Thunder is Lightning

[Raider 21]

Not getting this one


Actually 3-5 pilots were posted on F16 after EFCC not 1 and they were all from same course..two of them are in No. 5 sqn Falcons do not know about the rest.
Another Flt Lt. was transferred to F16 when No. 14 was re-equipped.

My bad....was typing fast on the phone. What I meant in a similar situation, the current No.14 Sqn OC got posted to F-16s after having flown T-38 IFFs (Introduction to Fighter Fundamentals) with USAF AETC.

 

[SQ8]

Its surprising bcuz JFT has no dual version in service yet..only one Flt Lt was operational on JFT till now and that too bcz he took training at USAF..the one who got promoted now is nephew of current PM..though he denies he used any PARCHI and says he was selected on his talent.


U can spot an aircraft on ur RWR and FCR not forgetting the AWACs and ground control..smoke doesnt matter in ACMs.

Smoke matters a lot in visuals, RWR or FCR arent magical systems that work in a spherical fashion..

A small size makes it difficult to get mark 1 eyeball on it but if someone sees a telltale black smoke trail they know where to look.

 

[Talon]

Smoke matters a lot in visuals, RWR or FCR arent magical systems that work in a spherical fashion..

A small size makes it difficult to get mark 1 eyeball on it but if someone sees a telltale black smoke trail they know where to look.

O come on..no ordinary aircraft can deceive radars and in a dogfight where people have activated their radars how wouldnt u show up on their screens,not forgetting BRAA from ground and other friendlies..its not a constant black contrail its just a little puff of smoke and the aircraft emitting it wont be flying straight,he's in a dogfight man...u have got no time to fly straight and look for ur enemy to emit black smoke so u can target him...u do that and u will be shot in no time.

 

[Khafee]

O come on..no ordinary aircraft can deceive radars and in a dogfight where people have activated their radars how wouldnt u show up on their screens,not forgetting BRAA from ground and other friendlies..its not a constant black contrail its just a little puff of smoke and the aircraft emitting it wont be flying straight,he's in a dogfight man...u have got no time to fly straight and look for ur enemy to emit black smoke so u can target him...u do that and u will be shot in no time.

At the cost of upsetting some members, I say this:

In WVR, you will focus on your opponents smoke trail, IF you are in the mood to get your behind shot off. IT is the least productive / most dangerous, thing a pilot can do.

 

[Windjammer]

Gentlemen, please don't make it sound like the B-52 smoke trails....the JF-17 may omit smoke but only when conducting certain maneuvers and then again it's a brief omission....during WVR dogfights, the chase pilot is more focused on the bogey than his smoke trail.... besides at jet speed while turning twisting through clouds at several miles distant and while keeping own tail clear, a brief smoke trail will not be much of an advantage or disadvantage.

 

[volatile]

Smoke is originated due to Unburning of fuel for fuel to combust three variables are important

Air (Oxygen)
Fuel Source (Jet Fuel)
Ignition source (igniters)

Generally speaking, there are five major types of emissions from gas turbine engines: smoke, carbon dioxide (CO2), carbon monoxide (CO), unburned hydrocarbons (UHC), and nitrogen oxides (NOx).

Smoke is primarily mitigated by more evenly mixing the fuel with air. As discussed in the fuel injector section above, modern fuel injectors (such as airblast fuel injectors) evenly atomize the fuel and eliminate local pockets of high fuel concentration. Most modern engines use these types of fuel injectors and are essentially smokeless.

The most probable reasons for smoke is above 2 (Air intake/Fuel Source) Now there could be another reason i.e lubrication fuel if some how enters the combustion chambers since RD93 is derivative of RD33 engine so we must assume the technology is based on old manufacturing and materials. Since the RD93 has digital and computerised units for diagnosing as well as optimum combustion .

We have seen with the advent of DSI the smoke issue has really decreased from the earlier prototypes .

