Tillerson out, Pompeo in, this change is about Iran

[SubWater]

What Iran can do to deter the attack
Iran tried to create and improve different ways to defend itself against upcoming Tomahawk cruise missiles wave.
1-first thousands small motorized units with two or three personals in deserts and mountains by missagh manpads

2-second tens cheap mohajer drones equipped with manpads to create small and cheap and high number air force

3-tor-m1 and other Iranian made short and low airdefences like Ya Zahra and Herze 9 and so on

4-air defense guns which controls by mans or automatically by opticals or radars

and at end high Jamming and electrical warfare like what happened to RQ-170

Iran can't shoot down 2000 cruise missiles, lets not be exaggerating here. and 4000 Is more than enough to destroy most of Iran's above ground targets.

 

[raptor22]

If there is gonna be any confrontation it would be in Syria not directly against Iran. the main goal of Syria war was to cut Iran connection with Iraq,Syria and Hezboallah if it had happened war would have come till that time no war.

شما داری خود فریبی می کنی ، زمانی که اکثریت مطلق مسئولین ( همون 250 -300 نفری که قدرت رو بین خودشون می گردونند ) فرزندان و دارایی هاشون توی کشورهای غربی هست ، چیزی به نام جنگ وجود نخواهد داشت ...
اگه هم جنگی باشه ، اونقدر طول می کشه تا جواهرات ، طلاهای کشور و ... رو از کشور خارج کنند و بروند ...

Then why we discuss here?
In every country you can find such a persons even during Iran-Iraq war, but the whole government stood as they've stood in Iraq and Syria ...

as far as I know , USA used 3000 Tomhawk against Iraq .... and they just fired 59 tomhawk to Syria for just show their power ...

USA has an old stock of Tomhawk and other missiles and bombs which are going to expire any way , so they will use them in first week of war in high numbers against their enemy ....

USA doesn't need to pay extra money for 4000 Tomhawk , because they already produced those missiles and those old missiles are going to expire any way , so they will use it ....

and don't except USA just publicly mention how much missiles they have ...

As far as I know it wasn't more than 725 Tomahawks ...

 

[OldTwilight]

As far as I know it wasn't more than 725 Tomahawks ...

Too much info in my mind ... 3000 was about number of Iranian Targets that USA Army consider it as valuable ( power planet , government buildings , Bridge , Air port , Military base , Petrochemical factories and .... ) to crush Iran's Infrastructure .... 3000 , 4000 Tomhawk is enough to take us back to 30 years ago ... only solution is power to retaliate in same manner and target USA main land .... which we can't do with conventional weapons ...

Then why we discuss here?
In every country you can find such a persons even during Iran-Iraq war, but the whole government stood as they've
stood in Iraq and Syria ...

because there is no place for me to talk ...
Persians forum either ban me or censor my posts ....

and if our officials really care about Iran , they wouldn't turn our economy and our army to this miserable state .... They just want Iran to rule it and they want to rule to access to our wealth and steal it ...


The day that I read news about filling our reactor with cement , was the day I lost hope on IR and saw their true face .... for what !? for JCPOA that is already dead ...

 

[OldTwilight]

Bolton and Trump should be ultra idiots to attack Iran or exit from Nuclear deal , they just need to continue their current policy ...

thanks to Islamic Republic ... Iran going to fall apart at this rate in next 2-3 years ...

The outcome of current situation is clear , so any sane man just sit and watch the situation and enjoy the show ...

 

[zartosht]

because there is no place for me to talk ...
Persians forum either ban me or censor my posts ....

and if our officials really care about Iran , they wouldn't turn our economy and our army to this miserable state .... They just want Iran to rule it and they want to rule to access to our wealth and steal it ...


The day that I read news about filling our reactor with cement , was the day I lost hope on IR and saw their true face .... for what !? for JCPOA that is already dead ...

perhaps the schtick of going into every single thread, and spamming and whining about political corruption that has nothing to do with the topic gets irritating? have you given this a thought my friend?

I know you don't like corruption, and the state of your personal economic situation. But there are better ways of expressing it then going to any random place and repeating it over and over and over again.

Iran is the only country on earth with corruption. only country on earth with corrupt officials.

no other country on earth has corruption. at no time before the Islamic revolution iran had corrupton.. it was a golestan heaven before Khamenei and his band of looting thugs took over!!!!!! and only if we topple our independent government, hand back our coutry to the vultures to become their plaything like the preceding few hundred years. all will be well..

corruption will be gone, we will all be swimming in cash, and singing kumbaya in the street!!!

we get it my friend. it doesn't need repeating everywhere.

