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Tipu would have enjoyed status of Shivaji if he was a Hindu: Karnad

Tipu destroyed temples and prosecuted Hindus. How many mosques were destroyed by shivaji and how many Muslims (Civilians) Killed by Shivaji. All good Muslim rulers have got due respect what they deserve. Example is Akbar. However, all invaders and terrorist can not be respected just because they are Muslim.
 
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Present has a habit of distorting history for its gain.History is all learning from experience which is not normally resorted too.

Shivaji in modern context was like srilankan ltte who was proped by a foreign power (Mughal) who later fought against Mughal after growing powerful. Maybe it was a fight for survival as the Mughals don't need him after Bijapur was annexed

Tipu was a Yuvraj (the hard work was done by Hyder Ali)like most indian king who fought British he fought to save his personal rule.

Killing looting was norm in those time let not indulge in d**k measuring contest.
 
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He was actually an Arab. They kept their roots truly pure for generations. Till the lineage was wiped out.

About 500 years old, Mysore city came into exist ence before the period of Hyder Ali and Tipu Sultan during the period of Raja Chakkadeva raj Wandeyar. From1673 till 1704 Wandeyar Kings ruled in Mysore for a long time and they had alliance with Aurangzib and the Emperor accepted them as his Governors. Aurangzeb gave Chakkadeva raj Wandeyar five symbols of Governments : Flag, Neshan-i-Mahi,Naqara, Khilatht, Takhtvataj, In addition to these,Aurangzeb gave one official Persian seal to Wandeyar and kings used this as Government monogram during the entire period of Wandeyar dynasty.

On the official seal, it was written in Persian “Ahmand Shahi with date 1162 Hijri.” But the migration of Muslims started during the period of Hyder Ali and Tipu Sultan, and in that period majority of Muslims we re living in Mysore. After the death of Tipu Sultan in 1799 A.D, Mysore Wandeyar rule Stanted.

After the death of Tipu Sultan some Muslims joined Wandeyar army and some migrated to Bangalore.
 
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All good Muslim rulers have got due respect what they deserve. Example is Akbar.
Akbar is respected because he was Muslim. Otherwise his crimes initially were terrible.

DESPITE him being a Muslim, he walked the path of reconciliation going AGAINST his faith and state religion. THAT is why he is considered GREAT. In any case Muslims don't consider him to be a role model. He was an apostate. The Ulema opposed him tooth and nail. :)
 
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Present has a habit of distorting history for its gain.History is all learning from experience which is not normally resorted too.

Shivaji in modern context was like srilankan ltte who was proped by a foreign power (Mughal) who later fought against Mughal after growing powerful. Maybe it was a fight for survival as the Mughals don't need him after Bijapur was annexed

Tipu was a Yuvraj (the hard work was done by Hyder Ali)like most indian king who fought British he fought to save his personal rule.

Killing looting was norm in those time let not indulge in d**k measuring contest.

Hindus in Kerala will always hate Tipu due to obvious reason
 
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Killing looting was norm in those time let not indulge in d**k measuring contest.
Pick ten non Muslim kings and ten Muslim sultans in India and list the number of atrocities during the same time period based on the following parameters.
i. Women raped
ii. Destruction of houses of worship
iii. Money looted

Then we can agree that looting was a norm. 10 may still be statistically nonviable. But we can start.

Hindus in Kerala will always Tipu due to obvious reason
I have seen almost all non Muslims in India to have nothing but hate for this man. Those who love him for being a 'nationalist' (like I did when I was a kid) was because they (like I) did not know.
 
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Pick ten non Muslim kings and ten Muslim sultans in India and list the number of atrocities during the same time period based on the following parameters.
i. Women raped
ii. Destruction of houses of worship
iii. Money looted

Then we can agree that looting was a norm. 10 may still be statistically nonviable. But we can start.


I have seen almost all non Muslims in India to have nothing but hate for this man. Those who love him for being a 'nationalist' (like I did when I was a kid) was because they (like I) did not know.

