Thought-provoking article on fall of Daka

[KRAIT]

TTP and other violent groups seem to be a result of our GCC imported version of madaaris and the easy availabilty of drugs and guns in Pakistan. Plus our close-mindedness on a lot of issues makes us blind to everything except that which we want to seee. Armed and narrow-minded --> social TNT Still... how do we go about improving our society? Any suggestions?

Put religion in place where it belongs. Not let it seep into Politics any more. Take hard steps against extremists if they cross the line and gradually decrease their influence on the masses.

Have practical solutions in changing the entire political leader spectrum rather than a Messiah to save the nation.

Govt. funded awareness programs and call for volunteers for causing awareness among people about family planning, disease prevention and importance of education.

Depoliticize Investigative agencies, security forces and Judiciary. Strict quality checking of people and product. Don't let fake medicine makers, water car engineer frauds to go easily, rather make example of them.

Instill confidence in entrepreneurship, innovative businesses and trade friendly policies. Make best use of allies by asking them to invest in skill building and education. Research and development to be focused.

Once you give many options to people, they pick the stable and safe one.

 

[RazorMC]

1. Feudalism well its the root cause why nawabs of bengal & UP wanted pakistan and the poor muslims of east bengal had a totalli diff ideology ...

2.Well most of the Indian Muslim elite almost 90% went to Pakistan ...
...

Point 1 and 2 are interconnected IMO. Powerful individuals wanted to hold onto their power (granted to them by their ancestors or the British govt) and found the new democratic setup unacceptable.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Point 1 and 2 are interconnected IMO. Powerful individuals wanted to hold onto their power (granted to them by their ancestors or the British govt) and found the new democratic setup unacceptable.

And Thats the root cuase of all the problems Pakistan faces today ....as hassan nisar often says ya to kuch chand hazar Khandaan Bacha lo fir Pakistan

 

[RazorMC]

@KRAIT , wonderful post.

You've actually pinpointed the main causes of all evils prevalent here, esp the part about Messiah. We've stopped working on problems and started waiting for the Chosen One to somehow solve everything on day one. And if (God forbid) he fails, then only God can save him from the public that will have demonized him.

It's not the people in charge who are functional or not, it's the darn system that should work. The US, UK, India and every other nation that has seen success has a functioning system installed. Faces change but the progress continues. Our instititutions are in shambles and we expect the Lord of the Rings to turn us into a prosperous country overnight.

But we won't change anytime soon. We parted ways with Bangladesh and still haven't learnt much.

 

[KRAIT]

@haviZsultan Inspite of our indifference of opinion, I really liked your article. Impressive story telling.

If i may suggest, kindly write about how the patriotism of a Pakistani judged in present society and what should be the criteria ?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

@Capt.Popeye , tolerance need not be enforced by anyone (incl. the government). Inolerance itself stems from making judgement about others based on personal beliefs and opinions (whether right or wrong).

If there was a way to somehow teach people to suppress these judgements, esp from an early age (kindergarten), and disapprove of children making remarks about others, I'm certain we can drastically reduce intolerance in the next two or three generations.

What you are speaking about is "Value Education" or attempting to instill values. While it is a great idea, but in the existing sociological conditions in South Asia it will be a painfully slow (though eventually lasting) process.

Let us take ourselves back to 1947. The South Asia or Indian subcontinent of that time was far worse off in every respect; especially in terms of education and awareness. To speak like you do here; was foolish at that time. Hence the Indian founding fathers decided to lay emphasis on both Education and Tolerance (forced if you will) to make the society conform to the requirements of Statehood as rapidly as possible.
Sometimes (unfortunately) Tolerance has to be enforced by the Govt. The South Asian milieu is as I said earlier, a prime example of a situation where such measures HAVE to be undertaken.

Ironically, Pakistan is still grappling with 1947-era problems. Don't you find that a tragic anachronism, after 6+ decades?

 

[livingdead]

@KRAIT , wonderful post.

You've actually pinpointed the main causes of all evils prevalent here, esp the part about Messiah. We've stopped working on problems and started waiting for the Chosen One to somehow solve everything on day one. And if (God forbid) he fails, then only God can save him from the public that will have demonized him.

It's not the people in charge who are functional or not, it's the darn system that should work. The US, UK, India and every other nation that has seen success has a functioning system installed. Faces change but the progress continues. Our instititutions are in shambles and we expect the Lord of the Rings to turn us into a prosperous country overnight.

But we won't change anytime soon. We parted ways with Bangladesh and still haven't learnt much.

system is build by people. And UK/USA systems were not build in 60 years. Nation building takes time.
First thing is you need to find out what you want to be. And then learn from others who follow similar system, adopt best practices from others.

You dont need to go through french revolution to get democracy, learn lesson from other's experience, its cheaper.

And I think pakistan did a more or less good job what she wanted to achieve. She wanted to be a islamic modern democracy with socialist values, and thats more or less she is.

 

[RazorMC]

...Ironically, Pakistan is still grappling with 1947-era problems. Don't you find that a tragic anachronism, after 6+ decades?

We had enough capable people to hande the problems back then. The result was an impressive growth in economic, social and military terms. It is only in the last 3-4 decades that we have started to forget our initial values and beliefs and muddled them with imported ideas of how we should have been doing things.