 

[LeGenD]

There's a lot of hypothesis on going here, but its missing what Russia/ China would do to back both Iran or for that matter the DPRK.........the answer is obvious!

There's no way in hell the US or its NATO puppets have the audacity or the resources to take on Iran. A commitment that would require a million troops and practically their entire arsenals as a minimum to just face Iran. No operation against Iran guarantees success, unless it includes the physical invasion, toppling of the Iranian government and long term occupation of Iran.

And that is just not going to happen, which means nothing else will either.

Iraqi thought the same and look at them now. USA is a true superpower whereas Iran is a regional player - there is no parity in the power projection capabilities of the two.

A single Ohio-class submarine is more than enough to finish off Iran with its strategic bombing suite.

When it comes to the US, even Pakistan exercise caution.

Your country needs an "adaptive foreign policy."

 

[SubWater]

Iraqi thought the same and look at them now. USA is a true superpower whereas Iran is a regional player - there is no parity in the power projection capabilities of the two.

A single Ohio-class submarine is more than enough to finish off Iran with its strategic bombing suite.

When it comes to the US, even Pakistan exercise caution.

Your country needs an "adaptive foreign policy."

people like you always loss to their cowardness
Iraq and Libya disarmed themselves voluntarily before war. Read history please.
Americans have good policy and that is never attack to guys who can retaliate.

 

[LeGenD]

people like you always loss to their cowardness
Iraq and Libya disarmed themselves voluntarily before war. Read history please.
Americans have good policy and that is never attack to guys who can retaliate.

Are you kidding me?

Iraq fielded the most sophisticated network of AA/AD systems in the Middle East by 1991. According to European sources, Baghdad alone was more heavily defended than every major city in Europe at the time.

Iraq AA/AD capabilities were state-of-the-art to large extent in 1991. Have a look:-

SA-2 battalions

SA-3 Gecko

SA-6 Gainful

SA-9 Gaskin

SA-8 Gecko

SA-13 Gopher

AMX-30 Roland

Complete picture:-

"By the summer of 1990, Iraq possessed 16,000 radar-guided and heatseeking surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), including the Soviet SA-2, SA-3, SA-6, SA-7, SA-8, SA-9, SA-13, SA-14, and SA-16, and the Franco-German Roland. Additional air defense was provided by Air Force interceptors and organic Army assets, including the SA-7/14, SA-8, SA-9/13, SA-16 missile systems, and the ZSU-23/4 self-propelled AAA system. In addition, the Iraqi air defense had more than 7,500 AAA pieces protecting all targets of value, some deployed on the roofs of numerous buildings in Baghdad housing government facilities. These weapons -- 57-mm and 37-mm AAA pieces, ZSU-23/4 and ZSU-57/2 self-propelled AAA systems, and hundreds of 14.5-mm and 23-mm light antiaircraft weapons -- formed the backbone of the integrated air defense network. In major high value target areas (such as Baghdad, airfields, chemical agent production complexes, and nuclear facilities) the combined arms air defense could prove lethal to aircraft operating below 10,000 feet." - Global Security

---

Intercepting Tomahawk class cruise missiles is not as easy as it may sound in theory. Remember the Shayrat incident in Syria in 2017? Even Russians fled from that airbase when they learned about the impending attack.

---

I am not saying that you do not bolster your defenses; I am pointing out the obvious. If you find yourself on the receiving end of the US, your armed forces and country would be in ruins after the engagement.

Best course of action is to adopt an "adaptive foreign policy."

 

[SubWater]

Are you kidding me?

Iraq fielded the most sophisticated network of AA/AD systems in the Middle East by 1991. According to European sources, Baghdad alone was more heavily defended than every major city in Europe at the time.