Infact all us Indians (or kids) only knows the distorted history presented by former GoI under left pressure
 
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Shivaji in modern context was like srilankan ltte who was proped by a foreign power (Mughal) who later fought against Mughal after growing powerful.
LOL. Shahaji's Marathas swore allegiance to the Deccans, his son Shivaji actually started his military career by campaigning against the Adilshahis. The Mughals had no play in propping up Marathas. :D

Tipu was a Yuvraj (the hard work was done by Hyder Ali)like most indian king who fought British he fought to save his personal rule.
Nope. Hyder Ali was an usurper, a treacherous general who deposed the royal family and after serving them and took power after a coup. They renamed the Kingdom of Mysore to the Sultanat of Mysore.
 
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Nope. Hyder Ali was an usurper, a treacherous general who deposed the royal family and after serving them and took power after a coup. They renamed the Kingdom of Mysore to the Sultanat of Mysore.

The Vijayanagara Empire disintegrated in 1565. The power vacuum created soon after was utilized by Raja Wadiyar, who ruled Mysore from 1578 to 1617. He expanded the borders of the Mysore kingdom and also shifted the capital from the city of Mysore in 1610 to Srirangapatna, a rare island formed by the river Cauvery , which provided natural protection against military attacks.

Subsequent famous rulers of the dynasty include Kanthirava Narasaraja I (ruled 1638-1659) who expanded the frontiers of the Mysore Kingdom to Trichy in Tamil Nadu. The dynasty reached its peak under Chikka Devaraja (ruled 1673-1704), who widely reformed the administration of the empire by dividing it into 18 departments (called Chavadis) and also introduced a coherent system of taxation.
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The commanders were referred to as Dalvayee. None of the Dalwayee was of royal blood and therefore the Dalvayee was not eligible to become a king. But after the death of Chikka the rulers were weak and listened to the Dalwayee's advice in all matters. The Dalwayee often avoided fighting an attacker but instead chose to pay substantial amounts to the enemy and send them away. In 1724 the Nizam of Golconda and his ally Ghorpade of Gutti came attacking Mysore and the Dalwayee made the then king Krishnaraja II pay more than one crore as tribute to avoid a war. In 1727 when Krishnaraja I was the king, the Maratha warrior Baji Rao I collected a tribute of 21 lakhs. In 1741when Krishnaraja II was the king the Nizam Nasir Jung levied a tribute of 50 lakhs on Mysore and in 1755 another Nizam Salabat Jung also levied a tribute of 56 lakhs.
Dalwayee Devaraja
The Dalwayee had to get the money to pay for these demands from the aggressors and therefore Dalwayee Devaraja and Nanjaraja attacked Tiruchirapally in 1752. This war lasted three years and drained the treasury instead of providing funds. Nanjaraja had employed one Hyder Ali as a captain among his troops. The troops were not paid their salary after the war with Tiruchirapally and therefore Hyder Ali could instigate a riot and get Nanjaraja removed as the Dalwayee by the king Krishnaraja II who appointed Hyder Ali as the Dalwayee. Hyder began to disobey the king soon after. This lead to a situation wherein the king invited the attacking Maratha army for help. Hyder Ali escaped and fled. He returned with a big army. Hyder negotiated peace with the Maratha commander so that the king failed to get help from the Maratha army. Hyder subdued the royal troops so that the king was forced to surrender the kingdom to Hyder Ali. However Hyder Ali did not harm the king but provided him a pension of 3 lakhs in the form of Jagir. Hyder Ali proclaimed himself as the administrator of Mysore kingdom in 1761 A.D. In the same year the Marathas were defeated in the Third Battle of Panipat near Delhi at the hands of the Afghans.

Zahiruddin Muhammad Babar came from the west and fought with Lodi army at Panipat in 1526.

In June 1565 A.D. ,the five sultans Nizamshah of Ahmadnagar, Adilshah of Bijapur, Baridshah of Bidar, Qutbshah of Golconda and Imadshah of Berar were still tasting their victory at Talikote, but the Portuguese on the west coast were a threat therefore the sultans of Bijapur and Ahmadnagar jointly fought the Portuguese but the latter were too strong to be driven away completely. So they signed treaties with the Portuguese following which there was peace at least until the Mughal army came to attack them. Mughals invaded all the sultanates and occupied their territories in 1675 A.D.