Now the
The interesting point for smoke at certain performance and RPMs indicates that fuel mixing is not efficient since the combustor is having annular combustor

Annular combustor for a gas turbine engine, viewed axis on looking through the exhaust. The small orange circles are the fuel injection nozzles.

So i guess if the fuel injection nozzles or air flow has to be adjusted automatically with DSI intake the flow of air especially at lower speed is less and in order to compensate the engine drags more fuel ,May be a solid reason of not being fuel efficient engine as well *** less engine life .

As test if possible air intake needs to be control but DSI are fixed so nothing much can happen here

Look at smoke at slower speeds and how engine is adjusting to compensate for combustion

 

[niaz]

Smoke in any the engine exhaust is mostly carbon particles (soot), tar, oils and ash. Fundamental reason for smoke in the jet engine is incomplete combustion due to insufficient amount of Air (Oxygen) required for burning the fuel completely.

Usually the smoke trail becomes visible during acceleration and when the after burner is ignited.

Designing aero engines present complex task of finding an optimum combination of over all pressure ratio, fan pressure ratio, by pass ratio and turbine inlet temperature that would maximize overall efficiency as well as produce maximum thrust for a given size of the engine.

Bypass ratio represents the ratio of flow of air by passing the engine compared to the mass of air passing thru the engine core. Theoretically, increasing the amount of air thru the engine will produce more power and less smoke. However another constraint is the shape & size of the air take; a bigger capture area would increase ‘spill drag’ (spillage of the air outside instead of conducting the air into the compressor face). This also explains why designing a high efficiency & high thrust engine is limited to only a few nations.

Understand RD-33 /RD-93 engine has an overall pressure ratio of 21:1, bypass ratio of 0.49 :1 and turbine inlet temperature of1,407 Deg C. This is probably the optimum combination providing maximum thrust for the size of the engine. Therefore, in my humble opinion, smoke in RD-33 & RD-93 engines especially at higher thrust is an inherent design problem and one simply has to live with it.

P.S. I am not an aero-engine specialist, I gained basic knowledge about aero engines during my visits to the Rolls Royce aero-engine repair & test bed labs during my East Kilbride days. Therefore I would hope that hard core aero- engineers would overlook inconsistencies in the above post.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Any HD version of the clip?

 

[Viking 63]

This Aircraft is too boxy and heavy to be a true Fighter. Maybe used as a dedicated bomber.

 

[My-Analogous]

The ultimate JF-17 Video.

https://www.facebook.com/

@Taimoor Khan @Hodor @HRK @Oscar @Knuckles @MastanKhan

why these videos is not working in Firefox?. @MOD please check this error

 

[CriticalThought]

Per @messiach direct Russian input has gone into removing smoke from Thunders. Which is why we saw smokeless Thunder during 23 March flypast. There is a real difference.

 

[Imran Khan]

ohhh lala ma ma miyaaaaaaa

 

[Khafee]

why these videos is not working in Firefox?. @MOD please check this error

Dear, there is no @MOD, you have to specifically tag one of the respected mods.

The reason it is not showing in Firefox, is because your privacy settings is not allowing it.

Per @messiach direct Russian input has gone into removing smoke from Thunders. Which is why we saw smokeless Thunder during 23 March flypast. There is a real difference.

Russian? I thought PAC managed to fine tune the engine on their own, and dealt with the smoke issue, as well as MTBO increase. @Windjammer ?

 

[Thorough Pro]

Is there a full HD youtube version of this vid?

why these videos is not working in Firefox?. @MOD please check this error

 

[CriticalThought]

Dear, there is no @MOD, you have to specifically tag one of the respected mods.

The reason it is not showing in Firefox, is because your privacy settings is not allowing it.


Russian? I thought PAC managed to fine tune the engine on their own, and dealt with the smoke issue, as well as MTBO increase. @Windjammer ?

In the words of @messiach

Thank your Lord and Putin's Russia.