Thousands rally in Lahore over blasphemy law

[mehru]

We will always try to be your friend. As I have indicated many times, we are indeed worried that those mullahs will not be our friend any more if they take power and later provide all kinds of assistance to those islam separatists/extremists/terrorists in our western region. In that sense, we have no interest to be mullah's friend at all. Indeed they have already trained them and provide all kind of weapons to them. If they take the power of a country, they can do much more to stir the pot. Especially Pakistan is a nuclear country.

From China side, Pakistan has nothing remotely close to that to worry about at all.

At least, we are not that worried during President Musharraf era.

They can't take the power of country. Many outsiders don't understand this thing that religious parties like JUI have never done well in elections. So rest assured it won't happen. If you are interested, you could read about them.

Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Don't worry about terrorists. Our intelligence and army is doing everything to root out Chinese rebels in our country. Keep in mind that Pakistan can go to any length to save it's relationship with China.

 

[Xestan]

I always thought Pakistan is a secular country like Turkey or at least close to a secular country. Indeed your highest leader is the president, not some mullah or religious leaders like that in Iran.

Bro, Pakistan IS NOT A SECULAR country

Muslim world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Check the list, Turkey is a secular country, Pakistan is a ISLAMIC State

So that's the reason I said, we respect your constitution, you should respect ours simple!

Our highest leader is President but he himself can't act against any Islamic law, that's written in our constitution.

 

[ephone]

The boy will not punished considering he is not an adult however he may face trial. Though this law was enacted for the protection of Religious figures but it's misuse has resulted in such sad situations. There is opposition to this law but right wing pressurized Govt to not to touch the law. Even right now Govt is trying to gain some middle ground. Let's see what happens.

Pakistan is neither secular nor conservative. We are close to moderate but there is a danger to go to extremist side.

I don't claim that Pakistan is treating it's women well but attempts are made in this regard. Pakistani women still enjoys more liberty than many Muslim and middle eastern countries.

Women in Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for the women of Iran, there are two views. Some think Islamic revolution of Iran helped them. Other people think that it has marginalized them. Iran is Conservative by nature but still their Govt cares for the welfare of their people and their people have prospered. Only Iranian women could tell better.

Women's rights movement in Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When religious mullahs have such power over state, that is what I have cautioned that mixing religion and state is disastrous.

 

[ephone]

They can't take the power of country. Many outsiders don't understand this thing that religious parties like JUI have never done well in elections. So rest assured it won't happen. If you are interested, you could read about them.

Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Don't worry about terrorists. Our intelligence and army is doing everything to root out Chinese rebels in our country. Keep in mind that Pakistan can go to any length to save it's relationship with China.

You are a truly friend of China. We do have enormous mutual respect.

 

[ephone]

Bro, Pakistan IS NOT A SECULAR country

Muslim world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Check the list, Turkey is a secular country, Pakistan is a ISLAMIC State

So that's the reason I said, we respect your constitution, you should respect ours simple!

Our highest leader is President but he himself can't act against any Islamic law, that's written in our constitution.

Does Pakistan constitution allow those brutal "honor killing" or other unspeakable brutal acts in those tribal areas or some part of Pakistan we have read about???

How could Pakistan allow those Tribal elders/mullahs to have so much powers? Where are the state's presence, e.g. police, court, army and civilian administration?

Pakistan has been independence even longer than China. Why is it still impossible to have its state power everywhere in Pakistan?

 

[Xestan]

Does Pakistan constitution allow those brutal "honor killing" or other unspeakable brutal acts in those tribal areas or some part of Pakistan we have read about???

How could Pakistan allow those Tribal elders/mullahs to have so much powers? Where are the state's presence, e.g. police, court, army and civilian administration?

Pakistan has been independence even longer than China. Why is it still impossible to have its state power everywhere in Pakistan?

We are workin on that man

you know of Swat? It has been cleared by these anti-State elements, Tribal Areas are so remote, still efforts are underway..

 

[mehru]

Does Pakistan constitution allow those brutal "honor killing" or other unspeakable brutal acts in those tribal areas or some part of Pakistan we have read about???

How could Pakistan allow those Tribal elders/mullahs to have so much powers? Where are the state's presence, e.g. police, court, army and civilian administration?

Pakistan has been independence even longer than China. Why is it still impossible to have its state power everywhere in Pakistan?

You are talking about FATA. First read it's history then i will explain.

The region(FATA) was annexed in the 19th century during the British colonial period, and though the British never succeeded in completely calming unrest in the region, it afforded them some protection from Afghanistan. The British Raj attempted to control the population of the annexed tribal regions with the Frontier Crimes Regulations (FCR), which allowed considerable power to govern to local nobles so long as these nobles were willing to meet the needs of the British. Due to the unchecked discretionary power placed into the hands of the jirga put into place by these nobles and to the human rights violations that ensued, the FCR has come to be known as the "black law." The annexed areas continued under the same governance after the Partition of India, through the Dominion of Pakistan in 1946 and into the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in 1956.[

Pakistan allowed them autonomy as this was their condition to join. They were like this for centuries. They are a bit disconnected from the rest of Pakistan. Point was that they could live as they want but they will not do anything against the state. They are considered our unpaid army. Tribals are loyal people and defended Pakistan western border. This strategy worked for a long time till 2001.

When NATO attacked Afghanistan, taliban infiltrated FATA because of the porous border and also because tribals had connections with them. Tribals gave them refuge. It was their biggest blunder. Taliban however later turned their guns towards tribals and started killing them. As a result tribals joined Pak army to flush these militants out. They are fighting this war even today. So far Pak army has successfully flushed out these militants from 70% of FATA. Still the war is on.