The period of Hyder Ali Khan(1722 - 1782) and his son Tipu Sultan(1750 - 1799)
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The English Company, with its headquarters in Madras and Bombay, had only some pockets of influence in Mangalore and Tellicherry. The Kerala coast was under the influence of the Dutch and the French who were established in Cochin and Mahe respectively. Thus Hyder Ali's and Tipu Sultan's invasion of Kerala was to fight and defeat the British.

During that period, there were a number of small kingdoms in Malabar. Among them, the important ones were those of Kottayam (Pazhassi) Raja, Kolathiri (Chirackal) Raja, Kadathanad Raja in North Malabar, and Zamorin in South Malabar. There was also a Muslim kingdom under Kolathiri Raja called Arackal. The seniormost male member of the Arackal Muslim family was known as Ali Raja while the seniormost female member was referred to as Arackal Bibi. The family originated from the Hindu royal family of Chirackal or Kolathiri. Though converted to Islam years back, the Arackal family followed their original matriarchal system as prevalent in Kerala. And though Ali Raja was a subordinate chieftain under Kolathiri Raja, he used to disobey the authority of Kolathiri quite often.

After reaching Cannanore, Hyder Ali Khan appointed Ali Raja as his Naval Chief (High Admiral) and the Raja's brother Sheik Ali as Chief of Port Authority (Intendant of Marine). After that, Ali Raja and his brother served Hyder Ali Khan on land and sea and aided all his military operations with a body of over 8,000 Mappilas (Muslim converts - name derived from Macca Pillai, Ma-Pillai)

Ettuveetil Pillais
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Pillai ...
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Mahadaji Shinde ( 3 December 1730 – 12 February 1794)

In 1784 Shah Alam sought Mahadji Scindia's help and he joined the Emperor with a large force and restored the Emperor to full soverignity after the latter was relegated to the position of a puppet by Afrasiab Khan the Minister at the court. Soon enough Afrasiab was murdered and Shah Alam conferred the title of Vakil-ul-mutlaq on Mahadji making him virtually the master of the Mughal dominions.

Mahadji Scindia restored the throne to Shah Alam and in return for his services the emperor conferred on him the dignities of Vakil-ul-mutlaq and Naib-vakil, also the order of Mahi Maratib was conferred on him. Mahadji Scindia died in 1794 in Poona.

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Hindustan Times. Indian swords
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LOL. Shahaji's Marathas swore allegiance to the Deccans, his son Shivaji actually started his military career by campaigning against the Adilshahis. The Mughals had no play in propping up Marathas. :D


Nope. Hyder Ali was an usurper, a treacherous general who deposed the royal family and after serving them and took power after a coup. They renamed the Kingdom of Mysore to the Sultanat of Mysore.
What I have read states that Shahji was captured by Adil Shah and he blackmailed Shivaji. Shivaji threatened invasion with the help of Mughal forces and Shahji was saved.
 
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Pick ten non Muslim kings and ten Muslim sultans in India and list the number of atrocities during the same time period based on the following parameters.
i. Women raped
ii. Destruction of houses of worship
iii. Money looted

Then we can agree that looting was a norm. 10 may still be statistically nonviable. But we can start.
Will give just couple of instances, though I can post many if asked for when "Dharmics" followed their "Dharma"...

The Marathas first invaded Bengal in 1742. Of their behaviour, the New Cambridge History of India tells us that “all authorities, both Indian and European are agreed”. A contemporary writer calls them “slayers of pregnant women and infants” and Sarkar has recorded their gang-rape of Hindu women, inexplicably stuffing the mouths of their victims with dust and breaking their arms and tying them behind their backs. The only Indian to try and protect his subjects against the Marathas incidentally, was the Mughal governor Ali Vardi Khan.

