shiv Sena endorsed the attack. Twenty-six Bajrang Dal activists were arrested by the police.


Abdul Kalam was just an example ....... Vishwaroopam agitation shows who muslim Indians really admire. Ready to die for their country is just rhetorics. I will be happy if they just allow Salman Rushdie, Tasleema Nasrin into India and allow Vishwaroopam screening without starting a riot.
 
Right
I only care about indian who are more secular and consider all Indian equal no matter what their religion.You are right i did equat Pakistanis and extremist indian hindu bcoz both of them have same thing in common destruction of indian secular fabric.Is not going to Happen Sorry

1. First things first, its 'Indian' and not 'indian'.....looks like you spelled 'Pakistanis' right. :coffee: It doesn't look like you care about any Indian much, forget about 'secular' Indian. And as to destruction of Indian secular fabric. ..... you are right, its not going to happen because more than 80% of India is hindu.

Funny thing is you will pass for a 'secular' muslims in India, sitting in the US :rolleyes: One can very well imagine your less educated version (which is the majority) and how much respect they have for 'indians'.

2. There is a report somewhere brought out by 'secular' congress that show 90% of all riots have been started by muslims. ISI is responsible for that ? (... as per your justification for muslims supporting ISI)

3. The world will assume whatever it is convenient for them to assume. My posts or similar posts will only be an excuse :coffee:

4. As long as India is 80% hindus, it will always be secular. Its a bit rich assuming christian,sikh,jews support for religious intolerance which is your definition of 'secularism'.

5. MF Husain is dead and gone so I will refrain from speaking about him. However you can visit the site for the protesters point of view: MF Hussain

You should be asking why the 'secular' congress govt. dint provide him security.
 
80% Hindu in your dream we all know how many kids you guys have 1 or 2 may be.and now compare it to muslim couple and then you will have the shock of your life Holy Sh*t Hindus are in minority in 10 years.

Indian is indian where ever he may be US or China.

MFhusain Dead or alive we are here talking about How tolerate you guys are .

IF Congress government can protect itself that will be an achievement .

Please provide any link its says minority is responsible for riots or i will assume its your brain Fart

1. First things first, its 'Indian' and not 'indian'.....looks like you spelled 'Pakistanis' right. :coffee: It doesn't look like you care about any Indian much, forget about 'secular' Indian. And as to destruction of Indian secular fabric. ..... you are right, its not going to happen because more than 80% of India is hindu.

Funny thing is you will pass for a 'secular' muslims in India, sitting in the US :rolleyes: One can very well imagine your less educated version (which is the majority) and how much respect they have for 'indians'.

2. There is a report somewhere brought out by 'secular' congress that show 90% of all riots have been started by muslims. ISI is responsible for that ? (... as per your justification for muslims supporting ISI)

3. The world will assume whatever it is convenient for them to assume. My posts or similar posts will only be an excuse :coffee:

4. As long as India is 80% hindus, it will always be secular. Its a bit rich assuming christian,sikh,jews support for religious intolerance which is your definition of 'secularism'.

5. MF Husain is dead and gone so I will refrain from speaking about him. However you can visit the site for the protesters point of view: MF Hussain

You should be asking why the 'secular' congress govt. dint provide him security.
 
@Awesome So we can't discuss about Hindus in Pakistan but we can discuss about Muslims in India ? :azn:

Isn't it hypocritical ? Kindly tell all the posters to use Google. :D
 
Last edited by a moderator:
@Awesome So we can't discuss about Hindus in Pakistan but we can discuss about Muslims in India ? :azn:

Isn't it hypocritical ? Kindly tell all the posters to use Google. :D

:) isnt that awesome ;)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
:) isnt that awesome ;)
You will be surprised to know what reason he gave me when he closed the thread on Hindus in Pakistan.:lol:

I am all game for all topic to be discussed. I have just problem with these double standards. :enjoy:
 
@Awesome So we can't discuss about Hindus in Pakistan but we can discuss about Muslims in India ? :azn:

Isn't it hypocritical ? Kindly tell all the posters to use Google. :D

You're reaching, when you clearly know that when this thread was started, it was during the time when Shahrukh Khan raised this issue, and the news was or perhaps still is, the things SRK was saying.

It wasn't a "Oh let's talk about the poor miskeen Indian Muslims"... The issue of asking Indian Muslims: "Are you with Pakistanis" was famously raised by SRK, and became an international talking point everywhere.

Look we're not out to censor things against Pakistan, you have to be really arrogant or ignorant to believe otherwise. But I can't keep justifying basic moderation to you with multiple paragraphs. If you don't believe me, what's one to do. Life goes on.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
@Awesome SRK problem was not worth discussion. Neither was Indian Muslim Cop's beard.

Look at the thread of Wrong title thread about Hindu women against Hijab.

Its propaganda video.

My point is, I can't do anything. I am just highlighting the basic problem here.

I can take criticism but what's the point of Pakistani forum if Pakistan related problems are not discussed.

Many Pakistani Hindus are coming to India now. So it was worthy of discussion as there are recent news too.

Just be open about everything. I suggest that Kindly make a section on Indian Social issue.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Being Muslim in India has multiple benefit. Let me list few...

1. Free Water
2. Free electricity
3. Free Voter ID card (Easily made), Free Ration card (Easily made), Free govt document (Even Pakistani and Bangladeshi can get Passport).
4. Awesome Dubai/Gulf job
5. Continuous appeasement by govt.
6. Free Judiciary (NGOs )
7. Free to crib,
8. Freedom of birth (Free to give birth as many as one want, For non Muslim having more babies is shame)
9. Freedom to abuse Majority.
10. Freedom to do riots (Kashmir to Kerla)

and so on.....


last and not least cheap Beef... :enjoy:


1. Free Water (they have to pay bill so its not free)
2. Free electricity (they have to pay bill so its not free)
3. Free Voter ID card (Easily made), Free Ration card (Easily made), Free govt document (Even Pakistani and Bangladeshi can get Passport).dont tell me hindus pay fee's and muslims dont?
4. Awesome Dubai/Gulf job 90% of high pay jobs are of Indian Hindus compare to other Indians.
5. Continuous appeasement by govt.(by putting them behind bars?)
6. Free Judiciary (NGOs )(Prove it LOL)
7. Free to crib, (Prove it LOL)
8. Freedom of birth (Free to give birth as many as one want, For non Muslim having more babies is shame) SO this shame is imposed by Indian govt on Hindus?
9. Freedom to abuse Majority. (Same is done by the other side also)
10. Freedom to do riots (Kashmir to Kerla)(Same is done by the other side also)
last and not least cheap Beef... India is the largest beef exporter in the world.
 

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom