Thunder Bravo Shows It's Claws

[HRK]

In one thread, airomerix said that on 27 Feb PAF used 2× AESA-equipped JF-17s (loaded with SD-10As) as EW / ECM assets against Indian ground-based radars.

I wonder if these were JF-17Bs since the enlarged nose section would accommodate the liquid-cooled AESA and not that of the JF-17A (Blk 1/2).


* I assume Chinese liquid-cooled AESA due to (i) loadout of SD-10A's, and (ii) internet rumours that the PAF had selected some 'high spec' AESA and not the Chinese air-cooled one.

I would not rule out the possibility as previously in one of my post I have noted that we had at least 2 JF-17B available with us secondly to select an AESA radar it is logical to test the system in Pakistan and what could be a more appropriate environment than an actual combat operation .... but the issue is none of the JF-17B were officially part of PAF fleet at that time as per open source information, so my understanding [which have higher chances of going wrong] is Even if they were flying that day with AESA they were acting just as testbed not as official participant of the operation ....

@airomerix , @Tps43 can any of you comment about this interesting possibility raised by our friend Gryphon ....

I think Bravo can be added with AESA radar, that definitely gives it a big punch.

As per official video about LKF-601e its possible even with previous blocks of JF-17

 

[StormBreaker]

I would not rule out the possibility as previously in one of my post I have noted that we had at least 2 JF-17B available with us secondly to select an AESA radar it is logical to test the system in Pakistan and what could be a more appropriate environment than an actual combat operation .... but the issue is none of the JF-17B were officially part of PAF fleet at that time as per open source information, so my understanding [which have higher chances of going wrong] is Even if they were flying that day with AESA they were acting just as testbed not as official participant of the operation ....

@airomerix , @Tps43 can any of you comment about this interesting possibility raised by our friend Gryphon ....


As per official video about LKF-601e its possible even with previous blocks of JF-17

I would like to add up one more thing, IAF pilots have been under training on rafale for sometime and they will be inducted in april. It is only logical to say that PAF as well is busy riding AESA platforms, could be in the shape of Bravo or even Alpha

 

[HRK]

I was traversing some old threads - it is said these two are camera pods.

and why would a Single fighter plane would carry two Camera pods inside Kamra and that too when it was only wearing yellow primer .... ??

@Deino assumption does not answer this .... though at that time I too accepted his notion about those attachments as camera pod but the issue is we can not reject one assumption on the basis of another assumption ...

 

[Deino]

JF-17B commissioned recently displays it's lethal capability armed with Rounds of SD-10 BVR Missiles.

But this is not a commissioned PAF bravo, but a factory owned prototype/ trst aurcraft.

By the way, happy New Year to all.

 

[blain2]

no one here on this forum can answer your questions with certainty. the closest answer you may get is from PAC marketing material or press release or the interview from the Air chief and that too can change.
best we can do is guess
and it is that it will be for specialized combat roles but that wont mean that they wont ever be used as trainers.
the Idea of JF17 was that any experienced fighter pilot can easily transition to this jet after familiarizing with its simulator hence PAF managed to fly this jet for years without a duel seat trainer and may continue to do so (not need a trainer) but again there is no restriction.

However we can deduce a lot from where things are. PAF does NOT need a 2 seater for its air crew training. As you have said, over the past decade, PAF has put a lot of emphasis on simulators to take on the overall responsibility of getting its own pilots ready for solo sorties on the JF-17. The automation, processes and training has been adequate because the conversion to JF-17 has gone quite well with new pilots converting over to the platform without any problems however from an export standpoint, not all perspective buyers are in the same boat.

Thus very clearly the purpose of JF-17B induction in the PAF is not for training purposes. The two reasons in my mind are and as other members have also alluded:

a) A mission specific requirement which allows PAF to use the aircraft in precision, surface attack and ELINT/EW roles. Endurance with B version was a question earlier, but with IFR and alternate plumbing within the airframe of the JF-17B, it seems PAF is no longer hampered by this consideration.
b) Standing up the infrastructure and an operational inventory within the PAF for other perspective buyers to get onboard the JF-17 program knowing that both A/B versions are operational with an active user.

 

[Windjammer]

But this is not a commissioned PAF bravo, but a factory owned prototype/ trst aurcraft.