Source: http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatime...t-hindu-nationalist-thats-only-in-the-movies/

According James Grant Duff, a captain in the British India Regiment, Surat was attacked by Shivaji on 5 January 1664. This was a wealthy port city in Mughal empire for the sea trade of the era. The city was well populated mostly by Hindus and a few Muslims, specially the officials in the Mughal administration of the city. The attack was so sudden that the population had no chance flee. The plunder was continued for six days, two third of the city was burned down and there was smoke in the air for many days.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Surat

"Kings of the Paramara dynasty attacked and plundered Jain temples in Gujarat"

Source: http://www.frontline.in/static/html/fl1725/17250620.htm
 
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Will give just couple of instances, though I can post many if asked for when "Dharmics" followed their "Dharma"...

The Marathas first invaded Bengal in 1742. Of their behaviour, the New Cambridge History of India tells us that “all authorities, both Indian and European are agreed”. A contemporary writer calls them “slayers of pregnant women and infants” and Sarkar has recorded their gang-rape of Hindu women, inexplicably stuffing the mouths of their victims with dust and breaking their arms and tying them behind their backs. The only Indian to try and protect his subjects against the Marathas incidentally, was the Mughal governor Ali Vardi Khan.

East India company created trading posts in following Indian towns/villages (then): Surat (1612), Madras (1639), Bombay (1668) and Calcutta (1690). These grew into walled forts of Fort William in Calcutta (now called Kolkata), Fort St. George in Madras (now called Chennai) and Bombay Castle in Bombay (now called Mumbai).

The period of over a century of trade, with trading towns under their control (Bombay, Madras, Calcutta) before 1746 gave the British tremendous amount of money and great knowledge of Indian natives.

Prior to 1761 the Marathas were the most powerful military group (federation) in India with large part of India being under their control.

Alwardi Khan ascended to the throne of the Nawab of Bengal in 1740 after his army attacked and captured the capital of Bengal, Murshidabad. Alivardi’s attitude to the Europeans in Bengal was strict.

When Alivardi Khan died in 1756, Siraj-ud-daulah became the Nawab of Bengal. He ordered the English to stop the extension of their fortification. Robert Clive bribed Mir Jafar, the commander in chief of the nawab's army, and also promised him to make him Nawab of Bengal and attacked Calcutta. He defeated the Nawab at Plassey in 1757 and captured Calcutta.
 
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hy19tony

A master storyteller: Tony McClenaghan delivering a talk on Hyderabad Imperial Service Troops in the city on Tuesday.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities...ag-of-stories-on-his-back/article19716887.ece

Tony McClenaghan tells the largely forgotten story of contribution of Indian princes to the British war effort

Tony McClenaghan is a soldier and a storyteller. And he tells the largely forgotten story of contribution of Indian princes to the British war effort in both the big wars of the 20th century. In the city for a talk on Hyderabad Imperial Service Troops, Mr. McClenaghan narrated the evolution of soldiery in the region, how the Nizam backed the war effort and about the string band of His Highness Regular Force which performed on important social occasions.

“Hyderabad signed the Subsidiary Alliance treaty for the first time in November 1766 during the reign of Nizam Ali Khan when British troops were supplied to him and he paid money. In 1795, the Nizam lost territory after the battle of Khardla and he dismissed the two battalions officered by the British. But the British again signed a treaty, but with six battalions instead of two with 9,000 cavalry and 6,000 infantry. These troops played a role in the defeat of Tippu Sultan,” said Mr. McClenaghan as he fleshed out the details on how Hyderabad armed forces evolved along with the British fighting techniques. But this army, which had native soldiers officered by the British and paid for by the kings, became an instrument of coercion, he said.

“After Panjdeh incident when the Russian army began marching toward Herat in March 1885, Britain wanted an army ready to go on the ground to face Russia, but finding boots on the ground was difficult. Then, the Nizam of Hyderabad stepped in and said I got a large chest of money I can help you with. The British didn’t want the Nizam’s money, but suggested that he maintain a portion of army,” said Mr. McClenaghan, who has served in the British Army between 1964-76.

Mr. McClenaghan’s love affair with the Indian army began when he collected a medal of a Sowar of RIS Lancers.

“IS was easy Imperial Service. But it took me 10 years to identify that RS was not the name of a State but a family name Rajinder of Patiala, but by then I was hooked to the subject,” he says.