Iraq AA/AD capabilities were state-of-the-art to large extent in 1991. Have a look:-

SA-2 battalions

SA-3 Gecko

SA-6 Gainful

SA-9 Gaskin

SA-8 Gecko

SA-13 Gopher

AMX-30 Roland

Complete picture:-

"By the summer of 1990, Iraq possessed 16,000 radar-guided and heatseeking surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), including the Soviet SA-2, SA-3, SA-6, SA-7, SA-8, SA-9, SA-13, SA-14, and SA-16, and the Franco-German Roland. Additional air defense was provided by Air Force interceptors and organic Army assets, including the SA-7/14, SA-8, SA-9/13, SA-16 missile systems, and the ZSU-23/4 self-propelled AAA system. In addition, the Iraqi air defense had more than 7,500 AAA pieces protecting all targets of value, some deployed on the roofs of numerous buildings in Baghdad housing government facilities. These weapons -- 57-mm and 37-mm AAA pieces, ZSU-23/4 and ZSU-57/2 self-propelled AAA systems, and hundreds of 14.5-mm and 23-mm light antiaircraft weapons -- formed the backbone of the integrated air defense network. In major high value target areas (such as Baghdad, airfields, chemical agent production complexes, and nuclear facilities) the combined arms air defense could prove lethal to aircraft operating below 10,000 feet." - Global Security

---

Intercepting Tomahawk class cruise missiles is not as easy as it may sound. Remember the Shayrat incident in Syria? Even Russians fled that airbase when they learned about the impending attack.

---

I am not saying that you do not bolster your defenses, I am pointing out the obvious. When your opponent is the US, you cannot do much.

NO, I am not.
Iraqis wait for weeks in Kuwait and saw how American preparing in KSA to attack them.
if I was instead of Saddam I would attack KSA as well at first week of war.
Americans were completely aware of Iraqis air defense. and they know about every detail of Iraqis air defense also Iraqis do not except Americans to attack them in 1991 b/c they reached the deal with them before Kuwait attack. Iraqis fall in American trap in 1991.

 

[LeGenD]

NO, I am not.
Iraqis wait for weeks in Kuwait and saw how American preparing in KSA to attack them.
if I was instead of Saddam I would attack KSA as well at first week of war.

Iraq did take its chances in similar respect in the early phase of the Persian Gulf War (1991).

FYI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khafji

OR

You implied a preemptive attack during the build-up phase in Saudi Arabia about a few months earlier?

Americans were completely aware of Iraqis air defense. and they know about every detail of Iraqis air defense also Iraqis do not except Americans to attack them in 1991 b/c they reached the deal with them before Kuwait attack. Iraqis fall in American trap in 1991.

American surveillance capabilities are top-notch. They have extensive knowledge of defenses of virtually any country which is on their radar.

They spoofed Pakistani defenses during the course of Operation Neptune Spear (i.e. raiding the suspect compound in Abbottabad) in 2011, preventing an effective counter-response from Pakistani armed forces during the deed. Abbottabad is located in a mountainous region deep inside Pakistan; should you ever visit this city, you will find yourself in disbelief that how come American forces were able to raid a compound in this city (and return to Afghanistan) in a span of < 2 hours in sheer darkness.

Underestimate the Americans at your peril, my friend. I hope no harm comes to your country but I see no point in chest-thumping.

I am not sure which trap you have in mind. Deception is part of the game and USA is a master of this art. Smart countries (and individuals) do not take their bait however.

Consider the case of Kim Jong Unn - he was about to take their bait by striking at Guam in 2017 but he listened to his advisers and shelved this plan. At present, he is showing absolute willingness for negotiations with the Trump administration to sort out issues between them. Smart guy, IMO.

 

[Tokhme khar]

You are a funny guy. You mentioned all this about Iraqi air defenses, in case you were wondering, those Iraqi defenses managed to shoot down 38 coalition warplanes too.

Keep in mind, Iran is not Iraq!

Iranian backed militias and allied forces have repeatedly fought and defeated US backed, advised and assisted forces left and right. From Afghanistan to Lebanon. Seems like you are clueless about Iran's power. Let me straighten it out for you..........you are a regional player. lol

Iraqi thought the same and look at them now. USA is a true superpower whereas Iran is a regional player - there is no parity in the power projection capabilities of the two.

A single Ohio-class submarine is more than enough to finish off Iran with its strategic bombing suite.

When it comes to the US, even Pakistan exercise caution.

Your country needs an "adaptive foreign policy."

 

[LeGenD]

You are a funny guy. You mentioned all this about Iraqi air defenses, in case you were wondering, those Iraqi defenses managed to shoot down 38 coalition warplanes too.

Of-course, casualties occur in a war. Never implied otherwise.

Keep in mind, Iran is not Iraq!

Right! What did YOU (as in Iran) achieve in your war with Iraq? Nothing [1].

When US went after Iraq, outcome is in front of you. Saddam-led regime is history and we see a different Iraq today.

Iranian backed militias and allied forces have repeatedly fought and defeated US backed, advised and assisted forces left and right. From Afghanistan to Lebanon. Seems like you are clueless about Iran's power. Let me straighten it out for you..........you are a regional player. lol

1. Iran-backed HAMAS managed to put up a fight against Israel in a war in 2006 (credit where due) but Lebanon suffered to large extent in the process and Lebanese leader was in tears in an international forum, requesting UN to pressure Israel into ceasefire. Israel has taken notes however [2].

2. Iran-backed MAHDI ARMY emerged in 2004 to oust Coalition Forces from Iraq but their efforts were in vain (2004 - 2008); The militia's leader, a Shia cleric Muqtada Al-Sadr had to flee to Iran for his safety in 2008 and US-backed Iraqi security forces decisively defeated MAHDI ARMY in an operation in the same year [3]. In-fact, Coalition Forces neutralized all forms of rebellion across Iraq by 2008. US withdrew its forces from Iraq in 2011 when much of the country was stable and reconstruction efforts were underway.

3. ISIS movement emerged in 2013 and swept through much of Iraq and Syria by 2014. Iran-backed militias never stood a chance against a movement of this size, capability and scope on their own. US had to commence a major offensive against this militia in 2014 (i.e. Operation Inherent Resolve) and it took 3 straight years of precision strikes and numerous forces on the ground to bring an end to this chapter of conflict across the Middle East [as in 2017].

4. YOU don't get to boast about Taliban's accomplishments in Afghanistan because they draw ample support from its population base to sustain themselves. Nonetheless, Taliban-based sources have openly expressed that they are willing to negotiate a settlement with the Americans for an end-game in Afghanistan [4]. Negotiations are underway actually as we speak.

---

I am a keen observer and well-learned, my friend. You need to do your homework on the other hand. You are mistaking US for Israel - there is no comparison.

Until now, both Iraq and North Korea managed to divert attention of the US away from Iran but this won't be the case anymore. Iraq is no longer a threat and North Korea is willing to negotiate its way out of hostilities with the US to its benefit.

Clouds of distraction are dispersing slowly but surely. Drop your posturing and sharpen your foreign policy tools instead. There is a saying in Urdu - akalmand ke liye ishara hi kafi hai*.

*A gesture is sufficient for a smart individual to grasp the situation.

---

[1] https://www.history.com/topics/iran-iraq-war

[2] https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9975.html

[3] http://web.stanford.edu/group/mappingmilitants/cgi-bin/groups/view/57

[4] https://alemarah-english.com/?p=25640

 

[Tokhme khar]

No you are not learned, but almost illiterate, when it comes to Iran.

I won't and don't have the time to engage or educate you, but in case you haven't noticed, Iran controls Iraq today, not the US........Same goes for Lebanon and Syria too. Yemen is on a similar trajectory, while Qatar is now an Iranian ally.

2000 US special forces in NE Syria are guests of Iran, for the time being. Iran will decide when it's time for them to go. You see, we don't fcuk around, like the US does. We get the job done.

Of-course, casualties occur in a war. Never implied otherwise.


Right! What did YOU (as in Iran) achieve in your war with Iraq? Nothing [1].

When US went after Iraq, outcome is in front of you. Saddam-led regime is history and we see a different Iraq today.


1. Iran-backed HAMAS managed to put up a fight against Israel in a war in 2006 (credit where due) but Lebanon suffered to large extent in the process and Lebanese leader was in tears in an international forum, requesting UN to pressure Israel into ceasefire. Israel has taken notes however [2].

2. Iran-backed MAHDI ARMY emerged in 2004 to oust Coalition Forces from Iraq but their efforts were in vain (2004 - 2008); The militia's leader, a Shia cleric Muqtada Al-Sadr had to flee to Iran for his safety in 2008 and US-backed Iraqi security forces decisively defeated MAHDI ARMY in an operation in the same year [3]. In-fact, Coalition Forces neutralized all forms of rebellion across Iraq by 2008. US withdrew its forces from Iraq in 2011 when much of the country was stable and reconstruction efforts were underway.

3. ISIS movement emerged in 2013 and swept through much of Iraq and Syria by 2014. Iran-backed militias never stood a chance against a movement of this size, capability and scope on their own. US had to commence a major offensive against this militia in 2014 (i.e. Operation Inherent Resolve) and it took 3 straight years of precision strikes and numerous forces on the ground to bring an end to this chapter of conflict across the Middle East [as in 2017].