By the way, happy New Year to all.

This particular aircraft maybe not but it's not too difficult to comprehend that THE BRAVO has been commissioned into the PAF.....and it's not unusual for an airframe to be kept back as a weapon or instrument test platform.
Not sure what you are trying to prove here.

 

[Gryphon]

and why would a Single fighter plane would carry two Camera pods inside Kamra and that too when it was only wearing yellow primer .... ??

@Deino assumption does not answer this .... though at that time I too accepted his notion about those attachments as camera pod but the issue is we can not reject one assumption on the basis of another assumption ...

That is exactly what I thought before reading those comments. Thanks for the correction.
I will stick with the Indra EW pods assumption.

 

[HRK]

Not sure what you are trying to prove here.

I believe he is not trying to prove anything here but just sharing the info he have about the particular airframe .... so just note it, it may be useful for any other development related to JF-17 program ....

 

[Deino]

This particular aircraft maybe not but it's not too difficult to comprehend that THE BRAVO has been commissioned into the PAF.....and it's not unusual for an airframe to be kept back as a weapon or instrument test platform.
Not sure what you are trying to prove here.

That it is the second aircraft; IMO even an older image but only recently released by that well-known photographer.

IMO it is a regular habit that these prototypes were tested first at CAC also with different weapon loads. We all remember the JF-17 no. 04 prototype carrying different AShMs and AAMs configurations at CAC long before they were transferred to Pakistan.

 

[MastanKhan]

can someone please reply to my queries regarding Bravo. Thanks in advance.

Does Pakistan intend to use Bravos as trainers like Myanmar or just strike/specialized role only? (as they didn't want a trainer version originally)

In normal (other than training) missions does weapons officer have any veto over pilots judgment or pilot has the sole ownership of mission and weapons officer is just to assist?

Hi,

That is a very good question.

The Paf will use them in all the roles that a twin seater plays in---be it training fresh pakistani pilots---foreign pilots---strike role---grolwer role---etc etc etc.

It is like when you get an asset---you will use it in all formats

As for veto power---interesting question---they both are a team---trained to think and act alike---.

Now think about this scenario---. A Flt Lt is the pilot and the back seater---the electronics officer a Sqdrn Ldr or a Wing Commander---what would happen then. It is very simple---it is the Pilot's aircraft---. It is always The Pilot's aircraft---even if the ACM is sitting in the back seat---.

 

[ARMalik]

However we can deduce a lot from where things are. PAF does NOT need a 2 seater for its air crew training. As you have said, over the past decade, PAF has put a lot of emphasis on simulators to take on the overall responsibility of getting its own pilots ready for solo sorties on the JF-17. The automation, processes and training has been adequate because the conversion to JF-17 has gone quite well with new pilots converting over to the platform without any problems however from an export standpoint, not all perspective buyers are in the same boat.

Thus very clearly the purpose of JF-17B induction in the PAF is not for training purposes. The two reasons in my mind are and as other members have also alluded:

a) A mission specific requirement which allows PAF to use the aircraft in precision, surface attack and ELINT/EW roles. Endurance with B version was a question earlier, but with IFR and alternate plumbing within the airframe of the JF-17B, it seems PAF is no longer hampered by this consideration.
b) Standing up the infrastructure and an operational inventory within the PAF for other perspective buyers to get onboard the JF-17 program knowing that both A/B versions are operational with an active user.

Interestingly, these simulators are also being used to integrate and test weapons, even before any weapon actually gets to be carried by a JF-17.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

My spin on the Bravo version, the same role that two seater mirages were doing. After all these aircraft are going to replace both the F-7's and the various versions of Mirages.

The two seater Mirage has a specific role to play in strategic strike capability of PAF.

 

[Dazzler]

That is exactly what I thought before reading those comments. Thanks for the correction.
I will stick with the Indra EW pods assumption.

Those were AWC EW pods being tested confirmed by a source. Interestingly, they were never seen again but work continues.

 

[Falcon26]

With the twin seater JF-17 officially inducted, is the PAF ACM going to swap his F-16B/D rides on 23rd March for the JF-17B?

 

[aliyusuf]

With the twin seater JF-17 officially inducted, is the PAF ACM going to swap his F-16B/D rides on 23rd March for the JF-17B?

Only if it's housing an AESA radar I guess.