Gone are memories of our founding fathers, to be replaced with those of impressive Kandoura-clad gentlemen in obvious opulence, adorned with the usurped jewels of Islam.

...
And I think pakistan did a more or less good job what she wanted to achieve. She wanted to be a islamic modern democracy with socialist values, and thats more or less she is.

I don't believe that Pakistan was envisioned with a socialist approach in mind. Socialism had clearly lost fans even back then. Bhuttos are the exception to this though, preferring state control wherever prossible.

 

[Voxx]

well it's hard for Pakistan now , religion is root of their problem until they notice it , they won't change , slowly Pakistan will move towards talibani rule , slowly slowly rural areas of Pakistan will be controlled by talibanis , Army will loose political will to remove them. except araban areas talibani will create their own parallel system according to real islam.

 

[neehar]

a suggestion..i think the tittle should be 'rise of dhaka'

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

It was not that complicated if we had Helicopters and strong navy , in Bangladesh we would have been fine You can`t have a army , cornered due to helicopters dropping troops behind lines

We had a weakness and we paid for it

Rest is all bull , as Bangladesh has not done much since their `FREEDOM`
same issues , same low wages , same low presence in international politics

The bottom line is , we did not had ample defenses or supplies route to Bangladesh so we lost that battle

If we had 2-3 Tactical Nukes in Dakka I am sure , no one would take a leaf

 

[Capt.Popeye]

We had enough capable people to hande the problems back then. The result was an impressive growth in economic, social and military terms. It is only in the last 3-4 decades that we have started to forget our initial values and beliefs and muddled them with imported ideas of how we should have been doing things.

Gone are memories of our founding fathers, to be replaced with those of impressive Kandoura-clad gentlemen in obvious opulence, adorned with the usurped jewels of Islam.




I don't believe that Pakistan was envisioned with a socialist approach in mind. Socialism had clearly lost fans even back then. Bhuttos are the exception to this though, preferring state control wherever prossible.

I am inclined to agree with both your ponts above. However the day that Pakistan overlooked (actually turned its back on) Jinnah saab's vision; that was the beginning of the decline. Forgive me for being discordant; but that started much earlier than 3-4 decades ago. The social slide I mean. Actually the social growth process never really took off, while the economic growth of the 60s masked that fact to quite a large extent. But Mr Bhutto deserves the large part of the blame for tinkering with the Social fabric of Pakistan. Which Zia ul Haq perfected. Now the chickens are coming home to roost.

Bhuttos "Socialistic Sins" in comparison are quite insignificant, in the sense that they can be more easily undone: IF one wishes to.
The real tragedy is that British Aristocracy at the helm of matters simply passed on the baton to a Pakistani Aristocracy (Pakistani Feudals/Military). Pakistanis never really ever experienced the power of Democracy. Ironically, it is now that they seem to be closest to it!
But the Democratic system created in Pakistan is so dysfunctional that People are again willing to abandon it in favor of handing over the helm to the Aristocracy (the Army) all over again.

A Tragedy to be again revisited; is'nt it?

 

[RazorMC]

^^ Yes, acutally. The general public opinion in Pakistan is still favourable to democracy, but there is a growing segment that would welcome military rule with open arms. The military is supposed to be some kind of miraculous answer to all problems even though its style of command and control does not work with a civilian society.

 

[illusion8]

It was not that complicated if we had Helicopters and strong navy , in Bangladesh we would have been fine You can`t have a army , cornered due to helicopters dropping troops behind lines

We had a weakness and we paid for it

Rest is all bull , as Bangladesh has not done much since their `FREEDOM`
same issues , same low wages , same low presence in international politics

The bottom line is , we did not had ample defenses or supplies route to Bangladesh so we lost that battle

If we had 2-3 Tactical Nukes in Dakka I am sure , no one would take a leaf

Nukes cannot save a nation from breaking or help in developing - policies will, it was not India that broke Pakistan - well not exactly - it was the wrong policies. There are multiple secession movements in Pakistan - having nukes will not stop it, the right policies will.
@RazorMC, as you rightly said - people change but the system does not collapse and the development continues - the actual reverse has been happening in Pakistan - Individuals have been changing Pakistan for better or for worse and still people hold on to the hope of that magical person who will change the future. This charismatic magical person does not exist because absolute power corrupts - its the people of Pakistan who must bring in change similar to what's happening right now in Bangladesh. You need an entirely new constitution which keeps the power with the people and not with the Army or the GHQ for some individuals - why not start off by devolving power to the jagirdaars - people need to fuel a revolution.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

^^ Yes, acutally. The general public opinion in Pakistan is still favourable to democracy, but there is a growing segment that would welcome military rule with open arms. The military is supposed to be some kind of miraculous answer to all problems even though its style of command and control does not work with a civilian society.

Please excuse me for my views. Especially if they seem unpleasant or disagreeable to you. No Military (not even the Pakistani Military or even the Indian Military) can EVER RUN a country. It is neither part of their training nor should it even be part of their mandate.

Even the Judiciary cannot run a country. Let me say that the Indian Judiciary is reasonably competent and mature. But the day they try to run India, then India will be doomed.

Only representatives of the people can run the country. If they are incompetent or dishonest; they can be kicked out of power! That is the greatest weapon that even a "Paindoo in a Pagri" has. What an incredible power!

Can he ever do that to the Military?