You could read detail at Wikipedia
Federally Administered Tribal Areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Those brutal acts in FATA that you read were carried out by taliban and they target tribals. Tribals are very nice people. Poor, a bit conservative but very friendly and hospitable. It was their hospitable nature that taliban used for their advantage. They have suffered the most in this war. However i hope that future will bring something better for them.

 

[mehru]

When religious mullahs have such power over state, that is what I have cautioned that mixing religion and state is disastrous.

I won't call it power. They have street power. It's what you call political blackmail which they use. They show they have a big following but actually it's their supporters who normally come out on streets. None listen to them normally but issue of blasphemy law is a bit complicated. You can't expect anything better form JUI or MMA but unfortunately moderate scholars didn't even support Govt on this issue. Political parties also refused to join the Govt's call to amend the law. Public either don't care or they think that it's against Islam to amend the law. So you see Govt is in minority.

As a result any effort to amend this law ended for the time being. However, the issue has not settled. People who are against this law are trying to develop consensus through mass media. It will take sometime. Right now Pakistan is facing a lot of crisis that's why Govt and even those people who are against this law has left this issue for the time being as there are more important things that need attention. Govt is in no mood to agitate people more and frankly without public support it's an invitation to chaos. When the things will settle down perhaps this issue will be talked again. Perhaps when people will start thinking logically rather than through emotions. Cheers!

 

[ephone]

I believe that tribal people are hospitable people. In china, even in many rural and poor minority regions, people are very hospitable.

However, I think in the long run, Pakistan need a better control of those regions and have them integrated into the whole Pakistan. At least, you can make those areas more economical developed.

We did the same thing to Tibet, XinJiang and vast areas of southwestern China where many minority lived. Some tribes there were even under slavery system when we entered there. Now most places are much better. Even Tibet, when we entered there, it is still under slavery-system-like control where most Tibetans are serfs while all the wealth is controlled by the Dalai Lama and his monks.

Of course, bringing changes to those areas will definitely make some people unhappy. In our case, those Tibetan "mullahs" which are Dalai Lama and his monks lost all the control over those serfs and they had a rebellion and got crashed.

I bet same thing will happen in those areas as well in Pakistan. However, in the long run, it will be in Pakistan's interest to have it under total control of Central Government. It is also Pakistan's responsibility as well. At least, Pakistan consider those areas inseparable areas of Pakistan.

 

[ephone]

I won't call it power. They have street power. It's what you call political blackmail which they use. They show they have a big following but actually it's their supporters who normally come out on streets. None listen to them normally but issue of blasphemy law is a bit complicated. You can't expect anything better form JUI or MMA but unfortunately moderate scholars didn't even support Govt on this issue. Political parties also refused to join the Govt's call to amend the law. Public either don't care or they think that it's against Islam to amend the law. So you see Govt is in minority.

As a result any effort to amend this law ended for the time being. However, the issue has not settled. People who are against this law are trying to develop consensus through mass media. It will take sometime. Right now Pakistan is facing a lot of crisis that's why Govt and even those people who are against this law has left this issue for the time being as there are more important things that need attention. Govt is in no mood to agitate people more and frankly without public support it's an invitation to chaos. When the things will settle down perhaps this issue will be talked again. Perhaps when people will start thinking logically rather than through emotions. Cheers!

Your analysis is very logical. I hope everything will be for the better.

 

[mehru]

I believe that tribal people are hospitable people. In china, even in many rural and poor minority regions, people are very hospitable.

However, I think in the long run, Pakistan need a better control of those regions and have them integrated into the whole Pakistan. At least, you can make those areas more economical developed.

We did the same thing to Tibet, XinJiang and vast areas of southwestern China where many minority lived. Some tribes there were even under slavery system when we entered there. Now most places are much better. Even Tibet, when we entered there, it is still under slavery-system-like control where most Tibetans are serfs while all the wealth is controlled by the Dalai Lama and his monks.

Of course, bringing changes to those areas will definitely make some people unhappy. In our case, those Tibetan "mullahs" which are Dalai Lama and his monks lost all the control over those serfs and they had a rebellion and got crashed.

I bet same thing will happen in those areas as well in Pakistan. However, in the long run, it will be in Pakistan's interest to have it under total control of Central Government. It is also Pakistan's responsibility as well. At least, Pakistan consider those areas inseparable areas of Pakistan.

Yeah we are trying to do just that. All effort are right now diverted to clear the area from militants and develop those regions economically. To abolish old systems and to integrate them in the mainstream Pakistan.

 

[ephone]

It is quite refreshing to know we indeed have quite some Muslim friends who talk logically and have common sense in most issues related religion and state.

I am not a Muslim and definitely won't be a Muslim in the future, like most Chinese. However, I do have respect for all religions. I know Muslim through my classmates (In China and in US) who are. They are no way close to what I see or read in some part of the world.

I support separation of religion and state. I am against any type of violence in religion disguise no matter how much you want to beautify it.

Whatever religious clothes or symbol you want to wear while praying at home, it it your personal freedom. However, in public, none should use his/her religion to attack any other people who have a different one. Religion attachment (conversion into) or detachment (conversion out of) should be personal choice which should never be under any violent threat or suffer any violent consequence. Anyone who initiated such violent acts should be seriously punished so as none will conduct them anymore in the future.

Any people of any religion cannot force others to wear or not to wear religious clothes anywhere.

Anyway, we need a strong enforcement to make sure everyone's right is protected.