After the breakout of the First World War, the Indian rulers quickly lined up to support the war effort. In the first world war, the Nizam was generous with the funding, but not with the soldiers. He bore the full cost of 20th Deccan Force for which he held the rank of colonel of the regiment. “By the end of it, about 22,000 soldiers of all ranks were committed to the war effort and 18,000 served overseas. In the First World War, 840 Indian soldiers died, I have identified further 90,” he says.

“There were two incidents which marred the war effort. On December 14, 1914, Commanding Officer Major Muhammad Ali Musa was shot dead by Squadron Quartermaster Daffadar Darba Singh of his regiment. A few weeks later in 1915, 2nd Lieutenant Rafatullah Shah was shot dead by Risaldar Imitiaz Muhammad,” says Mr. McClenaghan, who is writing a book on the contribution of Indian Princely State to the First World War.

“I think it is the Murphy’s Law that during the closing stages of the war in Egypt, the Hyderabad forces were on guard duty for 20,000 Turkish Prisoners of War while other Indian soldiers from Jodhpur and Mysuru earned battle honours by running over Haifa and Aleppo. But the bravery of Hyderabad soliders is commemorated in the Teen Murti statue in Delhi,” said Mr. McClenaghan.
 
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The Jumboo Savari

Astride grandpa’s shoulders, I watched the grand procession wend its way
Mysore — the word may conjure up grand visions of the nine-day Dasara festival, culminating in the world famous Jamboo savari or elephant procession. But as a 1948-born person, what I witnessed was a very different Mysore. That Mysore was a peaceful town — not actually a city. It was known for its salubrious climate and leisurely pace of life. People were highly cultured, their easy going disposition bordering on laziness.

The broad streets of the well laid-out city was lined on either side by magnificent gulmohar, ficus and rain trees. Along with verdant parks and palaces, Mysore was a pensioner’s paradise. Bicycle and tongas were the preferred modes of transport. Vintage cars could be sighted occasionally. Children loved to sit in the front of the tonga, just to watch the horses at close quarters. I had also seen buses powered by coal and steam.

Mysore has always been famous for several things — jasmine, betel leaves, sandalwood, silk, Mysore Pak and Nanjangudu rasabale (special variety of banana). But then it is Dasara, which attracts tourists from across the country and abroad.
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Dasara showcases Mysore as the cultural icon, the town being home to eminent litterateurs and musicians. The Maharajas of Mysore were not only great patrons of music and fine arts but very good composers and musicians too. Under their patronage, both Carnatic and Hindustani artistes flourished and were made court musicians or asthana vidwans. Cultural renaissance peaked during the reign of four kings — Mummadi Krishnaraja Wodeyar (1794-1869), Chamaraja Wodeyar (1863-1894), Nalvadi Krishnaraja wodeyar (1884-1940, also hailed as Rajarishi) and Jayachamaraja Wodeyar (1919-1974), who was the 25th and the last ruler of the Mysore Wodeyar dynasty. This period is rightly called the Suvarna yuga or golden age in the musical and cultural history of Mysore.

I had the fortune of seeing the last ruler, Sri Jayachamaraja Wodeyar, during the Dasara procession or jamboo savari, being seated on a caparisoned elephant. I also talked to him when my father performed for his daughter Gayathri Devi’s marriage reception at the Mysore palace during the early 1970s.

Although my father, the late R.K. Srikantan was not an asthana vidwan of the Mysore palace, he was closely associated with it. He was invited to perform at the marriage reception of Gayathri Devi, the daughter of the late Maharaja Jayachamaraja Wodeyar. On some days, he would give music lessons to his student coming home. Thus I was constantly exposed to music which made me imbibe many aspects of Carnatic music at a tender age of three. The house on the Parakal Mutt Road, where we shifted, was a virtual hub with father inviting stalwarts such as Musiri Subramanya Iyer, Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer, Ariyakudi Ramanuja Iyengar. They came to Mysore to perform at the hallowed precincts of Bidaram Krishnappa Ramamandira, venue of Ramanavami festival. I would accompany my father to these concerts.

I was also fortunate to have my grandparents (maternal) residing in Mysore on Seeneerkatte Road in Nanjumalige extension. I would move there during Dasara to be pampered and to soak in the mood. The palace would dazzle, casting a spell on the onlooker, something it continues to do even today. Chamundeswari — the Goddess, who annihilated Mahishasura — being the deity of the Mysore royal family, Vijayadasami, which symbolises the triumph of evil over good, has special significance in this part of the country.