4. YOU don't get to boast about Taliban's accomplishments in Afghanistan because they draw ample support from its population base to sustain themselves. Nonetheless, Taliban-based sources have openly expressed that they are willing to negotiate a settlement with the Americans for an end-game in Afghanistan [4]. Negotiations are underway actually as we speak.

---

I am a keen observer and well-learned, my friend. You need to do your homework on the other hand. You are mistaking US for Israel - there is no comparison.

Until now, both Iraq and North Korea managed to divert attention of the US away from Iran but this won't be the case anymore. Iraq is no longer a threat and North Korea is willing to negotiate its way out of hostilities with the US to its benefit.

Clouds of distraction are dispersing slowly but surely. Drop your posturing and sharpen your foreign policy tools instead. There is a saying in Urdu - akalmand ke liye ishara hi kafi hai*.

*A gesture is sufficient for a smart individual to grasp the situation.

---

[1] https://www.history.com/topics/iran-iraq-war

[2] https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9975.html

[3] http://web.stanford.edu/group/mappingmilitants/cgi-bin/groups/view/57

[4] https://alemarah-english.com/?p=25640

 

[SubWater]

They spoofed Pakistani defenses during the course of Operation Neptune Spear (i.e. raiding the suspect compound in Abbottabad) in 2011, preventing an effective counter-response from Pakistani armed forces during the deed. Abbottabad is located in a mountainous region deep inside Pakistan; should you ever visit this city, you will find yourself in disbelief that how come American forces were able to raid a compound in this city (and return to Afghanistan) in a span of < 2 hours in sheer darkness.

that happen b/c of traitors in your army. Americans know location of your radars and their types.
your country is supply line for Americans in Afghanistan and day and night their army is flying above your country.

I am not sure which trap you have in mind. Deception is part of the game and USA is a master of this art. Smart countries (and individuals) do not take their bait however.

Yes, for that reason I said Saddam made mistake. American showed green light to Saddam to attack Kuwait and Saddam made mistake for trusting new fox. He had ability and enough support in Arab world to occupy all of the Arabian peninsula in one week but he decide to trust Americans and stop behind Saudi borders and watch how American gathering forces in Saudi deserts.

Consider the case of Kim Jong Unn - he was about to take their bait by striking at Guam in 2017 but he listened to his advisers and shelved this plan. At present, he is showing absolute willingness for negotiations with the Trump administration to sort out issues between them. Smart guy, IMO.

Absolutely, kim is smarter than Trump and he can put good conditions like American forces leave south korea and he has upper hand in the compare of Iran negations b/c he had nuclear weapon and long range missiles.

 

[zartosht]

got to love how some morons still cite the iran-iraq war as some sort of relevant example...

a post-revolution iran in absolute chaos with barely a functioning government. with an American supplied and dependent army (which got completely cut off) that got decimated in the revolution with upwards of 65% defection~. with the top leadership completely decapitated, and in complete disarray with non-existent morale.

getting attacked in a pre-planned surprise attack by a heavily armed and supported Iraq. Who had the entire arab, western and even eastern worlds on their side. (just look at how dramatically Russia alone changed the outcome of the Syrian war, and compare Iraq/Iranian support). if nothing else, Iraq would have collapsed financially in the first couple years if it wasn't for other arabs giving saddam 10s of billions of dollars.

and despite this, Iran was actually winning that war, and by americans own admission if it wasn't for unlimited use of chemical weapons by saddam, and massive American aid (including crucial satellite info) Iraq would have faced complete defeat in that war.

They compare iran of then to todays iran. and compare the heavily sanctioned/isolated Iraq getting gang banged by 50~ countries to the Iraq that fought iran.

Despite this, the severity of the Iraqi loss can be blamed personally on saddam. who micro-managed his army who were terrified to make decisions without his approval. And insisted on not fighting in urban terrain where American advantages would be minimised. and instead coming out in masses in the open field to get slaughtered by the button pushing army.

They compare that to todays iran. who has meticulously studied American war tactics. Has come up with a comprehensive "mosaic" assymetric doctrine to counter it. Has a population 2.5 Iraq, 3 times bigger then Iraq with a lot of defensible mountaineous terrain. and a large heavily patriotic population that would fight street to street, inch by inch....

one can only hope these "well read" morons are not American war strategists....