It was Raja Wodeyar I (1578-1617), first ruler of independent Mysore kingdom in 1610, who started the nine-day Dasara festivities with all pomp. The festivities, which begin at the Ambavilas Palace invoke the regal tradition inherited from the Vijayanagar kings. On the tenth day, the much-awaited procession (jamboo savari) begins with a 21-gun salute.


Pandava link

The Maharaja would mount the royal elephant from a specially erected high platform in the palace and after being seated in the 750-kg golden howdah placed on the caparisoned elephant would go to Bannimantap to worship the sacred Banni tree. It is said that it is on this tree that the Pandavas hung their weapons during the 12-month exile. The procession was followed by military troops, the palace band, nagaswaram, the royal insignia of Gandaberunda, the State elephant, State horse and State cow. The members of the royal entourage were dressed in white pants, with a long black coat and sported the Mysore turban or peta. A golden-bordered sash would be placed across the coat.

After finishing worship, the Maharaja would return to the palace. My grand father, a well-built person sporting a big moustache, would carry me on his shoulders so that I could have a good view of the procession. A person would hover closely behind the elephant in order to collect the dung — a sight, which was a huge amusement for the children.

Apart from the palace celebration, an attraction was the arrangement of dolls at my grandparents’ home. The stay also meant that I could indulge in the delights my grandma’s kitchen offered. A culinary expert, she swore by the traditional method of cooking in stoneware using charcoal or wood. The spread was breathtaking — Mysore saaru (rasam), huli or sambar, varieties of palyas or curries made out of vegetables, different types of murukku, sweets like payasa and Kesari bath liberally sprinkled with pure saffron and cashew, pongal, seekarane or mango milk shake (during summer) and so on. The breakfast menu included varieties of uppittu or uppuma, fenugreek dosa with pure ghee or butter, avalakki or poha and masala idlis. Dasara days used to be hectic for her in the kitchen and she would never grumble. My mother, another great cook, inherited the skill from grandma.

I smell the fragrance of Mysore Mallige and sandalwood incense even as my mind drifts to the past. The mind knows that changes are inevitable but the heart craves for that golden era, memories of which are forever.
 
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http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/karnataka/tipu-jayanti-anantkumar-hegde/article19892336.ece


He does not want his name included in the programme invitations

Union Minister of State for Skill Development and Entrepreneurship Anantkumar Hegde has asked the Chief Secretary to State government to direct all concerned with the celebration of Tipu Jayanti not to include his name in the programme invitations.

Mr. Hegde, as the MP for Uttara Kannada, had last year also asked the Deputy Commissioner of Uttara Kannada not to include his name in the programme invitations. The BJP in Karnataka has been opposing State-sponsored Tipu Jayanti celebrations. Violence had erupted around it in Kodagu in 2015, when the celebrations were first introduced as a State event.

In a letter to the Chief Secretary, Mr. Hegde’s personal secretary said it was being written on the direction of the Minister. “The instructions may be brought to the notice of all departments in the State celebrating Tipu Jayanti,” the letter said. In 2016 too, Mr. Hegde had said he condemned State government celebrating Tipu Jayanti “despite stiff opposition” from a section of the people. Tipu, he claimed, was “against Kannada language and was anti-Hindu”.

“In 2016 November, Mr. Hegde was among those arrested in Uttara Kannada district for opposing the celebrations. He had threatened to disrupt the celebrations in the district.”

It may be noted here that Mr. Hegde, a five-time MP, has found himself in the middle of a controversy several times. While his derogatory remarks about Islam have drawn criticism, he was also accused of assaulting a doctor in Uttara Kannada earlier.

Many of his tweets have also attracted controversy because of their hardline Hindutva views. More recently, after taking over as the Minister, Mr. Hegde termed mediapersons a “confused lot” who “do not know how to speak, what to ask, what to write”. He said they do not even know how to faithfully write what is said. His remarks soon went viral, evoking severe criticism on social media.
 
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